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Alston Cobourn 0:00
All right, well, it's a good time I started. So Hi, I'm Alston Cobourn. I'm the university archivist at Joyner library. And today, we're really excited to have Mr. Mickey Elmore come and show us how to use this Edison standard phonograph with some of his cylinder recordings. And he's gonna talk a little bit about some of the differences in

the different types of recordings over time, the different players and sort of how he got into collecting these materials and his his interest in that, as well as anything else you decide to you'd like to share with us. So I will also mention on the third floor, down below, right below us. In the North Carolina legend room, we have an exhibit that's going to be up through the middle of July, about the history of commercial sound recording, so covering from, you know, cylinders to present day with digital meeting media. So that'll be there for everyone to look at. And without further ado, I'm just going to pass it off to Mickey. Hello.

Mickey Elmore 1:15
I grew up on a farm outside of Kinston few miles. And we had a wind up record player in our house. And I played it all the time until I broke the spring. My dad couldn't fix it. So that put an end to that. We move to town something like 1955. And in 1960, I remember seeing a cylinder record player, old television and was curious, it was the how it worked. about that same time. I was in an antique shop that I used to visit a lot in Kinston, which is sort of across the vernal Park Mall. And some kids came in there one day wanting to sell some Edison disc records. And the Edison, the antique dealer wasn't interested but I had never heard of such a thing. So I was really interested in it bought um. I think I bought about a dozen of them for $1 and asked him where they had gotten them. And they said from day grandmother, Ms. Elle Eason in Snow Hill. And the antique dealer was a friend of mine. So he went with me to Snow Hill and we looked up Ms. Eason. And she had the record player that had come with those records. And I bought it for swapping $10. They they sell from anywhere from 300 to $1,000. Nowadays, there's like it I forget the order of things, but I visited their parents, the children's parents and bought some more of the records. I brought it back to my house and Kinston and set it up and started playing the records and I've been at it ever since I've been at it since about 1960 or 61. On another trip with Mr. Brock, the antique dealer, we went to boons antiques in Wilson. At that time, they were a full range, antique dealer, not just very early furniture like they do now. And they had some innocent phonographs. And there was one of them. I thought I might be able to go afford. It was $6 and a half. But I didn't buy it right then. And later that day, Mr. Brock and I went to a jewelry shop in Rocky Mount. And they had a Edison cylinder phonograph that they were evidently been trying to repair for somebody and they had it on the counter and played it for me. And later that afternoon, we went back to Wilson and I decided I could afford that Edison cylinder record players so I bought it. When I looked at it that morning that told me the price was $6 and a half when we went back and bought and it was $7 I should have known how things should go. But I got it home I found out I was missing some parts. And I was subscribed hobbies magazine, which was a big collector's magazine at that time and found a record player dealer out in California and he supplied me with the parts and it worked out

um, I might also mention Boon's antiques and Wilson heads Some cylinder records for sale, they were 20 cents apiece, they've gone up

my second machine, I think it was, was an Edison fireside machine, which is a little smaller than this. And a dealer here in Greenville had it. But it wasn't for sale, somebody else had already bought it. And I talked to the dealer and he said, the person who has bought that machine bought it hoping to get enough parts to fix a another machine that he had already bought. And asked me if I can take the two and make one. I took the two and examine them and found the all was needed was a governor for the Edison standard machine that he needed. So I bought it from that same dealer in California for three and a half and had my second record player.

I acquired several more machines over the years and I now have 25 or 30 machines, most of which work. Among my earliest machines, is a graph-o-phone type A from about 1897 or 1898 and a graph-o-phone type AT which is about the same same period and earlier version of the Edison standard phonograph from about 1898 that the model A came in three different versions I have both the second version, which had a square with top and a third version, which was my first machine which has a top like this

among my scarecer machines, there is an Edison long play phonograph, which is disc machine from about 1926. And instead of playing about 100 grooves to the inch like standard Edison diamond discs play it has 450 grooves to the inch they're smaller finer grooves then modern LPs and I bought that in Richmond Virginia and somebody had tried to play the records with with the regular diamond disc needle so it ruined every record that was with it. Another machines that I have is a graph-o-phone type AB, no AG, which plays a five inch diameter cylinder instead of the two inch that these are and they came out about 1898. And were on the market for about five years. Also have a graph-o-phone which is Colombia and graph-o-phone are basically the same thing. Colombia made the records and graph-o-phone made the machines and it will play a six inch long cylinder of the same diameter. So they are very scarce them and they made about two or three years and they didn't catch on

I might mentioned in Edison started making disc records in 1912. But instead of needle vibrating back and forth in the groove, like a victor or Columbia record does, they vibrate up and down in the groove like the cylinders do. And he did a lot of experimentation. And beginning about 1915 The Edison company would hire an artist to go to some one on one town in the country. They did it right here in Greenville, at old Austin building and they would put a the best model of the Edison disc machine on the stage and had artists stand beside it. And turn out the lights and have the art have the audience try to guess whether it was the machine or the living artist, and they fooled a lot of people because, nobody could tell. One of the reasons that Mr. Edison's diamond disc machines were so true to life was that he used what's called a dead studio technique. Everything that came out of the record was was just what came out of the artist. He didn't do any reflections from the walls of the studio. Victor, for example, or Colombia, use reverberations from the room, and that makes a lot livelier sound. I might also mentioned that all of these cylinders here were recorded acoustically, they just shouted into the recording horn, there was no electricity about it. Now one thing I might mention is that everybody seems to call an antique record player and Victrola. It wasn't a Victrola unless it was made by the Victor Talking Machine Company in Camden, New Jersey. If it was a phonograph, originally, it was an Edison. If it was a graph-o-phone. It was made by a Columbia graph-o-phone company in Connecticut. And the terms are not interchangeable, suppose they are our days. There were three major companies at that time, Edison, Victor and Columbia. Edison kept making record musical record players until 1929. And just about the time of the stock market crash, he went out of musical phonograph business, he still made dictating machines called Ediphone. If it's a Dictaphone it is not an Edison product it was related to the Columbia Phonograph Company. You've probably heard enough of me talking about that stuff. So lets play a little bit.

I might mention there are two kinds of standard size record players records. There's a two minute and a four minute. The two minute cylinders have 100 grooves to the inch, which is what this one has. And the four minute records have 200 grooves to the inch. And there were machines made about 1908 that could play both kinds. And this was one of them. This machine came on the market about 1909.

The early records were announced at the beginning so I think this is one that will tell you what it is and who sang it.

This record was made by the Edison Bell Phonograph Company in England. Edison and Bell sort of combined forces in England and carry both names the Columbia Phonograph Company was basically founded by Alexander Graham Bell and some of his buddies that's where the Bell came from. One of the things that was real popular about 1905 or 1910 was Uncle Josh rural humor and here's a sample of that

Cylinder recording 16:31
revenue arrival in New York City My name is pick out and it's on my power we had a good time and get married in New York City back calculate the every year I was a kid and for many years and I had a ticket in my hand I poked my head out the window and looked at him and when they made me run I had two backups they did the right one but they don't know anything about it and when he finds it out, me the Madison Pennsylvania Railroad back down around bigger than I do going back Rob does seem to me like that was about the slowest train I ever made I can find stuff in every house when it got to that price but I got off the boat down here they were waiting to meet me and I remember I was about to pass up in just a minute maybe maybe all right I didn't know where I was because I never in my life didn't write about it anymore. I'm gonna hurry I want to get up there where we started out when we were in the iron supply. This ain't your whole family as you can tell some of the records of those names are not real politically correct.

Mickey Elmore 19:01
One type of record that was really popular in the first few years of the century was banjo records because they recorded real well think this was one of the first cyliner records I ever had.

Those other records I just played were made out of wax, which isn't really a wax. It's like metallic soap but everybody calls it wax. This one was made out of celluloid. And Mr. Edison for some strange reason didn't make celluloid records until 1912. And I think he made a big mistake, because they don't the wax records don't last very well. Other companies including Oxford, and everlasting and indestructible and everlasting made celluloid cylinders and they last real well. As I may have mentioned, in 1912, no in 1908, the Edison company started making four minute records as well as two minute records with twice as many grooves to the inch. And beginning of that year, they made several machines that would play either one and this is the Model D Edison standard phonograph It was introduced in 1909 with the signate horn as you see here and that would play the kind. They also made this changeable reproducer that would play either the two minute or four minute cylinders everything I played up until now has been two minute, i'll switch it now and play the four minute cylinders.

This is a copy of the first wax cylinder record I've ever heard. I think you will be able to tell what it is. This is by a singing act called Ada Jones and Billy Murray, who were real popular in the first 20 years of the century 20th century Ada Jones was on a concert tour in 1922 and died in Rocky Mountain North Carolina.

This is a little bit unusual in that I had the original box and still got the name on the lid. Now here's a pair of folks that were real popular in the teens and 20s Billy Jones and Ernie Hare recorded us the Happiness Boys

Here's a band you may have heard of Sousa's band. This record didn't necessarily have anything to do with John Philip Sousa because he probably wasn't present. He had several bands that toured the country this is one.

Audience 37:47
Could you speak on that, maybe, about clarity?

Mickey Elmore 37:52
No it's just as much a mystery to me as it is to you.

Audience 37:56
They were so enamored by the technology

Alston Cobourn 38:02
Could you just tell us a little more about how machine itself actually works. Cranking

Mickey Elmore 38:12
This particular model has just one main spring and you wind it up. And there's a governor in there that was I can't show you right now. But anyway, it controls the speed. And the motor is under underneath and it's attached to the mandrel and gears up top by another Belt, which is right here. This under here is a feed screw and it moves the reproducer across the record at whichever two or four minute setting that and keeps the reproducer in place keeps the needle in place and that's about all I know about it.

Audience
Has anybody offered to do like a remaster of these because it could potentially remaster these, these would be very important pieces that you're able to clear up a lot of the crackle.

Mickey Elmore 39:18
Yeah, some people are doing just that. They're expensive $30-$40 apiece. I've only got one of them. Awhile ago I played you Josephine and my flying machine. The male vert part of that duet was Billy Murray, and he was a very popular singer, and up until 1925 and this is him playing a song that I think you'll recognize.

Audience 44:06
Mickey about what year did they stop putting out cylinders, and start putting out the you know the regular disks.

Mickey Elmore 44:17
Well it's not that simple Mr. Emil Berliner invented the flat disc in 1888 and they started making them commercially about 1896. But they didn't start to catch on until about 1900-1901. The company that Mr. Berliner started became the Victor Talking Machine Company through a bunch of court settlements and so forth. And once Victor Talking Machine Company it caught on like wildfire. Both the cylinders was in the discs were available from about 1898 until 1929. When Mr. Edison went out of the the musical record business, he still made dictating machines.

Audience 45:17
I noticed when you did the wind up part, when this would have been purchased did it come with instructions to say how many times a winds per cylinder of a two minute recording?

Mickey Elmore 45:27
I never seen anyone that told you how many. And of course, it depends on whether you're playing a two minute and a four minute record, as you just had to learn.

Audience 45:39
Well, every time you wind it and you bring back, what is it that you doing, when we bring back the handle?

Mickey Elmore 45:45
It doesn't always catch. In 1912, Theodore Roosevelt made some campaign cylinders campaign records for Edison. And they were made on four minute wax cylinders, four minute Amberol cylinders, as he called them, and they were issued and they're fairly scarce. But when Mr. Roosevelt died in 1917, I think it was or 18 the Edison company reproduced or re re released most of those records as blue Amberol celluloid cylinders, and this is one of them.

Cylinder recording 47:02

Mickey Elmore 50:47
Theodore Roosevelt was

this is one of my favorites. It's a lively song

Premier Quartet, and you may have recognized that lead singer that was the same Billy Murray that we've heard twice before.

By about 1902, they made them, about anyone could afford them. But there the Edison company made a type of of cylinder machine that sold for $7 and a half

Audience 56:07
About how many cylinders would a family have?

Mickey Elmore 56:09
I don't really know, I suspect 30 or 40.

Audience 56:13
Did they make different level models? They would have one with all the bells and whistles supporting.

Mickey Elmore 56:24
Yeah, this was sort of the the main stay model here the Edison standard. The smallest that I just mentioned was the Edison, Gem $7 and a half and shortly increased $10. They made a an Edison home, which instead of the feed screw being right behind it like this one is it, it was out here at the end, but on the same axle. And that was a little higher model higher price model, then the Edison standard then they made the Edison triumph, which was a great big machine, and it sold for considerably more. And you could also get a higher price versions, you could get them in mahogany, you could get a more wooden horn, depending on what you're willing to pay for. In 1917, the victor company made the first jazz records that were ever released, and the Edison company wasn't far behind in recording some jazz so this is one of them and I'll finish up with this.

Audience 1:01:36
Mickey what type of stores sold these?

Mickey Elmore 1:01:40
There was often a sports shop in town that also carried record players. And few years later, there would have been a dedicated record player dealer, it had to of been an Edison dealer because Edison didn't let them sell anybody else's products.

Audience 1:02:07
Example, Do you just do the Edison ones? or do you collect the other?

Mickey Elmore 1:02:12
I've got most anything I can find.

Audience 1:02:17
How many do you have?

Mickey Elmore 1:02:19
About 25? Or 30?

Audience 1:02:22
How did they record? I mean? Do they have do you know how they recorded in the actual studio?

Mickey Elmore 1:02:27
Yeah, there was a machine behind the curtain because they didn't want you to see the fine details. But the artist would stand in front of it and holler into the horn. And they will be there's a recording recorder they call it that fits right in place of where this reproducer is.

Audience 1:02:51
So it's also a recorder?

Mickey Elmore 1:02:53
Yeah. And in fact, I've got some records I've made. I didn't think bring them. Anybody got any questions?

Audience 1:03:07
So you know how to fix it?

Mickey Elmore 1:03:10
Yeah

Audience 1:03:14
Is there a different temperature or conditions where you store those?

Mickey Elmore 1:03:20
Just room temperature.

Audience 1:03:23
Is this the only one you have?

Mickey Elmore 1:03:24
Oh, no, I've got about 25-30 machines.

Alston Cobourn 1:03:28
So how many are cylinders? Do you have I think that's how many cylinders do you have?

Mickey Elmore 1:03:34
400 or 500

Alston Cobourn 1:03:35
Yeah

Audience 1:03:42
So if they break now is there somewhere where you can get the parts machines because I'm assuming the parts

Mickey Elmore 1:03:51
There are several dealers around the country that have parts. Not my first machine wasn't completed so I had to buy some some parts $7 and a half machine I probably paid $25 to get it running.

Alston Cobourn 1:04:11
What else you got on that table over there? In case people want to see it.

Mickey Elmore 1:04:15
There there are some books over there about mostly Edison records and the Edison phonographs you want to look through those. I also brought a stereo scope and several stereo cards that are related to photographs and records and so forth. If you wanted to look at those.

Audience 1:04:39
If you play one without the horn attached, can you hear it at all?

Mickey Elmore 1:04:44
Almost none.

Audience 1:04:48
When it first came out what kind of music was recorded? Just popular music?

Mickey Elmore 1:04:51
A lot of tear jerkers to tell you the truth, it was most anything that was was popular at the time they would put on the records.

Audience 1:05:10
what interests you so much about wax cylinders? What interests you so much about wax cylinders that you have collected 500 of these things.

Mickey Elmore 1:05:20
I have no idea. Little example of what it sounds like without the horn.

Loud was never a problem, they were always loud.

Audience 1:05:56
I noticed that whenever we were listening to whenever we were listening to them whether you were standing or seated that you always had a contentment in your face and you're moving. What are you feeling when you listen to those because there's something very special about the way you present when you're listening to these.

Mickey Elmore 1:06:18
I just enjoy them is all I know.

Audience 1:06:19
He is avid, what are avid collectors, so many historical, unique things in their home is just amazing, full of all the things they love. And they're just born in another time period. Enjoy so many unique things.

I was wondering about. Because as you started sharing how you felt about this sort of technology when you were young. I was wondering if any of that was bubbling up for you? Was It like that is it the same feeling you had when you were listening to them when you were younger.

Mickey Elmore 1:06:58
It sort of grew with me.

Audience 1:07:02
How often do you take these out?

How often do you take out your five hundred rolls and listen?

Mickey Elmore 1:07:09
Not very often. There's always something in the way.

Audience 1:07:14
Have you branched out into the old player pianos or similar thing?

Mickey Elmore 1:07:19
I've got a player piano but it died about 10 years ago. There's nobody that works on them now days.

Audience 1:07:27
When folks listen to these individually, did they all sit around the table? Or did they sit down in the room and just listen again, we've seen photographs of the people that would have them in their living rooms. On the Verandas of the bungalows, out there, two or three couples dancing on the bungalow, which grateful is from over across from the university. That was before radio and new with radio...

Mickey Elmore 1:08:04
There was a stereo picture there of people sitting around while looking at some kind of stereo records that have been something similar.

Alston Cobourn 1:08:16
Well, thank you, everyone, for coming. We appreciate it. Mickey will be here, ask any questions you want, to take peek at all of that. Thanks.