[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

Wray R. Herring 0:00
Herring. [Ray] Herring, I live at 3228 Cappahosic Road in Gloucester, Virginia 693-4498 telephone number, 804 area code

Calvin Marrow 0:13
Calvin Morrow. I live at 1207 Stephen Street Greensboro, North Carolina. My serial (service) number was 6564998. *laughs*

Richard Jones 0:27
My name is Richard Jones, I live at 2407 Airlines Drive Fayetteville, North Carolina 28304. My serial number is 6565089.

John Gilmer 0:43
My name is John Gilmer. I live at 3532 [Telephone] Court Columbus, Georgia 31906. I don't know my serial number. *laughs*

Huey L. Lawerence 0:57
Name is Huey L. Lawerence, 4421 Fleming Street Ayden, that's an A. Y. D. E. N. North Carolina 28513. Serial number 6564890.

Abe Thurman 1:15
Abe Thurman, 804 Mulberry Street Beaufort, North Carolina 28516. Serial number 6564885.

Wray R. Herring 1:23
I'd like to put my serial number in, I still remember it. [Ray] Herring my serial number is 6564940. *laughter*

Alex Albright 1:36
Well, there's obviously nothing the matter with anybody's memory here. Listening to you this morning it's obvious the your affection for the band and group of men that were in it. I wonder if you'd spent some time trying to guess what your lives might have been like had you not been in the band. What were you planning to do before the war?

Richard Jones 2:09
Well, I had planned, as I said this morning, I was majoring in horticulture before I got in the band. I got in the band because I played clarient in the university band, the college band rather. But I was going to be a horticulturist.

Wray R. Herring 2:27
The only plans I had at that time was finish high school and college was pretty much out of the question for me. So, no way to get into college but I already had sisters in college and there wasn't enough money so, I really had no other plans other than finishing high school probably going out and getting a job. The band sort of, the whole thing changed my life, this band it changed my whole life. Gave me an opportunity to go to college, gave me an oppurtunity to learn a lot from a lot of more experienced people since I was youngest one in there and the least amount of experience, I had a chance to learn from them *cough* [inaudible] After learning about music, studying music in the band then I continued with music upon getting out of the band, I studied at A&T college and I went on to teach math for 33 years.

Calvin Marrow 3:57
In high school, all I wanted to do was get out. That was the number one goal and near the end of high school, I read about the postal service and I was really ready to go in to postal service. But thank goodness this came along, the band and I was glad to get in the band because that just took everything away. And then it gave me an opportunity after the band to go to college, finish college, become a teacher and then become the principal.

John Gilmer 4:37
I'd just come out of high school and I wanted to go in to college and I wanted to go into law. I don't know exactly what branch of law or what but I wanted to go into the field of law. But after I went into the Navy, into the band, and I came back [inaudible] I forgot all about it. And so, I found out that my mother and father they wanted me to be a doctor, but I ain't had no desire to be a doctor. And so after I came back, I worked as [inaudible] for about a year and a half on a G.I. Bill, then I left there and I went back into service and I stayed until I got my retirement in. And I've been out about 36 or (3)7 years now.

Wray R. Herring 5:31
What, mention the branch you went back in to.

John Gilmer 5:33
The army. Airborne. Jumping out the planes

Wray R. Herring 5:38
But you had a band.

John Gilmer 5:40
Yeah, I was in the band too some

Wray R. Herring 5:42
Yeah.

John Gilmer 5:43
Yeah. The army band to the [inaudible], first division band.

Alex Albright 5:50
So, who do you cheer for when Army plays Navy? *repeats question*

John Gilmer 5:56
I don't cheer at all. *laughter* I don't cheer at all, I just let them go. Whoever wins, wins. [inaudible chatter] They had a provisional band and and a division band. [inaudible chatter].

Huey L. Lawerence 6:28
Huey Lawerence, went to the Pittsburgh Pennsylvania Schools K through 12. Loved High School, fell in love with music, loved stage shows, and I saw Louis Armstrong about 1934, that did it. [Bugle]. I used to wake up everybody in the valley that worked in the steel mill, every morning wake them up. I was fortunate enough to go to Schenley High School, which has a lot of graduates that went in professional music. And that became incentive for me to hit the road. And Pittsburgh at that time was full of nightclubs, theaters. And that was my dream. But it changed when my high school coach saw that I was kind of rough, you know, around on the soccer field. He put me into a football uniform, fortunate [not fortunate enough] but made the team and after [tip of] the year, we won the city championship, and so he doctored up the books so he could keep these boys for another year, he'd gotten about eight or nine black fellas that he put on his team and everyone came from a section called The Hill District. But we took a little celebration down in town, and we got caught. And so went before the principal, who is kind of on the reverse side a Mr. Hartley. He looked at my record and said, "You're not taking English", I said no sir not taking, dropped it. He said "What?" Next thing I knew he had the coach and the counselor in his office. Next thing I knew, he said, "You're not gonna still play football". Said, "Now you can either go to summer school, or continue another year". So I go to summer school. Next thing I knew I received a letter from a coach (who was) from Boston College, Roland Bernard. And so he interested in me in coming to a place called Greensboro, North Carolina. And so the YMCA director knew something about Greensboro. And so they chose me, another fellow from Schenley, another outstanding player from a place called McKees Rocks in Pennsylvania and New Kensington, and so I do have a picture showing us guys with our chests stuck out, we're going down south. And when we got to Greensboro, and I met the people there, as I said before, it changed my whole life, a new status on my adventures. And then my hearing about the band, I gave up the football. And that is my career. And then Mr. Thurman came along and he introduced me to some young lady that all of you looking at, and that further changed my mind. So here I am, in North Carolina. Been here since 1941 and haven't regretted a moment.

John Gilmer 9:48
That would be something Thurman would do.

Abe Thurman 9:53
[inaudible] Abe Thurman, I'm originally from Newark, New Jersey. My folks [inaudible] had planned on going into the medical field so, when I went to A&T, I, I was taking pre med. So I had three years of pre med before I joined the band. He said, "Well, why did you join the band you had, three years of pre med?" I didn't know whether I could get into medical school right away then or not before the army drafted me. So, this opportunity came for the band and I took it, because I, they said "Well, you, since you played Piccolo, and you don't find many piccolo players. So it would be easy to join a band". But this was just put on hold, the medical aspects, because when I left Newark, there was a doctor that he said, "Well, when you get through college, I can easily get you in to med school". He wanted me to take over his practice and so forth. And as you can see that went kaput because once I got into music, for some reason, I seemed to like it. And then I imagine I didn't see what was ahead as far as medical concern, the way you see bodies and people all cut open and things of that sort. Well, I found out later on I was'nt made up for that kind of stuff. So I stayed in the music. My major naturally wasn't, wasn't music. It was, it was chemistry, and biology. But since I was in the band, I learned a lot of things in the band by learning how to just [inaudible], by learning how to transcribe the arrangements and learn how to write music and so forth. Then switch those switch back over to the trumpet. Because when I went to A&T I was a trumpet player, but they said they had too many trumpet players, so he sent me down to [a-hern], and said and [ahern] they asked me to play the piccolo. Anybody dare be back in those days when you from up north there, especially hangin around them gangs, don't dare'm. So I learned to play the piccolo and for six months I was in the A&T band playing the piccolo and from that point on everything became all right, I went back to school after I got out all the service. Not directly because I got out in January and so, my mother and father say, "We gave you three years, why can't you give us one?" So I say well, I'll go back in September. They said "Why don't you go back now, the quarter starts in March?" So I went back the Greensboro in March. And I looked around, I said, I'm not ready to go back yet. So, I came back home and said, no, they couldn't take me in there cause it was filled up, because I didn't actually try it. But I knew I was going back in September. So while I was up there, I just start playing with bands so far. So I played with three different bands up there while I was up there between Newark and New York. Got the union card, couldn't work in New York, because if you had a, if you didn't have an 802 card, you couldn't work in the city. So, I just worked around in Jersey and so forth. And then I went back to A&T, then I met the fellas once again and then we came on. I finished school and Randall Johnson, who used to play the band before the war, he had gotten a principal job and he said, "Well, I need a band director in Beaufort". I had not intended to go into teaching, I didn't know what I wanted to do. Cause I said, after all these years in service, I was gonna do anything I wanted to do. And so I knew three fellas that wanted jobs so I gave him the name of those three fellas. And each one of them fell apart. They said they got jobs someplace else. And he said "Abe, you promised me you come if they didn't come". So, I said well, I'll give you one year. So I came to Beaufort in '47 and that '47 extended to 37 years.

Wray R. Herring 13:40
[inaudible] Happen while I was in the Navy. [This is important cause it changed my whole life. I got married]. I was only eighteen and that was in 1944. [She asked], before we went over seas. And that sort of changed everything for me. Because when I got out of service and I started college [inaudible]. So, the wife and I went to Greensboro, that's where our home was originally. A&T was right there, so we did A&T, both of us enrolled in A&T and this was in the winter quarter, Jaunary quarter of 1946. We got out in '45. January of '46. Both enrolled, of course she couldn't stay that long because in a little while she was pregnant and that sort of did it for her. And that did it for me too cause I went to school, I finished in three years, I went there year 'round [inaudible]. So, I came out, I finished up in the fall quarter of '48, but my graduating class was the class of '49. I had to hurry up and get out [inaudible]. there was another child, so I had to hurry up and get out of there so I could do better than that 110 dollars or (1)20 dollars the government were giving us to live on. Cause we made it on that outside [inaudible], jobs and band and everything we made it. And from there, I went on into teaching, one year in North Carolina and 32 years in Newport News, Virginia.

Alex Albright 16:06
Let me ask you this, if someone came to you today, who is the same age as you were when you went into the band and asked you for your advice about whether to go in to a Navy Band today or do something else, what would you tell them? Imagine this kid to be just like you at that age.

Wray R. Herring 16:37
I sent two kids, I sent three kids, to the Navy school. One of them by way of college, and he went on into the Navy School and one, two right from high school into the Navy School, because they were good in music, they were top notch muscians in high school, and I knew they could make it in the Navy School of Music. Which is a rough school. You got to be good to go there. You can't go there and wait to get good, you got to be good to pass the test to get in the Armed Forces School they call it now. So, if I saw good musician, young musician, and he didn't know which way to go, I'd say, go into service and you'll learn a lot and it'll help you become a man and then you'll be doing something that you like to do.

Calvin Marrow 17:42
If I had to advise a student coming out of high school, and since we don't have a national emergency, just remember, a national emergency and peacetime, I would suggest to that student go to college. Go to college because unless you go to college and finish, it's pretty difficult to get a decent job in our society. Now I'd like to back up a little. We talk about socialism in this country. The minute you mentioned the word socialism, our capitalistic society comes down on it. But the best thing that happened to me in my entire life was the socialism that we had in the GI Bill that gave me my education because without that I doubt very seriously that I would have gotten it when I got it, I probably would have got it eventually. But the GI Bill, which I consider to being capitalistic socialist, was the best thing that happened to the men of World War Two.

Richard Jones 19:04
I'd like to mention some things I haven't said before. When I came out of the Navy, I had this great idea about playing with a big band. As a little boy I'd love to do that. When I went to get discharged, we had to spend the night in Raleigh, North Carolina and that same night Erskine Hawkins was there with his band. And his band, I saw those guys when they came in, they looked awful and they stayed in the same old dump that I stayed in. And it was nice and clean, but the bed bugs like ate us up. So that one experience changed my mind. I said, I don't want to do that. Then I decided I wanted to play in a studio orchestra. So, I went to Northwestern University, I studied with a man that played in John Phillips' band. And I said Mr. Chimera, I'd like to play in the studio band. He says "Well, you play your instrument well enough but most of those guys play three and four instruments". So that changed, that knocked that out. Then I got into teaching. I've been teaching ever since then in 1951 and I've taught mostly in universities and colleges I did spend...right here was my first job, I taught at Eppes High School here in Greenville for a year. Went back got a master's, talking to some colleges, I was teaching at North Carolina Central and I kept trying to get a promotion, they said "Well you got to get another degree". So, then I went back and got the PhD. Worked night and day three years, when I got out they offered me a $500 raise, so I didn't go back and, then I went to Maryland, I taught at public schools there for 9 years, then got an opportunity to go to Fayetteville, so I've been in Fayetteville since 1980. But I don't know what I would, I would advise against going through that kind of thing and not because well, if you dedicated that's fine, if you love it, I loved it. In fact, when I was working in Central, I liked the band so well, this is the truth, I hated to see weekends. I hated to see holidays. I hated to see the summer. Because I was just, oh, man. I got away from that, I came to grow up.

John Gilmer 21:31
If somebody were to ask me about joining the band in 1942 after going in I say because you don't know what's gonna happen when you're drafted. I say if you can't go into the band, go to college, go to school and try to stay out of the war. But if you asked me now, about the band, I would telhave to go. Because you don't have what's called a threat, going to go to college and go to school and try to stay out the war, but man if you ask me now, I'll tell you go ahead get your education. It is more important than anything else, because you don't have the education that you have to go in vain

Huey L. Lawerence 22:26
when listening, and think we're all in accord I'm in a position, having taught 12th grade in small rural, schools, they put your title committees and all this type thing guidance so forth. Back in the days in which we were prevalent. Things were glamorous when seeing the world of band orchestra become the town. When they got on the stage and entertained they would dress music sounded good. instruments look pretty lot of glamorous young lady standing around people dancing, happy to do that. Those were those days, but today a whole different ballgame. There's too many opportunities out here for our young folks to say well, I want to do music. Yes. Everybody wants to do music because it sounds good to them. They have these false instruments you can push a button, some type of horn a keyboard or something comes on people get them saying that now. How are you going to get bread and meat on the table? Everybody is seeing it in play. If I knew that you weren't an exceptional person dedicated to learning music so that you will be competitive you have something to offer I mean music not this overnight stuff. In which you see the Beatles made millions or wait supreme all those folks. Please get your education. I had experience of sending a trumpet player to a&t on the courses to live there. In 1963. The guy was good. He could use a natural born trumpet player natural lips no problem in reading the music articulation I took him through the hardens book. Causes saw his potentials gave him a four year scholarship. First time they had done this at a&t. He went made first chair and I think he couldn't take all that delation. He went home that Christmas. He never got back to A&T, he went up north. People got him up there in Clermont got him music left him his mind Blue, that was the end of him. He's nothing to go on to. So going back to the original statement, yes, music is nice. I learned not the hard way. But by guys back in the late 30s and 40s that looked out for the youngster they told me what to watch out for. They showed me things. You see, I listened, I wanted tp get on the road. This band gave me an opportunity to really experience the niceties of the music. Now when I got out in thought about big time, I found out that that is not what I wanted. I just told you that the guys who have trouble there is the they would do you in no principles at all. But if you only knew you see to them I Duke Ellington, oh boy, Shawn, this Luke this and that. They hated one another. How do I know? I personally do some of the guys in the big Count Basie, Grover Mitchell, lean his band. Now if he hadn't passed on, he came up in our area. And he said

Huey L. Lawerence 26:24
that was one of the worst bands he have been with the guys hated one another say he would down Gothic because he's been there. So the advice now we were fortunate people that after the war, being with music, we had time to be influenced by one another. Listen to them, I listen. I changed my whole itinerary. I gave up a four year scholarship in football at A&T. Guaranteed. I had that. But I chose go with the Navy. Because I loved music. And after I got out, I put the football down. I lost my scholarship. But I had the GI and I went into teaching. I loved the rural setting because I've felt children out there could use my advice. So I have a son. He loves music. But as I told him, you have to do more than strumming guitar and beating the drum. Now what are you going to do to put that bread and meat on the table. And this is what we face our youngsters now. Please advise them College, do what your talent calls for. And make a living

Abe Thurman 27:46
most of them [inaudible]. So I mean, I had access most of the time to those who plan on going into the workforce are either going into college and so forth. If I were that most of the time I advise them to go to college. Rather than go into service, I'd say if you're going to serve you you don't know actually what you're going. It's kind of tough because it's regimented. And if you are not able to take orders and things of that sort it's better for you not to go there. As far as the music concern. Those that I had as far as music concerned, they were not interested in going into service playing music. They're more interested in going to the college because most of the time you find the real good musicians are usually a good students to and if they were good students, then you would direct them to go to the college. Cause I, one of my very good students he just passed last Friday. He, I sent him to A&T Jones, you probably know him he knew he was name was John Wendy. John Wendy he directed a Smithfield Selma band for our for many years. And it's one of one of my favorites, one of the first ones I've taught, and he moved in A&T and I had others to follow him and gone to A&T. I've never had any go in service. And they asked me how I liked the service I said my life and service was good. I liked it during World War. And they say, Do you think I would like it, I say they're are, some of them I knew wouldn't like it because you can't take the regimentation very well, I tell you to do something you don't want to do and let's say you go into service, you're gonna have a hard time. So most of the time I directed them to go to college if they could possibly do so. Other than that, I would tell them to go to the school where you get some, some technical training or some other kinds of training but make sure you get education don't quit now and go to work and then your bias of a car and you'll be finished with everything and that's it.