[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

Rozwell MacLaren
Interviewer

Robert Osborn
Interviewee

April 17, 2022
Virtual Interview

RM: (00:03)
I'm Rozwell MacLaren and I'm interviewing.

RO: (00:06)
Um, Robert Osborn.

RM: (00:08)
Okay, so what is your affiliation with East Carolina University?

RO: (00:14)
I am a senior doing a bachelor's in biology pre med track. Want to be a psychiatrist. I graduate in a month. Okay, less than that.

RM: (00:27)
How was the pandemic discussed, handled in your classes or your extracurriculars?

RO: (00:34)
Well, the pandemic essentially vaporized half of any extracurricular activities that existed on campus before he even showed up. So, I was originally going to Johnson and community college in what is it 2020. I think whenever whenever all of this went down, all that closed down. When we transition to online then I transferred over to ECU. Now, whenever I went to ECU, everything was online, there was no curricular or extracurricular activity. It was just your your classes. You were at home. That's it. There was minimal discussion involved because there were most classes on math and science and medical terminology for the while. But then, and for example, microbiology and pestilence, politics, and conquest, Coronavirus, was a pertinent topic. We discussed that a good bit in class. And as the campus opened back up for this year, I didn't really get involved in too terribly much except for tutoring, I became a physics tutor.

RM: (01:46)
And why was that? Like? Why did you not get in to extracurricular activities, that part of the school

RO: (01:55)
admittedly, first off, my senior year at ECU was the only year actually was on campus. And I had to get acclimated to everything happening on campus. And I wasn't used to having all of these different groups and everything. So I just kind of spent time watching to kind of get a precedent for how everything should go down. But then I realized, you know, that just nothing's going to come of it if I sit on the sidelines, but also it's a little too late to have anything to gain out of it. Because I've already missed my junior year. It's my senior year. I don't have any long term engagement with anyone,

RM: (02:43)
then you can blame the pandemic for that.

RO: (02:47)
I could blame the pandemic for cutting a year in-person out of my college life. Yes. I can't blame the pandemic for my hesitancy to engage with other extracurricular activities. It's some of this, some of that, you know? Yes.

RM: (03:06)
How did you learn the decisions to close campus or cancel activities?

RO: (03:12)
Oh, that's a fun story. Okay, so I had actually moved into Greenville, my junior year, I had gotten an apartment. And I was hoping to attend the classes in person. No one was informed of the decision to close campus until I think about a few days before classes actually started, which means at least the closing the campus entirely, most of the classes had shifted to online but the the campus had been closed entirely. Just a few days before they started sending everyone home. I went home I had to eat $2,600 of debt from closing off my lease. ECU you hurt me in that regard. There was nothing to do on campus, there was no reason for me to be there. What was the rest of the question?

RM: (04:12)
That was that question. So what was your experience of actually leaving campus?

RO: (04:20)
I packed up and went home.

RM: (04:21)
Did you have any help?

RO: (04:23)
I had to help of my father and brother and we just put all of my stuff into a truck and my SUV and we went home. Again, the experience was I lost $2,600 I was not happy. That's and the rest of my experience was I'm now at home and I'm attending classes online.

RM: (04:49)
And your emotions and thoughts as you were leaving were negative because you lost $26,000 2600 not

RO: (04:55)
26 Oh God 26,000 Would I would have no If it's 2600 Okay, it's still a lot of money. It's a lot of money for a college student, right? Yes. Especially a college student without a job. All right. Yeah. So go on,

RM: (05:14)
present day. So what's daily life like for you now in the like, tail end of the pandemic?

RO: (05:23)
Well, I, I've always been more of a person that stays inside. But me and my or my roommates and I, we have a schedule. Every Monday we go grocery shopping. And you know, I attend to class from Monday through Thursday. Because I have cures lab for chemistry and I have physics tutoring, I have to, you know, tutor people in person. It's a nice job, I like it. It's a good routine keeps me out of the house for a good bit of time. Otherwise, more often than not on either in the apartment just kind of sitting and watching stuff cooking or on the computer right here, where I'm doing homework, studying, writing, playing video games, talking with people, you know, standard stuff. It's, it's changed a little bit. I mean, admittedly, the biggest thing that happened when I had when the Coronavirus kicked everything off the quarantine and everything was I wanted a cheeseburger. I wanted a bacon King from Burger King. And I couldn't get that for six months. And that was it, it sounds like such a tiny thing. But it's the little pieces and parts of old routines and the ability to just go out and do something that was just smacked down and it was cut off. Everybody had the just kind of subscribe to this new idea of stay at home stay away from other people be isolated. And it was not good. Now, even me being kind of a homebody. The good thing is, is I had an online network of friends and I still do so it didn't affect me near as much. But there's a market difference between talking with people through you know, a microphone and a camera, and actually sitting in person and engaging in seeing body language and tone and the tiny minutiae of the human social experience.

RM: (07:38)
Now, so obviously, technology share played a huge role in your life during the pandemic, since you had to talk to all your friends online. Yeah. What about for classes? How did that go?

RO: (07:53)
Well, for classes, it, things were a little disorganized, things were a little unsatisfying, it was obvious that some people were not prepared to teach an online course. The most glaring example of this was a math class I had to take in my junior year, first semester, for it was calculus for life sciences to unsatisfactory. The rest of my class experiences, everyone adapted relatively well. And some classes benefited from being put into an online setting, because a lot of it cuts back on a lot of the rigid scheduling and limitations of the classroom setting and allows you to if you need the assistance, people that care and people that want to pass will do what they need to do to pass. I was one of those people my showed up to you know, chemistry too, and all these other things going on. But sit there and listen, take notes. Generally speaking, technology was more of a benefit than a detriment. Especially because I ended up getting assistance with math not during the tests, of course, now assistance with the general concepts of calculus two from a engineering friend of mine, he an actual engineer out West, who was very excited to teach me. Now the worst part about the classroom setting being brought online, though, was the labs that were incredibly disorganized. They were performed to a low standard. And I think at least half the people I talked to are unsatisfied with their experience.

RM: (09:49)
That's about it. Really? Yeah. What kind of messages did you get from your professors? And how did you think other students in your classes handled the changes?

RO: (10:00)
If we're talking direct messages or emails or like announcements or something, I only got announcements. I never got any direct information from my professors. They were their professors they have hundreds of students to deal with, you know. The announcements were usually ones of good tone and encouragement. For the professors that cared. Some of them just did their job to an exacting standard of, I'm going to put the information on Canvas, in the form of videos or something, you are going to watch them you are going to do the practice homework and you are going to do the test. And that is that was it. Repeat the question, though.

RM: (10:46)
So what about the other students in your class? How do you think they handled? Everything from

RO: (10:53)
the only engagements I had with other students were in the discussion boards, which don't serve to do much but kind of take attendance and participation. It's the discussion boards, essentially just everybody posted something and nobody read anything. Regarding the labs, the actual only interactions I had with my fellow classmates were in the labs over a voice call. Not a lot of them were satisfied with the performance as well. Most of them were rather annoyed with the performance of the TAs in my junior year, and generally expected more and better explanations from people that were qualified the whole the job of that manner. For example, in physics, one, the TA just wasn't that capable of explaining things to well, and physics to is the same kind of thing. It was just, I could ask a question, and it would take a while to get a good answer. And even then it was very loose, and maybe they were worried about violating academic integrity, and maybe they're worried about providing too much assistance but a classroom is a learning setting first and foremost.

RM: (12:12)
Yeah, learning environment. So how did your family handle the pandemic?

RO: (12:20)
My brother kept working. My father was very cautious, he's immunocompromised, he has a kidney transplant, he takes immunosuppressants to keep his kidney from being rejected. So we were all very careful in the first six or so months actually, the first nine months of this I would disinfect everything. Every time I came back from grocery shopping, I was the one person that could go grocery shopping because I didn't have a job and I wasn't immunocompromised. So I kind of managed going and getting things for my folks when needed. My father didn't really go out that much. And he wore a mask when he did I would wear a mask I would sometimes I would wear gloves some I have a big thick pack of disinfecting wipes in the side pocket of my door and I would just pull them out disinfect all of like the steering wheel and every other surface in my car that and the handles of the doors and the handles of the doors going inside. I would use hand sanitizer on my hands like once every 15 minutes it hurt a bit but you know alright started to if you wash your fun fact if you wash your hands too much they they start to hurt but uh yeah we were all very cautious and considering our family was one to go out to eat you know once a week and like I said those routines whenever you are missing them they kind of you feel it even though it's it's a funny first world problems. But the problems we all experience are relative to who we are what we're doing where we're at. Yeah, I was the one that was the least affected by it all honestly, because again, I just stayed at home most of the time computer.

RM: (14:20)
Yeah. So what were your impressions of the media coverage of the pandemic both currently and before it arrived in the States?

RO: (14:29)
Oh god. My opinions of the media coverage are about the same as they are for anything that is big and kind of important. I think they were very focused on making it scary and very focused on I can't say overblowing it because it was a problem. Whenever I caught Coronavirus it led floored me for you know a few days and then I always just kind of vaguely ill and extremely tired for a week afterwards, then that's something that will hamper productivity and you Something you just don't want floating around, especially when I'm a 22 year old, pretty strong guy, admittedly overweight and the sickness knocked me on my blood. Of course I didn't have the vaccine because I have limitations. I have an autoimmune problem that is essentially a kidney disease, my immune cells clump together and scar the hell out of my nephrons as time goes on, and the vaccine was known to cause spike protein clumping in some cases, if I recall correctly, so I just never got it

RO: (15:42)
I think the media coverage was a little overboard regarding theorizing where it came from and everything and it could have been better and saying, hey, just do these things. Things will be okay. Hang in there. It was not positive enough. It was not showing hope for anyone. It was always dark and dreary and you know, oh no, the stock market's crashing. Oh, no. Everyone's out of jobs. Oh, no. And it's and it's never things are gonna get better. It's always panic panic panic panic.

RM: (16:18)
Yeah. So what seemed normal before and that seems strange now.

RO: (16:29)
All considering we're over the hump and most people are not wearing masks anymore. I can say that seeing people's faces again in full is refreshing. It's It's strange to see people you know, not masked up and not kitted up, because in the first few months of the Coronavirus, everybody was kitted up to pack and back with all kinds of stuff. But now it's just everybody's not wearing a mask. Everybody's just kind of relaxed. What's strange is going back to normal. Was it strange is normal. And normal is strange now, because yesterday I went out with my roommates to a restaurant we sat down and we add food. And that's not something you could do a year ago. Within reason, you know, we sat down and had Greek food at the marathon place. It was very nice. I can't I can't remember. I think it was a Gyro platter or something. But yeah. You couldn't go out. There was a stigma on being out and about a while ago. And that's kind of finally falling. There's a there's a few stigmas, uncertain behaviors again, walking around with a mask. I usually wore a mask, but admittedly I never really liked. So this is it's better for me to not have to wear one anymore. Of course I would. I wore one when it mattered. And after the point that I call it Coronavirus and recovered us just okay, I'm done. I've had it. I'm I'm good.

RM: (18:07)
So yeah. So how did your plans change? I know you, obviously the whole apartment you lost out on $2,600? Is there anything else you missed out on

RO: (18:22)
the MCAT I got delayed in those plans. I didn't get in good contact, I missed out on a lot of networking, I missed out a lot of talking with people because I figure that month of extracurricular activity or know that semester or to have extracurricular activity would have made a difference in both my academic record. And generally speaking, just being able to talk to people and get a handle on what a person is supposed to do as they're going through college. I am kind of I went to Johnson community college and they were great with everything, but they're not really the kind of folks that are going to get you a job as you go out as you graduate because you're getting an Associate's and of course that's okay enough for some folks but most jobs look for a bachelor's now. And so whenever you graduate from ECU, you're gonna get a job. So I missed out on all of that I missed out on taking the MCAT because I was so focused on you know, kind of getting through classes and hanging in there back at home that and there was a lot of difficulty in getting employment and also the money you know, $2,600 gone like that. Meaning I wanted to save up and the MCAT is expensive it's it's $325 to take it Yeah. There's that I didn't have volunteering that had to balance basically the risks of do I want to go out and possibly catch this and then get my father is sick with it and possibly see him die. Or do I want to stay home and just mitigate those risks because I can I have plenty of life left to live meaning I can take another year or two to go and get the MCAT and become a doctor, I don't care if my psychiatrist if I'm when I'm 28. Or if I'm 32, it's, it's not going to make too terribly big a difference. The thing I think I missed, most of was probably just making friends and getting acclimated to being on a large scale college campus. That was the biggest missed opportunity. And because I'm more of an introverted individual, I didn't get accustomed to large scale groups of people or generally reaching out as much.

RM: (20:40)
Understandable. So the question, how do you rate the governmental responses to the pandemic on the local state and federal levels, they were

RO: (20:51)
all poor. Most of the bipartisan government, you'd got two sides, they're more focused on hating each other than actually doing anything to benefit. Anyone else. I think it was pitiful. I think they were childish, I think there could have been a lot better ways to handle literally everything, instead of letting things were there for a while. Could have informed people better could have gotten both sides to communicate, hey, this is generally not a good idea to go out and about and to protest and everything. or to you know, you'd stay at home for like a month and see about, you know, how they were like, Yeah, keep the curve, or what was it lower the curve or something? I can't remember the, the motto that they had, but, you know, that's they failed, they completely and utterly failed? Because they I think the best thing possible, I think they did was the stimulus check for the average person because they were going through, I think it was a stimulus check. And I think they put a stall or something on people having to pay bills for being at home. I think some places did that. I know Italy did that. But that's not here that's overseas. Generally speaking, it helps some people through overall was not very good.

RM: (22:29)
And what was the basis for your evaluations there?

RO: (22:32)
The basis for the evaluations was the average response of the people and the amount of outrage occurring in response to generally everything. No one was keen on being told what to do. Because they resented being told what to do. Because their freedoms, or their their idea of freedom was being challenged. You know, they, I can kind of relate because I like the ability to go out at like, any time and go get a hamburger or go see my friends. And like the rare times that I go see friends in groups of greater than six, you know, and that's, I think it was also the hypocrisy president because you had groups of people, government officials, celebrities, having massive parties of more than 20 people, 50 people. They weren't abiding by the laws that everyone else was. And I think that bred resentment. I think lols for the and not for me is not a policy anyone should follow if they're seeking to actually garner the goodwill of the people they are governing. That is their biggest failure.

RM: (23:42)
What was it like to return to campus

RO: (23:46)
college, it was just like being in high school, but bigger, I walked on campus, I was confused for two days on where everything was, I had my class schedule in my hand almost at all times for a week and then it became routine, I walked my walk, I walked a lot. The most glaring thing was the fact that my feet hurt a lot for the first month. I now can't wear long socks because they won't fit around my calves. Anyway. Now it's there's a lot of people, there's and the thing about going back on campus is you get to engage with people more and I was a senior. So I get to talk to people that are likely to be seniors and their programs of study as well, or degree of hats. So I get to talk to people that are as knowledgeable and excited about the topics that I am. Unlike High School where nobody really cares to be there. And sometimes in college, nobody cares to be there either. I'm gonna admit, some days I literally the only thing driving me was the I didn't want to fail my classes.

RM: (25:03)
Yeah, I feel that.

RO: (25:06)
Yeah, it's I think the most striking thing was the freedom of just being able to plant your feet on the ground, go and do stuff. Like I had access to a gym, I had access to a few restaurants here. And I admittedly, I didn't eat almost any of them, because I cook and it saves a lot of money to do. So. I've met a lot of folks here, and they're made friends. kind of caught up on that one networking I missed out on the first year. I also, I also skipped one of my classes through the entire first semester of this year, to go to the gym, three days a week. And, yeah, it worked out. I mean, I kind of got a bit better about a few things. I still pass the class with, I think an A so yeah. Some classes should be taught online almost exclusively. And it's classes like that. That is just, here's a bunch of terminology. Here's a bunch of stuff to memorize. Have at it.

RM: (26:18)
Yeah. So you mentioned you got COVID. And that it was it knocked you on your butt, but didn't get long COVID.

RO: (26:30)
So, long COVID, I believe is when people talk about being fatigued for you know, longer than two weeks after getting it and so I got the timeline of my illness was on a Wednesday, Wednesday evening, I got the telltale, like, post nasal drip that I usually get whenever I get sick with something respiratory. I've had 40 or 50 sinus infections in my life because I used to take immune suppressants for my kidney disease now that it accelerated into a fever and general like, rather bad aches. And so I was just having an like extremely severe batch of fever dreams. It's like Stephen King himself was writing a screenplay in my head. And that carried on for about two days, and I, you know, message over I have COVID I can't come to class, I feel terrible. Can you just tell me like how to catch up. And I did. They were helpful. And then a week after that I started for you. After the third day, I started recovering. And I think it was Wednesday, and then a week. And then that following Monday, so it was like 11 or 12 days long COVID. So I got I was tired. But I think part of that was just catching up on all the work that I missed. And part of that was part of that's always just the fact that I have migraines. So I'm usually tired, there's not much change. I can say that it did drain my energy, I noticed more fatigue for through that period of recovery. I slept more, but I slept a poor quality. Your nose will just be stuffy for like a week after you recover and there's just nothing you can do about it. Aside from that, I didn't really have any of the mental fog, any abnormal amount of anything else just a little bit tired for a week after I felt better.

RM: (28:40)
All right. Is there anything else you want people to know?

RO: (28:50)
was relevant to what topic? I'll ask that the pandemic pandemic, do what's in the best interest of yourself and your neighbors. Keep your scope tight on your local community. There are things happening in the world that you can't do anything about. So it's best to focus and keep your eyes on what's within arm's reach. Otherwise, you get tired, you get frustrated you get scared you get frightened. And everyone ends up just peeved and ready to fight someone else over the slightest thing. And it doesn't help anyone to carry outrage for that wall. That's really about it.

RM: (29:38)
All right. Well, thank you for your time today. Thanks for giving me an outlet. Yes, no problem. All right.

[End of Recording]