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Oral History InterviewBill Cain, IntervieweeJeff Prince, InterviewerNovember 9, 2001[BEGINNING OF TAPE]JP: (0:12) It's on November the ninth. If I ask your permission to interview, just say yes,BC: (0:19) Yes. JP: (0:20) All right.BC: (0:21) Fine, yeah.JP: (0:21) All right, here we go. Start off, we'll just get where you were born and when, and,BC: (0:28) Actually, I was born in Rockingham, North Carolina, and raised there and went to, graduated from Rockingham High School, and from Rockingham High School, I came to East Carolina College, and that was in 1953, fall of '53. Was a, came down here to go to school and try to play football and, and weighed about 148 pounds at that time, Jeff, but Coach Boone, he allowed me to come out and eventually I made the team.JP: (1:05) Man. All right, what was it like growing up as a child?BC: (1:11) Well, my mother, father, we didn't have a whole lot, but they were very hard workers. I felt like that they gave me everything I needed to have and they taught me some discipline and great respect to hard work and dedication, loyalty, and they've carried over over the years. I look back and refer to my days in Rockingham very fondly, so I have good memories. JP: (1:45) What did your mother and father do for work?BC: (1:47) My mother was a housewife and my dad was a foreman in a textile plant in Rockingham. JP Stevens up there, he retired from that, they still, they both passed away several years ago but they lived in Rockingham [unintelligible].JP: (2:15) Do you have any brothers and sisters?BC: (2:17) I have one brother who lives in Rockingham now, he's a younger brother, and have one sister who lives over at Batesville, South Carolina near Charlotte.JP: (2:25) How close are, are you?BC: (2:27) Oh my sister and I are very close, I wouldn't say that of my brother, [Jeff laughs] we're not very close but we communicate. There's no family, family squabbles, [Jeff laughs] it's real nice.JP: (2:37) But did you go to, did y'all go to high school together? BC: (2:41) No,JP: (2:41) Or seperate,BC: (2:41) No, we have about three years,JP: (2:42) Three years.BC: (2:41) Seperation, yeah. I'm the oldest. In fact, my dad passed away about five years ago, and he had bought a car, a Dodge in 1967, and if you see a yellow Dodge, 1967 Dodge riding around I've got my initials on the back, JP: (2:43) Oh wow.BC: (2:47) My name. It's got 90,000 miles on it, so [unintelligible]JP: (2:55) Oh my goodness!BC: (2:57) I'm riding around with him when I'm driving that car.JP: (3:06) Wow, that's amazing. 90,000 miles on a '67?BC: (3:10) '67 yeah, 440 Dodge.JP: (3:13) Oh, sweet.BC: (3:13) Yeah.JP: (3:13) [Jeff laughs] What ideals were placed on, on you as regard to your parents, or kind of, rules?BC: (3:24) I think work, a strong work ethic. Having not, not knowing and not having an awful lot, I was expected to work. So I worked and then school, played sports, did all the things a lot of people have done, but things a lot of people have done, but that carried over even today. I make a statement every day, but the day I wake up, 4:30 in the morning, don't want to get out. That's how I quit, and I'm out of here, and I lived by that mindset, it's really been helpful to me to try to accomplish some of the places that have gone on in my life.JP: (4:08) Wow. Did you enjoy going to school as, like in high school, elementary?BC: (4:13) I was thinking back, I probably did, it wasn't what because of the fondness of the academic part of it, it was the fondness of maybe socializing and playing some sports and seeing friends and so forth. I think the academic part came a little later, especially in high school, you realized what you had to do.JP: (4:52) Now how many sports did you play, back then?BC: (4:52) I was actually involved with football and baseball.JP: (4:49) Football and baseball?BC: (4:50) Back in those days.JP: (4:50) Did y'all, what kind of things did you do outside of school?BC: (4:52) I was going to work. JP: (4:52) Yeah.BC: (4:52) At the A&P bagging groceries and then I worked as a really young person delivering newspapers, so I can't recall not having a sideline job.JP: (5:09) Yeah. BC: (5:10) Yeah of course [unintelligible] yeah.JP: (5:14) Were your parents encouraging as far as you going to school or?BC: (5:20) As much as they have with anything after a period of time, yes. JP: (5:25) Now how did you and your friends view school?BC: (5:32) Friends I had in the early ages there, actually one, one friend who now is the Vice Chancellor, Vice President of the Campbell University, was a good friend encoura- he was here at East Carolina, encouraged me to come to East Carolina. Some of the other friends never even went to college. So I had a variation, it didn't matter to me really, I'm glad the other [unintelligible].JP: (6:11) What was like life as a teenager?BC: (6:07) Pretty much, in reference to school, job, sports and maybe a few girlfriends, [Bill laughs] I [unintelligible]. JP: (6:18) Now what, did the dating procedures change throughout the years, or? BC: (6:44) Not really.JP: (6:44) Not really?BC: (6:24) I always had been, I might be a little unique in that, but I always had, as an early age, I set particular standards that I had for myself and for people that I associated with, not necessarily friends. But one is I had standards for females. I mean, I wouldn't associate with one that was drinking and smoking, that type of [unintelligible]. I feel like there was plenty of other ones that I didn't have to deal with that to start. So that carried right on through until I got married. And in the early age I was not a billionare and I'd tell them that right quick.JP: (6:45) [Jeff laughs] Now did many people go to high school back then?BC: (7:09) Yeah. Coming from what they call a mid, mid section, you'd have maybe a 50% dropout and then they, we merged into a central high school there in Rockingham, at that time it was Rockingham High School. JP: (7:30) There wasn't one, one high school?BC: (7:30) Well it won't but one high school for Rockingham, but then you had Hamlet and some other surrounding towns. But now there's a central high school, Richmond County High School, which is a boy's school. But back then, even then, we were very strong in sports at the [unintelligible] school. We had a great coach. Sports was great. Very big part of life [unintelligible].JP: (7:53) Now did you have a hard time playing sports in school or in high school, and working, and trying to,BC: (8:07) Oh yeah.JP: (8:07) Manage your, manage your time?BC: (8:08) Yeah I'd be up at, most of the mornings, I'd be up at six. I'd be up to working at six. I'd go to work at D&P and help stock the store, and then go to school at eight o'clock, and then I'd practice football afterwards, and then maybe at night, I would come back and work another couple hours. And I could recall many a time that, that the bus would come by to the grocery store, and I would have worked a couple hours on Friday afternoon, and they picked me up and go on to the game, and then Saturdays, I'd work.JP: (8:50) Wow.BC: (8:50) So my time was filled up.JP: (8:51) Pretty filled up [Jeff laughs]. So, you had, like, a lot of friends that came to East Carolina. Now, what specifically persuaded you to come to East Carolina?BC: (9:00) I never made that decision until probably the summer of, after I graduated, and I was playing semi pro baseball and working in the cotton mill and seeing that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life in that environment along with the friend that [unintelligible] here, so he said, you know, you should go to East Carolina College. So I had only been here one time when I was [unintelligible].JP: (9:01) Now was it hard getting in, or?BC: (9:01) At that, at those particular times, I would say it's not as difficult as it is today except we were at East Carolina College, probably 75:25 everybody had a little [unintelligible] 75 females and 25 males [Jeff laughs]. I know I was really shocked when I went to the cafeteria there. Very small numbers of males, said it looks like a nice place to come.JP: (10:02) That's one of my decisions, the ratio.BC: (10:05) And in fact, my wife, I met my wife here. She was a music major. So East Carolina has really been good to me.JP: (10:15) Yeah, and really good to me, also. Can't complain.BC: (10:21) No.JP: (10:21) Now, what did you, what did you major in? BC: (10:23) When I came here, I majored in physical education teaching, and I minored in teaching.JP: (10:33) Oh wow.BC: (10:33) Yeah.JP: (10:33) Did you know, did you know right from the beginning, or did you take a little while to?BC: (10:39) Even when I was younger age, I had my sight set on [unintelligible]. I was very much interested in sports and whatever had to do with [unintelligible]. The coach I had in high school was a role model that I fortunately had an opportunity to play against him later on [unintelligible]JP: (10:59) Oh, wow.BC: (11:00) Which was quite a thrill at the time, and still is, once you're off South Carolina, it is one of my great mentor mentors, I've talked with him.JP: (11:12) How was that with being a teacher versus student, kind of, how that all played out? They always make a big deal about it.BC: (11:19) What happened is I came here at '53, fall of '53 we had a great team back then, went to a bowl game the year before, a small bowl. We weren't in Carolinas conference at that time, played Elon, Guilford, Lenoir-Rhyne and those schools, nothing on the level it is today. But I knew that my size was a little handicapped, [unintelligible] it didn't have to grow much. Wasn't doing that well in the academic [unintelligible]. So probably '55 I went in the service, stayed 21 months and came back in '57 and when I came back, I had developed in the Army from 147-150 to 210, worked out a weight gain. So when I came back, Coach Boone gave me a scholarship.JP: (12:07) Wow.BC: (12:08) So and I actually ended up with Ed Emory who was a, later on here, a coach. The irony, he and I were cocaptains in 1959 so I thought that was quite an accomplishment, and I was pleased. Then I graduated in '59 and in '60 I took a coaching job up in Suffolk, Virginia, and stayed there for five years.JP: (12:48) Wow.BC: (12:48) And both of my kids were born in Suffollk.JP: (12:50) Oh, wow. Said you coached against your former,BC: (12:52) Yeah,JP: (12:52) Former coach?BC: (12:53) Former high school.JP: (12:54) In high school.BC: (12:55) Yeah. JP: (12:56) How, that,BC: (12:57) That was after I stayed in Virginia for five years, and then I wanted to move back to North Carolina, so I got a job as a head coach and athletic director at Albemarle Senior High School over near Charlotte, which is only about 40 miles from Rockingham, and it so happened that the schedule had been set up before I got there, we played Rockingham. And it happened to be in Albemarle, which [unintelligible]JP: (13:31) [Jeff laughs] BC: (13:26) It was quite an experience to have Coach Euestler bring his team, bring the Rockets in, and play with the Bulldogs. Somehow or another, I motivated our players to know that I thought it was before the game, and they played hard, we had a good team, loved that one end game. JP: (13:36) Now did the hype that usually surrounds, surrounds it, was it big? Like, student versus teacher, back then?BC: (13:52) It was for me, I don't think that Coach Euestler would remember that. He was a much better coach than I ever even dreamed of being, and I was, I had better material at that particular time, but I was lucky, we won by one touchdown [Jeff and Bill laugh] We should have won about three more. He lived up to his reputation as a coach, because he got a lot more out of his kids than I got out of mine. JP: (14:18) Wow. BC: (14:19) But then, when I left, I stayed three years at Albemarle then I came back to East Carolina as the freshman football coach in 1968 and Stasovich, he was a head football coach and athletic director here, so when I came back, the freshman could not play so I had my own team. JP: (14:45) How nice.BC: (14:47) And We played five games and I had five graduate assistants helping me so it was like having my own time. We didn't practice with the varsity or anything.JP: (14:57) So it's like a stepping stone, kind of, to the next level?BC: (15:01) So yeah in fact I always like to brag a little bit but, we played NC State here in 1960, I guess it was '68,JP: (15:13) Wow.BC: (15:14) And played them on Friday afternoon, their freshman team. JP: (15:17) Man, goodness.BC: (15:18) And wasn't anybody at the game, JP: (15:19) [Jeff laughs] BC: (15:20) But parents. It was, but it was,JP: (15:22) It was still something else, yeah.BC: (15:24) We won by two touchdowns. JP: (15:25) Yeah. BC: (15:26) Always say, well, you know, we beat State and we played here since we had our freshman, that was okay.JP: (15:31) [Jeff laughs]BC: (15:32) But it was quite a big play.JP: (15:34) How did they, how did they decide to get rid of that program? BC: (15:39) NCAA.JP: (15:41) NCAA.BC: (15:41) NCAA allotted, some of the good freshmen couldn't play varsity, like David Thompson, who played at NC State, he actually had to play on the freshman team. So he only, he was only allotted three years on the varsity. JP: (15:56) Oh, wow.BC: (15:56) And so they got, but then people got together and they wanted to let freshmen play and,JP: (15:58) Is that kind of leading up to the red shirt kind of deal a little bit?BC: (16:08) Yeah. So now the, you know, freshmen come in and they steal them. They don't have games like we had, but a lot of them play until their second year, and they'll [unintelligible] for one reason or another.JP: (16:20) How did it? [knocking sound and brief interruption in recording] Start back again, let's see here, where were we? How did it feel being away from home?BC: (16:41) You know, I guess I was, when I came along, and I came to East Carolina in '53 I must have been 17 or 18. And I really have never been, been back, and that's the way life is.JP: (17:13) Yeah.BC: (16:58) And I've been, always been an independent person, quick thinker. What do you do, it doesn't influence me at all, what I'm going to do, because I've been, I've always been the person to make a lot of decisions. So I really was never [unintelligible] on anybody.JP: (17:13) Wow. How often did you go back home? did you, or did you?BC: (17:13) When I got hungry I'd go home as usual,JP: (17:13) [Jeff laughs]BC: (17:13) I really always felt I was close to my mother and father as time went on we became a lot closer. But about, you know, average, it wasn't every weekend like some of the kids when they take of. Because it was four and a half hours.JP: (17:40) Yeah that's a big distance. So said you attended East Carolina in '53 now, what, when did you go into the Army?BC: (17:54) I went in the Army in the fall of, actually September of '55. JP: (18:01) Now, BC: (18:02) So I stayed a couple years, and then went to service and stayed two years and then came back eventually.JP: (18:08) Now, what, what made you decide to go into the Army? BC: (18:11) Well, there's several reasons, and I guess I would have to say that the primary reason was I knew that I was never going to be able to be a player to the quality they have to get a scholarship, everything else. Plus, during that period of time, I wasn't on track with academics, so those two put together, I said I need to be, need to grow up more, get more maturity, plus get my service obligation out of the way.JP: (18:41) Now, did you get to travel a lot in the Army? BC: (18:44) Not really. I actually went in service before they asked me and stayed eight weeks and then actually ended up [unintelligible] in Washington, outside of Washington, and played football.JP: (18:44) Yeah, wow.BC: (18:44) Two seasons in service, I was growing and back in those days service sport. JP: (19:05) Had a legue.BC: (19:05) Had a big league.JP: (19:06) Really? Oh wow. BC: (19:06) Now it's not big but it was, it was huge then.JP: (19:08) We never heard anything about sports. BC: (19:10) We had, we had college players on the team, and all that kind of stuff. JP: (19:13) Oh, wow.BC: (19:13) So it ended up very enlightening. JP: (19:20) Wow. Always knew intramurally, they had sports, but not the,BC: (19:24) Teams.JP: (19:25) Like teams.BC: (19:26) We could be, we competed against other bases,JP: (19:29) Oh, wow. BC: (19:30) With a eleven game schedule.JP: (19:31) How about that.BC: (19:32) And we played against guys, that have been in the pros and stuff like that. Quite a thrill.JP: (19:40) Learning experience too. When you came back to East Carolina, did you stay on campus, or did you live off campus? BC: (19:49) Yeah, we, I received a scholarship until I stayed in, in a dorm, and then I got married. Actually got married my senior year. Because I had been in the service I was a little older.JP: (20:05) Which dorms did you stay in?BC: (20:07) I remember staying in Jones.JP: (20:08) Stayed there the, BC: (20:09) And I remember Ragsdale was a dorm when I first came here.JP: (20:12) Now, there a lot of construction going on though then? When you came back?BC: (20:21) It had began, when I first came in fall of '53 we only had the Christenberry Gym was the only building that was located on there, you have to visualize that behind Christenberry was a baseball field. So that took a lot of space. And the only space, the only building was up there where you sign up, Graham building was the only building along with Wright Auditorium. You did have the theater over there, but that was over old Wahl-Coates school. But where, where the nursing building is, the Croatan, Brewster, chemistry building, Old, the Austin building. None of those were there.JP: (21:04) I've heard several people mention the old Austin building, now. BC: (21:08) Austin was over there where Jenkins is.JP: (21:11) Now, were you there when it got torn down, or? BC: (21:15) Yeah. That was a mistake.JP: (21:16) Yeah.BC: (21:17) Huge mistake.JP: (21:18) I heard it was a,BC: (21:19) It was a mistake. I happen to be on the living history committee, I might have told you this, but it'll be a mistake as big as if we tear Christenberry down,JP: (21:33) Yeah, wow.BC: (21:29) And we tear the Graham building down, or we tear, you know, the biology building, whatever it is, can't think of the name of it. We've got, we've, I think we've torn down all the buildings that need to tear down to have any history left. JP: (21:50) Really, Alexander was mentioned they should have remodeled BC: (21:54) Exactly.JP: (21:54) Instead of tore it down.BC: (21:55) There, that's where a lot of things went on. They had an org- big organ in there. My wife gave a concert in there, recital, and she graduated the Old Yellow incident. That's when the chan- the dean brought all the males up and had them at the auditorium. They had a few words to say about them. JP: (22:19) Now now, I read about that in a book we got at the beginning semester. Now,BC: (22:26) That was a big point, JP: (22:27) Did you,BC: (22:28) But that wouldn't that be viewed in today's society, that was a joke.JP: (22:35) [Jeff laughs]BC: (22:29) That would even, I bet they, oh, no way to compare it. JP: (22:29) Oh, yeah.BC: (22:29) I mean, a few few kids and a few girls had a party in a house. JP: (22:35) And was it,BC: (22:38) Even the party would be very mild in today's society. JP: (22:41) Kind of got the impression, was kind of like a, they didn't want to go to the formal kind of dance or whatever. BC: (22:57) Right, right.JP: (22:58) They kind of formed their own little little get together?BC: (23:00) Yeah. It's something similar to the one you have going on today in a much,JP: (23:05) [Jeff laughs] Did you get to go over there to the yellow house? BC: (23:35) I wasn't much of a partier. JP: (23:36) That you concentrate on,BC: (23:19) Like I tell you before I have a very strange philosophy, and I'm not the very religious person, but I go to the church. My wife is active as the organist at the St. James church. But from a standpoint of morality, I have my own ideas. Again, I'm not opposed to [phone rings] what everyone does and likes,JP: (23:37) Yeah.BC: (23:37) But the point was going to make is I've never really been a party person, but I'm not opposed to parties. JP: (23:52) [Jeff laughs]BC: (23:53) And I'm 60, I just turned 68 I never drank whisky, never had a beer, and I've never smoked, JP: (24:03) Wow.BC: (24:04) And it's not because I haven't been around them, my father was,JP: (24:09) Not a very,BC: (24:10) He was active in both of them, but I used to [unintelligible] JP: (24:15) [Jeff laughs]BC: (24:16) But the point is, I'm not influenced by what other people do, I have my own goals my own sights.JP: (24:24) Exactly.BC: (24:24) And that deals with finance, what I want to run, I drive around, I got an old car, and I don't care what people like it or not. My wife drives an old car. JP: (24:35) Sometimes,BC: (24:36) What I want [unintelligible]JP: (24:37) Oh yeah, definitely. A nice classic.BC: (24:38) I only had one rule when I was coaching, I'd say okay gang, here's the rule, if I do it, then you can do it. "Hey, what does that mean, coach?" I'll tell you what it means. I go downtown and get drunk, you can do it. Or, if I go out and run around, you can do it, and if I do pot, you can do it. I said you got to live, a person has to live their own example. I can't say, Do this and not do it myself. And I've never done it. That's just I was that high up. JP: (25:03) Wow.BC: (25:04) So that's unusual. I'm a weird guy, but that doesn't bother me.JP: (25:19) [Jeff laughs]BC: (25:21) If I wanted to do it, I'd do it, but I don't.JP: (25:23) There you go. Let me see, now, how did the campus look when you came, was it aesthetic kind of?BC: (25:34) It was a smaller one and it was old book. I think it looked more like what I say, a Davidson right now, but as we started growing and we came up, putting mortar up, and I give Dr. Jenkins credit for a great deal of the mortar that we got going on now. And then I give Eakin great credit for the aesthetics that we have going on the grounds and all the other things within the last 10-15, 10-12, years, we only started looking like that, I mean, bushes and shrubs and paint in the exterior buildings and the interior buildings. Amazing thing is that you go into any building, into any building on this campus today, there's a great effort going on to make all of it look good, and that, to me, is very pleasing. I'm not ashamed to have any guests come out outside and look at my house. And so I'm just sticking to them. I go in the Whichard building, I say, gosh, I can remember this one, this one was a music building.JP: (26:39) Goodness.BC: (26:39) But I see these gold letters and carpet and how it looks, Brewster the suites that these offices have now. So we've done a tremendous job, and it's going to get even better. JP: (26:54) I remember, it probably fell through, but they were trying to buy the land out there, east of the music building, I guess that's fell through.BC: (27:06) The boundaries were moving and then they going gobbling up some houses and things like that, of course, people come up protest. Eventually there'll be, people be ready to sell, and I think the university is buying it and doing anything like that [unintelligible], certainly handling that very professionally, that'd be great. We're going to grow the thing that I can speak to with growth, when I graduated in '59 or '60, I never dreamed that, that we would be as big as we are and that the growth of not only in athletics and academics and all of those are monumental growths. And I think we are beyond the level now that they can push it back. Up until several years ago, I said they can still throw the dirt in on us and cover is up but we're beyond that now.JP: (28:08) How do you see the projected 20, 20,000 plus, 25,000 plus students coming in? BC: (28:16) Oh, I don't know. I think we'll have that. It might be a little longer, but eventually we'll have it. The think that's an amazing part about that is a lot of times location, location, location is a key. Well, Greenville is not located. I mean, we used to have to take a horse and buggy to get up to Wilson. But the point I'm making is we're not on the interstate ground. We don't have we're not in the beach. We're still away from the beach, so we don't ever think of Greenville, but Greenville, we've been able to manufacture this into being one spot, it's unusual.JP: (28:59) Yeah.BC: (28:59) UNCW has a lot going for it cause of this location. Boone, where Appalachian is, okay, you got the mountains, you got the city, so it was always amazing to me, why in the world would anyone come to Greenville? And it's because it's [East Carolina. That's why I say we've grown to a certain point. I don't think anyone's pushing back.JP: (29:22) The reputation has made a name for itself. When you were playing football, how did it feel to be a walk on? Was that a challenge in itself, or? BC: (29:35) Everything's a challenge out there, but the challenge of what you do is the most important thing in life. I'm telling you. And those people don't have any challenges. I don't believe it.JP: (30:01) That's true to say. That's true.BC: (30:02) And I walked on and I saw five people in front of me, and I'm a little skinny legged thing, did I ever thought that I couldn't do it?JP: (30:02) No.BC: (29:56) It never crossed my mind. In fact, that challenge is one thing we do.JP: (30:02) And that really pushed you more.BC: (30:02) And I give you a little anecdote, I know I've talked a lot, Coach Boone, I remember when I first came here, and he was very reluctant, even to let me come out, but I don't blame him. As a coach, I look at me and say, hey, this kid. What is this? I don't need him. I need some players. I told him at that time, said Coach Boone, and I was using a blocking dummy, you know anything that's it, whatever you need, that's position I play, center, guard, linebacker, who cares. I wanted to play. JP: (30:46) Goodness.BC: (30:38) And man they knocked me around, I'm bleeding from the nose, and I knew what they were trying to do, he was trying to run me off. And running sprints and pushing us dead after practice. And I always remember Coach Boone again, and I respected him until the day he passed away and still, but I made a comment, I said Coach Boone, you trying to run me off. But the only way that I'm going to leave is on the stretcher, I'll be dead.JP: (31:09) Goodness. BC: (31:10) And I said, That's the way I play. So he kept me.JP: (31:12) Wow.BC: (31:12) But I can guarantee you the biggest shirt I wear were about a 9 or about a 10 maybe, I got a 12 and everything I had was something that was something out of stone age pants were too big. Shirt was too big.JP: (31:35) Goodness.BC: (31:35) Helment spin around on your head, didn't matter.JP: (31:37) Wow.BC: (31:38) That was a challenge.JP: (31:39) There you go.BC: (31:31) Today, challenge. Everything I do is a challenge. I tell people that every day. You want it done, go get it done.JP: (31:42) Positive way to look at stuff. I guess you have to.BC: (31:45) Oh sure, hey, I'm in my second year of working part-time, but I don't look at this as part-time. I've got a job to do, and whatever the hours, you want set hours? No, I don't have hours. I'll be here, six in the morning, and then when I get through it today, if it's three in the afternoon, or if it's noon, if it's at night, we'll do it. When I can't do that, then I'll send you the keys, and I'll be gone.JP: (32:20) Kind of, I guess, the question is, kind of, what, what influenced you to play, play football? Do you like sports in general, or did you play it often?BC: (32:33) I actually played baseball in high school. And then when all the big boys graduated, I was 5'4" I went out in football. I was a manager at that point and a coach, but I've always been fairly aggressive. I like aggressiveness. [unintelligible]JP: (32:52) What kind of experiences, some experiences that you had, traveling around with different teams and stuff like that, I guess. BC: (33:03) Do what now?JP: (33:04) What kind of like experiences did you have playing sports?BC: (33:09) You mean success of the team, or? JP: (33:11) Yeah, yeah.BC: (33:12) Oh sure, yeah. Well fortunately I played on some good teams. I made a minor contribution, I was never the strongest player but I was one of those pluggers that you have to have and, but I was one of those that every coach I think likes to have on the team, never missed a practice, and that would include service, Army, high school, whatever. JP: (33:40) Goodness.BC: (33:41) I won't say I wasn't hurting. But when you make a commitment to something, then you make a commitment to it.JP: (33:54) Yeah.BC: (33:54) You don't, well, I think if I feel good today, I'll go out there. JP: (33:57) You got to do it. BC: (33:58) You got to do it, and so- [Jeff interrupts]JP: (34:00) Did you have any, go ahead, sorry.BC: (34:01) All those things [unintelligible]JP: (34:07) Did you have any key injuries during your time?BC: (34:19) I made some injuries,JP: (34:19) [Jeff laughs]BC: (34:20) I used to, in my senior year, I used to have both my knees drained before I could practice. I'd go by the infirmary, they'd suck out some fluid, then I'd go out to practice. It wasn't anything, I never had any surgery on my knees or anything. In fact, today, I just played yesterday, I play three times a week back in my, [unintelligible] and still hanging in there pretty good, working out. JP: (34:41) Yeah, wow.BC: (34:42) [Unintelligible] and some others.JP: (34:44) Now, let's see, what position did you play?BC: (34:57) I was an end. Defensive end and offensive end.JP: (34:57) Then you say you laid some pretty good hits on them? BC: (35:00) I got hit, too. I always believe it's better to give than recieve.JP: (35:03) There you go. BC: (35:05) [Unintelligible]JP: (35:10) Now, were you involved in any other organizations besides sports or did that take up most of your time? BC: (35:19) Well I did, you know, some [unintelligible] clubs and a few things like that. And then when I got out at the, into the world, I've got, I joined the Lion's Club, worked for that civic club, most of the time, but most of it was dealing with my profession. That I coached and I came here.JP: (35:34) Now, going to the sports again, was there a big stadium that you played in, or?BC: (35:56) No, we played over there at, when I was in college, where Brewster building is, and the Croatan was the 50 yard line. And I guess they had, they must have had enough stands, actually, for a couple thousand people at most. But to me it looked big there in those days. It was big enough.JP: (36:25) When did Ficklen get built?BC: (36:09) Ficklen was about '62. And we brought Stasevich in, I was not here at the time, but we started out with one little small section on the south side over there, and that was it. And you see what we got today, 34,000. So anything's possible out of '62 or '64 I think we finished both sides. And closing it in.Speaker 1 (36:26) Now they are going to close it in? BC: (36:37) It'll be, my understanding, it'll be boxed on the south on the east end straight across, and then on the south side, they'll take the press box out and make another side like we've got on,JP: (36:48) Oh goodness.BC: (36:49) On the north side. JP: (36:50) Wow. BC: (36:51) Yeah. So if we live long enough.JP: (36:53) [Jeff laughs] BC: (36:54) And I think we will. JP: (36:55) Yeah, I thought eventually they would just completely circle it in. But I guess, the building,BC: (37:02) The building, JP: (37:06) Yeah, how has the campus changed? I know you mentioned some of the new buildings and stuff.BC: (37:12) It's changed in its, in its physical appearance, obviously, going from the bypass to the river, and now we've got another campus on the west end, and now we're talking about another campus out there where the Voice of America is. So the magnitude of the expansion is unbelievable. JP: (37:32) Yep it is, especially with,BC: (37:34) Unbelievable. They've had a lot of people that have to be credited with that, but I think you can put hand in hand in hand with Jenkins, obviously, and every chancellor before him, and then with Eakin, and the growth of the athletic contribution, along with the academic standards, programs that we have today, all these put together, think it they go together. JP: (38:01) Yeah.BC: (38:13) Plus, I have to say, when I left, the people that leave here, a lot of them are here for four years and say I can't wait to leave this place.JP: (37:34) Then they call. [Jeff laughs]BC: (37:34) They look around, they want to come back. And we have one of the most loyal followers that you could ever have. JP: (38:04) Very true. Very true.BC: (38:18) Once you're a pirate, that's it.JP: (38:22) That's it [Jeff laughs]. BC: (38:24) You'll be a pirate. I know I get on Logan about the fact that you're not from East Carolina and you haven't experienced being an East Carolina person competing against other schools in this state is very, very important, ranks at the top, as far as I'm concerned.JP: (38:46) Now were you here when, when they brought Coach Logan in?BC: (38:50) I was not active in athletics. Yeah, I've been, I've been back here in an academic and athletic capacity since 1968 so I actually only left. I was gone I guess eight years.JP: (39:06) Since that was a, coaching a high school and then coming back?BC: (39:10) I had eight years coaching in high school and then my graduation. Then I was brought back here.JP: (39:15) Oh wow.BC: (39:16) So from that point on, if you join together, '53 to now, pretty good time.JP: (39:25) You mentioned about some of the other teams that coached led to golf and then tennis.BC: (39:30) Well, when I got out of coaching, Coach Stasevich retired in '60, [knocking sound, brief interruption in tape] But go, so Coach Stasevich retired from coaching in '70 and he hired me as his business manager of athletics. So I got out of coaching in 1970 so here at East Carolina, I've been the business manager of athletics and the ticket manager, and then the next year he'd make me assistant athletic director, which he didn't have one, but I went in there, which means I was stadium operations and the Pirate Club, I was fortunate to be able to help set the Pirate Club up as it is today. And so as I was in that period of from '70-'75 I was the assistant associate, and that's when he put me in as a golf coach, whatever he needed. He would call in say, hey, you know, and that's okay. JP: (40:25) [Jeff laughs]BC: (40:29) So I did the golf, and then I immediately tried to give somebody that,JP: (40:34) [Jeff laughs] BC: (40:28) Soon as I got assigned to it, I got somebody, I got somebody here, but I did it two years. And all the golfers I had, they could tesify that "Yeah, that old coach wasn't [unintelligible] JP: (40:35) [Jeff laughs]BC: (40:37) But I was very critical of some of their actions. It was, but it was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about it. It's a very difficult sport, and they found out that they had to be in shape, because I can recall that I made them run up and down the stadium steps with golf bags loaded on. JP: (41:02) Goodness.BC: (41:02) And they hated it all.JP: (41:03) [Jeff laughs] Well,BC: (41:03) I said yeah but you got to walk 18 holes with the gold bags on your back so you got to be in shape. JP: (41:07) Definitely.BC: (41:07) And then coach Stasevich passed away in 1975 and I was elected to be the athletic director '75 to, and I stayed in there about a five year period. That was about all I could handle. Dr. Jenkins retired, and I had worked for him, and then we brought a new chancellor in, and I figured was time for me to get out. So I left in '80 and from 1980 until today, I've been in the academic side and working in the school, I mean the department of exercise sport science, and that I worked with associate dean and assistant dean and departmental chair, interims. So I had all of the administrative duties in our school over a period of years, and they spent, after I think about it, I've been athletics for 20-22, years. But it is, that that's really kept me going, new projects, a new interest in different things. Having good people to work with.JP: (42:16) Yeah, that's the key.BC: (42:17) We are fantastic, let me tell you. JP: (42:19) That's the key.BC: (42:19) Yeah, the people, the young students, these students do work harder, do more today than we did in my day [knocking sound] and we do a lot more stuff. So that's the way it worked up to that particular point. Finished up in 1980 and up till today, I'm in the academic part.JP: (42:50) Now, with athletic director, did you have to appropriate funds to each organization? BC: (42:55) [unintelligible] Back in those days, one of the biggest things that we did during that period of time, Dr. Jenkins and I made the major decision to get out of the Southern Conference, which was big time, because that was a conference that we were comfortable in, and so forth. But the division one A and one double A was their board and we we had to make a decision. So we made a decision to go one A with football. And if we hadn't made that decision, then we would then have still been in the Southern Conference, and I don't think that we would have stadium that we got today. Don't think we'd have the publicity and beyond that, in fact, I know we won't. So we've been rectified. We were criticized a lot going at that time, it was very difficult to come up to this point and I want to give Hammerick and the people that have really got us into a conference now the credit. But it was very difficult.JP: (43:42) It's amazing that they're in a really good conference, actually. BC: (43:53) Yeah, JP: (43:53) Conference USABC: (43:54) Conference USA's a good conference. I'd like to be in Big East, JP: (43:57) Yeah, yeah you know, [Jeff laughs]BC: (43:59) But that's the other point, that's another story.JP: (44:03) Now the basketball, it has pretty good matchups going on. BC: (44:07) Oh yeah, that's gonna be a good workout for them.JP: (44:11) Nice struggle to begin the season. BC: (44:13) But what I always said, and I don't, people can say what they want to, but we built a house with football as our sport.JP: (44:20) There you go.BC: (44:21) Now I dont, you know, if you want to mention money, money coming into the Pirate Club. And I don't mind being important on that, in fact all I want is to win, but life is going to go on if we don't. But if we don't win in football,JP: (44:42) That's going to be,BC: (44:42) That's going to be a tragedy.JP: (44:43) That's true. I think more emphasis is placed on football.BC: (44:44) It is. We decided in 1971 I said, we don't emphasize, 1961 that football was going to be the emphasis in North Carolina. And the reason for that was that Atlantic Coast Conference has all basketball, and there wasn't any way we're going to get any publicity, basically, unless we did something football. And so all the PR we get now, primarily in sports is from football and the success we have. You never see, you can never see, and I hope I live long enough to see that, that us compete against Chapel Hill in basketball and win, and have a chance to win.JP: (45:20) Be a while. BC: (45:20) Be a while. I hope it happens. But basketball, football we played Chapel Hill in 1977 and we beat them. In fact, we beat them in '75, the day after he died, we beat Chapel Hill, that was 1975 , October the 17th or something like that,JP: (45:34) Goodness, I thought we should have won that game. BC: (45:36) Yeah, JP: (45:37) Couple, couple weeks ago, should have won. Now what was the Has-Beens softball team? Remember doing some background information. You remember the Has-Beens softball team?BC: (46:04) I don't remember that. We just played some softball during the summer. That was a bunch ofJP: (46:14) Messing around?BC: (46:14) Bunch old heads, I guess. I didn't know much [unintelligible].JP: (46:06) Do you think [unintelligible] teams in the Conference USA has made us more determined to get focused on where we should, football should go, or?BC: (46:31) Not necessarily. I think being in a conference has a [unintelligible]. [phone rings] But if you look at 1960 we played these people anyway. [brief interruption in recoding] If you look at early '80s there, where we beat, got close to beat Miami and Florida and all. So from that point on, our playing the teams, it's been a big deal. We're competing maybe more consistently, and there's a lot more money in the program. I mean, you know, the guys are driving Cadillacs back now and then, back in those days, they were driving Fords. The coaching staff finances are much higher. They're traveling in airplanes, and we used to ride on the busses and station wagons. So all of the, relative to it, they're getting a much, getting much more money, but overall we're getting a lot more recognition. So it's relative to what time is. JP: (46:31) It's true.BC: (46:31) But the competition is good to be playing these teams [unintelligible].JP: (46:32) You think Steve Logan will stay around for, for a good while, or? Is it just depending on the team success?BC: (47:42) Steve's done a very good job, and he's, he's been a, he's been a coach that is well versed in the fundamentals and knows the game and everything like that. And a credit, and his longevity is probably right now as long as any coach who we've had in a head coaching position, yeah. Whether he'll stay around or not, if somebody comes in with big money, I wouldn't be the first to advise him to take it and go.JP: (48:05) It's like what you're saying, you got to do what you have to.BC: (48:11) Sure. I would say this, if Steve Logan leaves, there'll be another coach. And when Louis left, we got Logan, and when we've had coaches before them, so we'll have coaches in the schools and presidents leave, ADs leave and all that.JP: (48:30) It grows, yeah.BC: (48:31) We're gonna keep growing.JP: (48:32) That's the big thing. BC: (48:34) There's going to be people like you to keep it up. Okay?JP: (48:39) That's it. But thank you very much. BC: (48:42) All right.JP: (48:42) Really appreciate it.BC: (48:44) My pleasure. I appreciate you coming over. JP: (48:45) Oh, you're welcome. BC: (48:46) Good. I gotta run over here [END OF TAPE]