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2012

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Oral History InterviewJeff Prince, interviewerRudolph Alexander, intervieweeGreenville, NC[BEGINNING OF SIDE 1]JP: 0:00 His house on Eleanor Street in Greenville, North Carolina. I'm going to just go ahead and ask Mr. Alexander if have permission to tape him. If so, just say, sure,RA: 0:09 Yes. Yes.JP: 0:09 All right, we'll just get started here. Let's see you just start, where, where are you originally from?RA: 0:18 I was born in Wayne County in North Carolina, and graduated from Goldsboro High School and attended East Carolina, earned a bachelor's and master's degrees there, and after two years in the Army, was employed by the Boy Scouts of America for about six and a half years as a district scout executive, and then I learned that East Carolina had created new position. I learned about it on a Friday morning. Asked for an interview on Saturday morning and was hired Saturday about noon, so. [Jeff laughs] JP: 1:09 That's pretty quick, RA: 1:11 So that brings us up to now.JP: 1:12 Alright, I guess the, what was it like growing up as a child?RA: 1:18 Well it, I was born in 1930 so I'm a child of the Depression era, but I really don't have any memory of the Depression. My father was a salesman, and unfortunately, when I was not quite seven, he was killed in an automobile accident, and my mother later remarried, and I had a fine childhood. I, we had a nice home, and alright so when people talk about the hard times depression, I really don't. I don't relate to that because I don't know anything about it and of course, I was 11 when World War II began, so I have very, very strong memories of those years.JP: 2:15 Interesting.RA: 2:15 Yeah.JP: 2:18 Did you live on a farm or is it a pretty nice house, or?RA: 2:22 We lived in a small community north of Goldsboro called Belfast. I think for those days we, people would say we had a nice home. We had, it was a two story home, the lot was about an acre, and we had two bathrooms and so,JP: 2:45 A lot of people killed for two bathrooms these days. [Jeff laughs]RA: 2:48 So I think we had a pretty nice home. It was my job to mow that acre of lawn with a real push mower. JP: 2:55 Oh wow.RA: 2:55 And so I stayed busy, when I was in the fifth grade, I got a paper route and handled a bicycle 10 miles a day, delivering papers after school, and when I got older, I worked at JC Penney company after school, when I when I was in high school.JP: 3:19 Wow, let's see, what did your mother do?RA: 3:24 My mother was a teacher before I was born, she attended East Carolina too. In those days when women married, they could no longer teach. So after she married my father, her teaching career was over, but she had taught for about five years and, and she enjoyed teaching. I'm sure she was a fine teacher. When I entered the first grade, she had taught first grade, so when I entered the first grade, I was really ready for the second grade, because she had taught me [Jeff interrupts].JP: 4:02 Taught you already? Oh wow.RA: 4:03 Yeah so I think they made a mistake [Jeff laughs] by putting me in the second grade, because I was bored to death. [Jeff laughs]JP: 4:09 Were you that much advanced already?RA: 4:11 I beg your pardon?JP: 4:12 You were that much advanced already, or? RA: 4:14 Well I, my mother had, had taught a, the things a first grader should know. So if you want to say that's advanced, so I was [Jeff laughs]. I have one sister and the first grade teacher asked my mother to please not do that to my sister so she wouldn't be bored in first grade.JP: 4:36 How many brothers and sisters do you have.RA: 4:38 I just have one sisterJP: 4:40 Younger or older? RA: 4:40 She's two and a half years younger.JP: 4:42 Okay, I have a younger sister myself, three years younger, see so your mother being a school teacher, and what kind of ideals were were placed on, on you and your father, I guess?RA: 4:59 Well, my my my father was very religious man, and, well, my mother was too, so. And, and my stepfather was, I would say, also a very religious man. And they were all good, solid citizens. And doing a good job working, the work ethic was instilled in me from the very beginning to, that no, there is no free lunch.JP: 5:38 [Jeff laughs] Very true, [unintelligible].RA: 5:39 That you work for what you get, you, you learn all you can and, and you apply yourself, and you do not associate with people who are in any way going to cause you to stray from the proper way, and to, to respect other people and their property, and to be a good citizen.JP: 6:11 Yeah, I think my parents instilled the same thing in me. Just work hard and from the get go, and that kind of idea, same as you were talking about, so let's see, how would you, you go into school, back in, with, like, elementary, middle school, high school?RA: 6:31 Well, I through, through about the first seven grades or so I, I think I can say I led my class. I was a good student, but for some stupid reason, I think when I got to be about in the eighth grade, I decided that making good grades and being a real good student was sort of a nerdy thing. I know nobody at that time had ever heard of the word nerd, but I guess we could use it today, so that, that you were you were out of step with all your friends if you did that. So I must say, during, certainly during high school, I probably didn't carry my books home and study more than 10-12, times. JP: 7:30 Oh wow [Jeff laughs]RA: 7:31 Four years of high school I, I could sit down before an exam and read a little bit and go in and pass, so. [Jeff laughs] I didn't worry about it, it was more fun to, to play in the high school band and to do things with your friends. And there were all those girls to,JP: 7:55 Oh there you go.RA: 7:58 To date them all. [Jeff laughs]JP: 8:04 What kind of things did y'all like do, like we had to go to the movies here or go out dancing, or? RA: 8:10 Well, we we were interested in sports. A lot of my friends and I, in the spring and summer, we played baseball, and in the fall, we played football. In the winter, basketball. And as I said, until I was in high school, I had a paper route, which took at least a couple of hours a day after school, so that kept me busy during, during the week. But on weekends, we played ball, and then none of us had automobiles. Our parents did and you, you would only get the car one time in the weekend. So my friends, we would share one would get the car Friday night, one Saturday night and one Sunday night. And of course, it was, it was absolutely against our rules to have any dates on Sunday afternoons that was time to play ball. But we would, we would triple date [Interviewer laughs] on Friday and Saturday and Sunday night, so you don't get in a lot of trouble when you have that many people in the car [Jeff laughs]. So we had a lot of fun and and I have very fond memories over here. I hear a lot of people say, gee, I wish I could have done this or that. I don't think I would have changed much, I had a great time. JP: 9:42 Now was the automobile something to fascinate about, like it is now, or?RA: 9:46 Yeah, everybody wanted one, but we didn't have the money to do it. I was saving some money to, go to college to. I saved enough money to cover my costs in first year of college, and I was proud of that, and so I had no real plans to buy a car. JP: 10:11 Well, what kind of subjects were being taught back in high school?RA: 10:19 Well, I suppose, I'm not familiar with what they're teaching now, but we had, of course, every year you had English and had a couple of years of mathematics, they were required, two years of algebra, and then you could take geometry and two years in foreign language, a year of American history, two years of science, and then, and as I said, I played in the band all years I was in high school. JP: 10:58 Yeah, what instrument?RA: 10:59 I played a French horn. JP: 11:01 Oh wow.RA: 10:58 I wasn't very good at it, [Jeff laughs] and I developed a love for music early on, my mother saw to it that my sister and I got to attend concerts in Goldsboro. We had the community concert series, and artists were brought in. We attended all of those, and one of the electives in high school, it's a music appreciation course, and that enriched my interest in music. So I always enjoyed music. JP: 11:01 Good.RA: 11:01 Being a Southerner, one would think country music, but I really never cared for country music. JP: 11:01 Oh wow. RA: 11:47 There are a few instruments enjoy, or that I enjoy hearing. I've always liked the banjo, [Jeff laughs] but not real, real country, country type music.RA: 11:53 Like a bluegrass, kind of.RA: 11:54 A little bit. JP: 11:54 Yeah okay. So let's see, how did your parents feel you're going to, going off to school?RA: 12:00 Well, of course, JP: 12:00 Or off to college, RA: 12:01 They were, they were very much in favor of it. And I came to East Carolina, really, because I didn't like a foreign language in high school, I took two years of Spanish. I didn't enjoy it. And when I decided to look around for a college or university to attend. I found from checking that at East Carolina you could get a degree without two years of foreign language. And I said, that's the place for me. [Jeff laughs] And I thought about maybe going to Chapel Hill, but you had to take two years of foreign language there, and I wasn't interested. So I came to East Carolina, and I immediately fell in love with the place. And I'm very happy that I came. And those were wonderful years. I loved every day of it. [Jeff laughs] I think any student who attends college or university and does not recognize that those are probably the greatest years of your life, JP: 13:12 Definately.RA: 13:13 That student has made a mistake. [Jeff laughs] JP: 13:16 Yeah, like when I first came to East Carolina, I was like, Wow, this, this is really nice. And then when I went back home, I decided I was like, went to UNCW and this is, like, this is not a place for me. So I decided to come back to where I wanted to graduate from. I did, I made that my goal to graduate from East Carolina because it is really, a really good college, a little hands on, everybody, teachers care about your performance, and that was my opinion of my department and several other classes specifically. RA: 13:53 Well, when I came to East Carolina as a student, it was much, much smaller than it is now. The first year I was here, it was still East Carolina Teachers College, I believe the second year it was changed to East Carolina College, and we were very proud of that. We thought, gee, this, this is really moving uptown. But I enjoyed those years, so much that I went straight through except one summer session, and in three years and nine months, I had both my bachelor's and master's degree. JP: 14:32 Wow.RA: 14:33 So, and I don't mean to imply that I was all that brilliant, and I just, I just had a wonderful time, and just went after it.JP: 14:42 Yeah.RA: 14:42 Because it was just a great life. JP: 14:47 What did you get your degrees in?RA: 14:49 My undergraduate degree is in social studies with a minor in English, social studies included history, political science, a little bit of economics, primarily history, and a master's degree in education, school administration with a minor in history.JP: 15:18 I wanted to be a high school math teacher, then it's like when I started getting into the upper level classes, you had to start taking these tests to, in the school of education before you could start taking upper level classes at that department. So that kind of distracted me, so you had to pay out all this money. And then, so I chose geography and math for some odd reason and fell in love with it, and that's what I tell everybody. So once you found a subject that you absolutely love, stick with it.RA: 15:49 Well, I felt that way about history. I took as many elective courses as I could in history in addition to those required, so history and geography classes, of course is interesting to me. JP: 16:06 How were the professors back then?RA: 16:09 Well, I liked everyone, and I thought we had some excellent faculty when I came the student body numbered, as I recall, maybe 1,600 and it was growing very rapidly, but you knew everybody on campus, and [Rudolph clears throat] Excuse me. The faculty knew you. And I did something that I think caused me to be really known by everybody. I organized the college Republican club. JP: 16:44 Oh wow.RA: 16:46 I grew up in a family that had deep roots in the Republican party. My family history goes all the way back, of course, prior to the Civil War and the most of the members of the family, were, back then, members of the Whig Party. They were, they were never Democrats. So after the Republican party came into existence, and after the Civil War, they became Republicans and, and so I was rocked in that cradle, and it was very important to me, and I found East Carolina had a College Democrats organization. And I thought, well, gee, there needs to be, [Jeff interrupts] JP: 17:29 A Republican.RA: 17:30 [Jeff laughs] Anther point of view expressed here. And so I rounded up a few like minded friends and, and I spearheaded the effort, but I didn't do it by myself, and we organized the College Republicans and were active in the campaign in 1952 on behalf of General Eisenhower and that was, that was a lot of fun.JP: 17:55 [Jeff laughs] Did you have a lot of friends that came with you from like your hometown?RA: 17:56 There were quite a few students, graduates of Goldsboro High School who came here. Some were close friends, and of course, I knew them all, but I didn't come for that reason. I came as I said, I didn't want to take a foreign language, and that may sound silly but, JP: 18:20 I think a lot of people are like that these days.RA: 18:22 It's the truth, it's why I came, but I knew I could get a good education here, and unlike in high school, I realized, well, first of all, I didn't come immediately after high school graduation. I really didn't know what I wanted to do, and I had been working at JC Penney company in Goldsboro, and they offered me a full time position and painted a picture of an opportunity to grow with that company and get in the managerial training program and so forth. So I started full time employment with that company, but over in the fall of the year, I thought this really isn't what I want. I want to go to school. So I came to East Carolina in the beginning of winter quarter. We were on the quarter system back then, beginning of winter quarter in 1949 which means I enrolled about the first of December in 1949.JP: 19:34 Then when did you officially get out? Graduated.RA: 19:37 Well, I completed the bachelor's degree in '52 and received went through graduation exercises in May of '53 and in August, went back through and was awarded my master's so I was all finished in August of '50, 1953, and was drafted in the Army. JP: 20:08 So you were drafted?RA: 20:10 Yeah I didn't, I didn't run down and join. [Jeff laughs] I went in the Army on December 7, 1953 and I had been very fortunate in that my grades were good and I had been given military deferments or educational deferments, I guess, called each each quarter. And so after finishing, I knew that the draft was still hanging over my head, so I just went to my draft board and told them, if I've got it, let's get it over with. [Jeff laughs]JP: 20:50 There you go.RA: 20:50 And so we got it over. They sent me a notice. And on December 7, Pearl Harbor Day, 1953, I was on my way to Fort Jackson, South Carolina. JP: 21:01 Did you go overseas or anywhere?RA: 21:03 Yes, I did. I was very fortunate, at that time we were deeply involved in Korea. It was really a stalemate then, the peace negotiations were in progress, but it was a very difficult time there, and I was fortunate. I, after completing the signal school at Camp Gordon, Georgia, I was sent to Germany and I was a member of the Army of Occupation in Germany from September 1954 until November 1955 and I was sent home.JP: 21:51 Did you do any traveling? Or were you allowed to travel over there?RA: 21:54 Oh yes, I had quite a bit of leave time and spent time in the Netherlands. Well, I went all over West Germany and the Netherlands, and went to Austria, Switzerland, Italy and France, and was on temporary duty in England for about a month. So it really whetted my appetite for travel, and I've been interested in traveling ever since, and have been very fortunate, and I've been able to visit a lot of places.JP: 22:40 Now I'm jealous, because I want to do some traveling, really bad, and I think I plan on doing that when I get out, hopefully after, after graduating, I want to go to Australia and I want to go to Germany. I heard a lot of things about Germany, really good things.RA: 22:51 Well, it's, I haven't been back to Germany since, since I left in 1955. You mentioned Australia, New Zealand, my wife and I were in Australia and New Zealand last November, December, and to me, Australia is the most fascinating country I've ever visited. It's more like America than any other country I've ever visited. Not only do the people like Americans, they like our country, they like our government. They appreciate what we did for them in World War II. We really saved Australia from the Japanese. At the time Pearl Harbor occurred, the Australian armed forces were almost totally in North Africa fighting Rommel, the British, the Australians did not have in total full a division left in Australia and the Japanese had just moved in. The Americans came in, and they were very very grateful. So it's nice to visit [Interviewer laughs] a country where people,JP: 24:01 Definitely.RA: 24:02 People like you and like your company.JP: 24:04 Yeah, kind of wild these days with Afghanistan going on.RA: 24:10 Yeah, it's a difficult situation.JP: 24:17 Going back to the high school roots now, how many people would attend high school?RA: 24:24 In my high school in Goldsboro, we had, I believe, about 600 students in the high school, and my graduating class had 142-143, something like that.JP: 24:48 Was it a big shock from going to that to like, a college?RA: 24:53 Well, I don't think all that much. We had some, some very good teachers in high school and and I think I was much better prepared than a lot of students who had made better grades in high school than I, but had come from very small schools throughout eastern North Carolina in particular. So I, no it wasn't all that much of a shock [Interviewer laughs], and when I came I was determined to do a good job, and so I studied and I made good grades, and I'm very proud of that, because I worked for it, but I still was able to to do other things too. Back then you could pick your professors and the times for your classes. So I chose all my classes in the morning hours and worked at the JC Penney store, which was downtown in Greenville at that time, down on Evans Street. I worked there every day from 1:00 till 5:30 and all day Saturday, and carried a full load, and I did not miss a single football game, basketball game, or concert. I attended everything because I felt, well, I might learn something, I might enjoy it, I had a full college life. JP: 26:37 Oh good.RA: 26:39 I used to, in orientation, when I was working, I used to stress to the students, incoming students, that if you attend the university and graduate in four years with all As, you have failed to attend the concerts, the plays, the athletic events, you may have a degree, but you will not have an education. It's all part of it. JP: 27:04 Oh, definitely you need that experience. RA: 27:08 Yeah. JP: 27:08 Now, you said you didn't have much time to use a car back in high school. Now, did you use it a lot in college?RA: 27:17 The only people who had automobiles back then were the veterans. ECU for many, many years, has had all kinds of parking problems. I assure you, in the early '50s there were no parking problems [Jeff laughs] because, as I just said, only the veterans. The ex GIs had had automobiles, had money for cars, and you didn't feel limited or underprivileged by not having a car because nobody else had one. So it was no problem. JP: 27:56 Did you live on campus, or?RA: 27:59 I lived off campus for a couple of years. Dormitory space was very limited, but Slay Hall was the first large men's residence hall built, and I moved into Slay Hall the second year it was in operation, and so I was about half and half, the first two years off campus and after that [unintelligible].JP: 28:30 How was that from, going from living off campus to living on campus? Was it more convenient, or?RA: 28:36 Well, yeah it was more convenient, but in the place I lived, there were about 30 other guys living there too when I lived off campus, so it was about like a residence hall. We ran our own affairs, and we had a lot of veterans living in the place. And so we fellows who were fresh from high school got a real education from [Jeff laughs] from being around those guys. So it was, it was, it was fun, and it was very beneficial, too. Those guys had the GI Bill and they got free books, free papers, [Jeff laughs] plus, I mean free, free notebooks and paper and pens and pencils, all school supplies they needed were free. JP: 29:39 And how did everybody see that? RA: 29:39 Well, that was fine. What I'm getting ready to tell you, some of those guys wanted degrees, but I don't think they cared too much about getting a good education. So very quickly, I had classes with some of them, and they saw I took good notes. They saw me taking notes in class, and they assumed, I suppose, that I was taking good notes. So very quickly, we worked out a deal those I would be in class with would supply me with the textbooks, [Jeff laughs] the pens, pencils, paper, all my supplies, if before each test, I would get them down to my room and review my notes with them [Jeff laughs]. Well, I really was the beneficiary of all that, because when you, when you review your notes or teach other people, you learn, you learn more than they, so to make this story short, I went through my entire college days at East Carolina, and I bet I didn't buy a half dozen books. They were all supplied [Jeff laughs]. These guys kept me in books, and everything and, and I,RA: 30:52 Yeah that's really good.RA: 30:53 Part of the deal, JP: 30:54 Pretty good.RA: 30:54 I reviewed the class notes with them. They felt they had a good deal. I had a good deal, and that's the way I,JP: 31:04 Wish we could be so lucky today because I tell you what, it costs a lot.RA: 31:09 Well, it made it fairly inexpensive to attend the university. When you have a deal like that. It was a good deal. They got what they wanted. I got what I wanted, and everybody was happy about it.JP: 31:26 [Jeff laughs] That's awesome. That's awesome. Let's see, well, how'd you feel about being away from home? RA: 31:35 Oh it didn't bother me at all. I've never been a homesick person. I certainly loved my family, my parents, my sister and my grandmother lived with us, and she was a dear lady, and I loved her dearly, and I would,could see them from time to time, but I've never been a home sick type of person, it didn't bother me.JP: 31:58 Now, let's see, how has the campus changed. RA: 32:02 Well, it's,JP: 32:04 Do you visit often, or?RA: 32:06 Do I visit often? JP: 32:07 Yeah.RA: 32:08 I'm on campus frequently. I attend all the athletic events, well, at least the football and basketball and occasionally a baseball game. I attend all the performing arts series events and travel film events. And so I'm on campus quite often, and keep in touch. It's not only the university, but Greenville. They both changed tremendously in the last 50 years, a person who's maybe been away 50 years would come back, would find some landmarks, but other than that, you wouldn't recognize it.JP: 32:52 Yeah, it's changed in the, since I've been here in '92, it's, it's changed a lot.RA: 32:58 Well, and I think Chancellor Eakin deserves a lot of credit for beautifying the campus, the university, the physical plant was expanding tremendously and, and I think in the early years, some serious mistakes were made. The architecture did not blend. You would have buildings constructed that just looked totally out of place with the rest of the campus. And expansion seemed to be the name of the game, rather than expanding with a purpose or with a theme, and Chancellor Eakin came in and saw the need for campus beautification, and the campus is prettier now than it's ever been.JP: 33:56 We were looking at a book about East Carolina and trying to distinguish the landmarks and everything, like, the buildings, and what were some of the buildings that were built for, when you were attending?RA: 34:09 Well, where the Jenkins, Leo Jenkins Art Building is now located, Austin building was there. That was the first academic building at East Carolina, and it was torn down in the '60s. I believe. I'm not positive, but I think that was the time, and it's a shame, because it was a well constructed building, very thick walls. It should have been renovated. You travel abroad. You go to universities in Europe, and throughout the world, and particularly in Europe, and they are still using buildings that are hundreds of years old, and that building should have been renovated, but it's a shame it was, was torn down because it was, it was the first academic building. It had a real style to it, and it's a shame. But [Rudolph clears throat] excuse me, we have, we have retained and improved others. Wright auditorium, Wright building was one of the original buildings, and instead of destroying it, it was renovated, and it is now a very fine concert hall, and I had the privilege of chairing the committee that made the final renovations in that building, and I'm very proud of what they did. JP: 35:48 It is very nice. RA: 35:50 It's an important facility on the campus, and I'm pleased we've saved other buildings. JP: 36:01 Good. Yeah, it was amazing to me that when, the last time I was, as an undergrad, think, or it was a little bit of time afterwards, when I went back home, I heard they were going to try to buy out the land there, I guess, east of campus, I guess, if you're looking over the [unintelligible] [Rudolph interrupts]RA: 36:28 Well, yeah, there was a master plan, I think, developed a few years ago to greatly expand campus, and it met an awful lot of opposition in the city, and it's been revised, and I'm not privy to all the details or latest plan, but East Carolina has been growing from the very beginning, and it will continue to grow, and it will need more space, and I'm sure arrangements will be worked out where property can be purchased and expansion take place, but those are things for the future and for right now, the campus has, has buildings on about all the available space, I think so, not too far into the future. I'm sure some expansion will be required.JP: 37:33 It's amazing they want to project, I think was like, in the upper 20s, mid 20s, projected RA: 37:39 That is my understanding.JP: 37:40 For the student body. What kind of activities did y'all do outside of school? You said you worked a lot. Did you have time for any fun outside of?RA: 37:53 Oh sure. Back then, dances were very important to students. We would bring in big dance bands of the day for dances in Wright building at that time, Wright building had a flat floor. It was a multi purpose building, and we had dances there, and they were well, well attended. Well, they were packed so you almost stood in the same place, [Interviewer laughs] to dace with your partner because students enjoyed them. We had all kinds of things. As I mentioned, we had a full athletic program. We even had boxing back then. JP: 38:41 Yeah, that's what, I saw that, boxing.RA: 38:42 Yeah, and it was, it was great fun to attend the boxing matches. So there were athletics, and we had some concerts. You, artists were brought in to perform and there were clubs. I was a member of the International Relations Club, was later president of that organization. I've already mentioned the College Republicans, and the playhouse had a number of plays each year I handled the ticket sales, business management, for one of those shows. And there was just a full range of activities back then. And we, of course, a newspaper, the yearbook, and we had plenty to do and had a lot of fun doing it. [Jeff laughs]RA: 39:33 Did you know what you wanted to major in? Right? Like,RA: 39:53 Oh, absolutely. I, in, from, from my early years, history was very important to me. I can remember as a child sitting by the radio and listening to every session of the Republican National Convention and the Democrat National Convention as early as, as 1940, I was 10 years old. Even back in 1936 I was only six and and I listened to some of the political speeches, Roosevelt, President Roosevelt and Alf Landon in that campaign. So, I was always fascinated with politics and history and, and I read history books for fun, like people read novels. I never cared [Jeff laughs] all that much for fiction. And so, yeah, history was what I was interested in. I thought about teaching. I also considered going to law school, but after my years at East Carolina, I've already mentioned going into the Army and I married, and responsibilities kept me from going further. I did go to Chapel Hill and Duke and talk with the deans of the respective graduate schools, and I seriously considered going to Duke and working on a PhD in history, but a job at East Carolina opened and I took it, and I was very happy [Jeff laughs] in my career. I had 33 years at East Carolina and it was a great career, I enjoyed it immensely, and I hope I made some contributions. [Jeff laughs] I believe I did. JP: 42:13 I think so. Yes. See now, how did you meet your wife? Did you meet her in school, or?RA: 42:21 I know, on a blind date.JP: 42:24 That was during school, or?RA: 42:27 No that was after I, JP: 42:28 After you got out? RA: 42:29 After I got out.JP: 42:30 Okay now how was that set up? RA: 42:33 A friend of mine, her friends can [Jeff laughs] [Unintelligible]JP: 42:38 Yeah, we did interview, I think a sample interview the other day in class, a lady was telling about how she got set up on a date. It was pretty interesting.JP: 43:00 [Rudolph clears throat] Pardon me, it happens. [Jeff laughs]JP: 43:00 Now did you play any sports, like on a team, or anything, or just attended?RA: 43:01 No, I wasn't good enough. We played sandlot baseball, football things up through high school, after that [unintelligible] [Jeff laughs].JP: 43:15 Do you remember the big yellow house? Kind of a, it was a party?RA: 43:20 Old Yellow?JP: 43:21 The Old Yellow? JP: 43:21 No, I, I've heard all kinds of stories about it, but I really don't, the problems occurred there. Before I began my career at East Carolina, it was in the period between my student days and coming back as an employee of the university. So I've heard the stories, but I don't know anything about it. [Jeff laughs]JP: 43:49 Now were you good, or were you glad to be back after you, after the Army, or everything? Was it different coming back?RA: 43:58 Well, as I said, after the Army, I worked six and a half years with the Boy Scouts, and that was a fine career, too. And I think many of the things I learned as a professional executive with the Boy Scouts have carried me through all my professional career, learning to organize groups and work with volunteers was the backbone of that program, and that's what you do in the kind of job I had at university, volunteers were students, whereas in scouting, they were older people, adults, but the principles were the same. So that was very important, but getting back to East Carolina was almost a gift from heaven to me, because, as I said, I had a real love affair with East Carolina when I was a student, and to have the opportunity to come back and be a part of the university administration for all those years was very important to me. It was far more important than money. [Jeff laughs] And studies have shown that people are happier in life if they really enjoy their jobs, far more so than if they just make lots of money.JP: 43:59 I think I agree with you [Jeff laughs] RA: 44:14 So we all, we all want to make enough money to live fairly comfortably and do some of the little extra things, but money certainly isn't everything.JP: 45:28 Yeah, truth, truth.RA: 43:58 And if you work at a university, you're not going to get rich, you're not going to get wealthy, but you have, you associate with some of the finest people, both students and faculty and administrators, and you have opportunities to learn new things and explore new opportunities all the time, and it's just a fantastic atmosphere.JP: 46:16 So you kind of become wealthy and in a aesthetic.RA: 46:19 Yeah, well it, you, you can be enriched in many ways, and I feel that my life has been greatly enriched by the experiences that I shared at East Carolina.JP: 46:40 With the International Relations Club, now, that was back during when Russia and the US had their problems against the Cold War. What's going on then? Kind of activities did y'all center around?RA: 46:54 Well, we [END OF SIDE 1]

[BEGINNING OF SIDE 2]JP: 0:01 The International Relations Club?RA: 0:03 We were always involved in learning more about the relations between the United States and our allies and those who were our adversaries. We were also focused a good bit on the growth of the United Nations and its role in world affairs. So, we we brought in a number of speakers to enrich our programs, and I think the International Relations Club added a great deal to the education of those of us, particularly, who were majoring in history.JP: 0:55 Looking through some of the yearbooks, I saw snow and all the pictures I saw with snow, now, how often did it, did it actually snow? [Jeff laughs]RA: 1:12 Well, if you have been in eastern North Carolina a while, you know that about every 30 years or so we get a blizzard. [Jeff laughs] Other than that, normally you get a dusting, big flakes, beautiful scene coming down the snow, and an hour or so later, it's all gone. JP: 1:37 Yeah.RA: 1:38 So occasionally you get a snow. And when I was in school as a student, I don't remember any deep snows that we had. But while I was employed at the university, we had in the in the early '80s we had a tremendous blizzard here. Snow was was more than knee deep, it was, just paralyzed the campus and and the whole eastern part of the state.JP: 2:16 I can't remember that. And when you got to your position at East Carolina, what was your starting position, were you? RA: 2:24 I was employed as Assistant Dean of Student Affairs, and my job was to work with the Student Government Associationand primarily to advise their committees on entertainment, and films, and lectures, and to be responsible for reservation of meeting facilities on campus and to coordinate the activities of visiting, well, visitors to campus, speakers and people like that, not, not campus guests.JP: 3:18 Was a hard getting people to come? RA: 3:21 Oh, no, I was a one person staff. I had a half time secretary, and over the years, built a department that included a lot of employees, a lot of student staff. But in the very beginning, the student government was supportive of the programming that their committees, the Student Government as a whole was supportive of their committees involved in in programming, and it was interesting to work with them, and we were able to to develop a lot of new programs over the years. So, from, from a programming budget in my first year, 1962-1963, maybe $15,000-$20,000 when I finished my career in 1995, we had advanced as a department of University Unions to a programming budget altogether of over a half-million dollars. We had moved from student government to a student union based programming organization. Student Government, I was able to convince them, after working with them seven or eight years, that politics and programming are like water and oil. [Jeff laughs] They don't mix very well, that you need to have people in programming who are not in the political, student political realm. And they voted themselves out of the programming business,JP: 5:29 Yeah.RA: 5:29 Which was very smart on their part. Took a lot of effort behind the scenes to work with key student leaders to get them to do that, but they did, and we formed a strong student union, with committees responsible for cultural activities, popular entertainment, films, lectures, so on and so forth. And we continued to build on that, and provided, I believe, a comprehensive programming to meet the taste of all. I don't think any student could say during those years that there is nothing here for me. We had, we had something from almost a to z in the entertainment and cultural activities here.JP: 6:19 They see, from going overseas, did that help quite a bit get a different taste of culture?RA: 6:26 Well, I really can't say, because I was was in the Army, and my time was pretty well occupied. I did get to travel some, but I had no idea that I would be involved in a programming position when I was doing that and I was looking at things more from historical, political point of view.JP: 6:57 Now how did you see the task of handling all the student, RA: 7:02 Well, I don't think you handle students. JP: 7:04 [Unintelligible]RA: 7:04 I think you work with them. I really think working with students kept me young in spirit and heart. I lost my hair, [Jeff laughs] but I didn't lose my, my enthusiasm for things that the students wanted to do and were doing. It was important when we got each spring new student leaders in the student organizations to have training sessions and work with them and help them develop as leaders in the areas that they had responsibilities for. And we did that. We had a lot of training programs and then to guide them without dictating, to guide them in the planning of a year's activities, and then helping them to implement it. I had the responsibility for negotiating or booking all the attractions, artists, films, all the programs that they selected, negotiating the fees, the contracts, and signing all of the contracts, which meant I had to read them very carefully and make changes. But the students chose the speakers we would present, they chose the performers we would have, and they promoted them. They had many, many responsibilities, but since the student membership and leadership on these committees changed frequently, at least every year or two. It was important for a university official to be responsible for contracting because the good name of the university was involved, and that was clearly understood, it was, I have written authority to do all those things, and we really didn't have any problems handling things that way. And I did it so long, I knew the management representatives in New York or Los Angeles or wherever, and they knew me, they knew we ran a good program, they knew we kept our word, and so negotiating contracts was not all that difficult to do, and we were able to work out some very attractive price breaks for our students, because I knew people throughout the country who were in similar positions as mine, and we worked together to block book a number of performers, artists, speakers, which meant getting three or four consecutive dates, for, for performers, which meant a savings to them, and a savings was passed on to us as presenters.JP: 10:39 Now what were some of the big names that you got and some of your favorites? [Rudolph Interrupts]RA: 10:44 Well I have a whole list and I'll give to you, but in the popular entertainment field, which was always important to the students, and after we got Minges Coliseum, we had a venue that was large enough in those days to bring in the really big time artists. One year at homecoming, for example, we had Dionne Warwick on Friday night, she had the number one single record in the country at the time. And on Sunday afternoon, we had The Fifth Dimension, they had the number one album. And prices were, were much, much lower than today. We were able to put each of those performing groups, or performers, beyond Warwick, $10,000, The Fifth Dimension, $10,000 we sold the tickets to students at $2 each, and public $4 each, and after the weekend was over, we sold standing room only tickets. After the weekend was over, we had netted a profit of about $20,000,JP: 12:04 Gracious.RA: 12:04 Which we plowed back into other programming. But over the years, in addition to those in the popular field, we had AlHirt, Stevie Wonder a couple of times, Letterman, Count Basie and his orchestra, I booked Flip Wilson, the comedian, for the first college date he ever performed. Paid him all of $700, [Jeff laughs] he was wonderful. And I could go on and on, but we had the big names in popular entertainment in those years, in the fine arts, classical music, we moved along, and the students finally decided that this was a series of events you had to plan so far in the future that they turned that series over to me, and I organized a committee made up of students, faculty, public and staff at the university, whereas the other programs were all students. And we developed a performing arts series, and on that series over the years, we had some of the great artists of the world. Arthur Rubinstein was considered the world's greatest pianist at the time, Van Cliburn, Andres Segovia, world's greatest classical guitarist, a London Symphony Orchestra, the Cleveland Orchestra, on, and on, and on. So we had the great artists in the world. JP: 13:47 Were any of those your favorites? Did you have any favorites out of the, your career? RA: 13:53 Well, I enjoyed Mr. Rubinstein a lot. He had a great sense of humor. He walked in my office the afternoon of the concert, he had arrived in town and walked in next door, then I saw him and I immediately got up from my desk and we greeted and he asked me, he said, how are ticket sales for tonight's performance? I said, oh, Mr. Rubinstein, [Jeff laughs] we've been sold out for weeks. He said, well, it will be perfectly all right to put some seats on the stage to allow some people to sit on the stage, preferably young ladies [Jeff laughs]. I called the Dean of the School of Music, and I said, I want about 30 of the best looking gals in the School of Music to sit on the stage. And we did that, and Mr. Rubinstein just gave them [Jeff interrupts] [unintelligible]. JP: 14:51 Oh my goodness. RA: 14:51 He, he enjoyed, [Jeff interrupts]JP: 14:53 Now when was this?RA: 14:53 This was back in the, I believe, in the late '70s. And Van Cliburn was another interesting artist here. We we took him out to dinner after the performance, took him out to the Beef Barn and in the party, I had two or three students, one or two faculty members, myself, and we, I had a small budget for hospitality and served, went to Beef Barn where they served steaks, and the, this very attractive young lady student was sitting next to Van Cliburn, and he finished his steak, and he looked over at this young lady, and she had barely eaten anything, and he asked her, he said, aren't you going to eat your steak? She said, I, before the concert, I'm not really hungry. He said, well do you mind if I have it? She said, oh, no. [Jeff laughs] He pierced it with his fork, JP: 14:54 Oh really?RA: 15:46 Took it on his plate, and he ate it. And the manager of the Beef Barn came over and said, Mr. Cliburn, we are so pleased to have you dine with us tonight [Jeff laughs]. It's just such a pleasure. I hope your steak was good. And Cliburn said, you know, I'm from Texas, where we are accustomed to having great steaks, but I do believe yours was the best I've ever tasted. The manager said, well, what would could I fix you another one? Clyburn said, I believe so. [Jeff laughs] JP: 16:35 Oh my goodness. [Jeff laughs]RA: 14:54 I could just see all my hospitality budget was going down in one evening. [Jeff laughs] So there were a lot of fun things like that to happen, and I could tell you many, many more, but I won't take your time.JP: 16:42 Oh no. Actually, it'd be kind of interesting to see some of the stories back when many of the performers, I know, like, I think I remember Ray Charles coming one time.RA: 16:58 Yes, we had Ray Charles more than once. Now, Ray Charles had a, in the early years, well, when I say the early years, when he first became very, very popular, he had a reputation of not showing up and being very difficult to work with. Well, we booked him anyway, and he was a delightful person. We never had any problems at all, and for a number of years, I got Christmas cards from him, and we had him back some years later, and I enjoyed him very much. We had Duke Ellington, Duke it was an interesting story. There is Greenville, South Carolina as well as Greenville, North Carolina. Of course, there are Greenvilles and a lot of other states, but particularly when you have states with similar names, I guess a comparison would be North and South Dakota, if those two states have each a town of the same name. But anyway, to my story, Greenville, South Carolina, has a major airport, and here we do not. And so very quickly I had to recognize and, and make some some adjustments for that. So I developed a contract rider, and part of it stated, in fact, that Greenville, North Carolina is, is your destination, if you go to Greenville, South Carolina, you will pay East Carolina University X number of dollars that we do not have a major airport, that you will fly to Raleigh/Durham or at that time, Kinston was served on a regular basis by Piedmont Airline jets, you will fly to either Kinston or Raleigh, and enclosed were maps and things on how to get here. Well, we had Duke Ellington, and Duke's band came in by bus, but Duke always would fly to his dates or go by limo. So the band came in and the Duke had flown to Greenville, South Carolina. JP: 19:28 Oh no.RA: 19:28 And he came out of the airport and got in a taxi and told the driver, take me to East Carolina College, it was then. And the driver said,JP: 19:40 Woah! [Jeff laughs]RA: 19:41 That's about three or 400 miles northeast of here. JP: 19:45 Oh my goodness.RA: 19:45 So to wind the story up, the Duke had to charter a small private plane and fly in, but he made the date, gave a great concert, and he really had a time getting here [Jeff laughs]. And we had others to do that, but those who failed to show always paid us, I collected from every one. But we basically solved that problem with our contract rider, but not completely, [Jeff laughs] but there were others. Some had all sorts of peculiarities you had to deal with, such as you had to have fresh squeezed orange juice for them backstage, and you couldn't, they had to stay in hotels, or hotels that had windows they could open.JP: 19:46 Did you care about that? Sometimes it's like, wondering about their peculiarities?RA: 20:23 Well a lot of artists certainly have their peculiarities, and you deal with them up to a point. [Jeff laughs] We, I won't name the artist, a great female opera star was selected by our committee not too many years ago, and I negotiated the contract, and the contract came in with a contract rider about as thick as a small telephone directory, and all of the requirements this lady had.JP: 21:23 Goodness.RA: 21:23 And after reading it, I simply told our committee that it's impossible. We're not going to put up with all this stuff. JP: 21:33 Yeah.RA: 21:33 So we just, we canceled the contract. So I had a lot of experiences dealing with the artists.JP: 21:40 Were the contributions pretty well received or like Performing Arts Series, I think, they were pretty well received.RA: 21:50 We, we developed our Performing Arts Series to the point that for, for the last five or six years, my last five or six years at the university, the series was self sustaining. That is, we were, we were selling enough tickets to cover the cost of the artist fees and our production cost. I was very proud of that. Not many fine arts programs are self sustaining. Most have to be heavily subsidized, and ours was a very rare program to do that.JP: 22:32 I tell you, there was really some good programs back then, they still are, but I just remember, like, Ray Charles and some of the films that were being shown [unintelligible].RA: 22:41 Well, I organized the travel adventure film series at the University, and I'm always proud of that. It has allowed people to travel the world over from a nice, comfortable chair seat in Hendrix Theatre. I think it has increased the desire of many people to travel, and has been a real joy to those to see places they have visited during their lifetime. So the travel adventure film series is, I think, a real service the university provides eastern North Carolina. We have people who attend from throughout the eastern part of the state, and a large group that comes every show from Kinston, Washington, and New Bern, so it's it's another service the university provides, and, and students who are interested in geography certainly should to attend those programs.JP: 23:19 Oh wow. Over the years, did some of your, your views of students change or, or did you have to like kind of, I guess, trying to say that, trying to put this in the right words, I guess, did some of your viewpoints change through time, or did they pretty much stay the same, or?RA: 24:17 Well, no, I think you, we would see some changes. For example, I came to the university in 1962 and in the '60s, I'm sure you read about the turbulent times we had in the '60s and early '70s, anti-war demonstrations and campus unrest and so forth. It was, I guess we could say, a very activist time, for a lot of students, well, that had some good things too. We, we were fortunate at East Carolina in that we did not have any disturbances, any wild protests. We had students who were concerned, who held peaceful vigils on the mall and made their, their voices known, but they overwhelmingly were, were good citizens in doing those things. They were respectful, those of us who were in administrative positions and the faculty, not 100%, but overwhelmingly so, and they were concerned and were interested in and frankly, they, they were good committee members because they sought to bring to campus people who would challenge students to think, and when, when we would bring a speaker, a lecturer, we would fill Wright Auditorium with 2000 students and faculty and townspeople back then and we brought people as diverse as Senator Barry Goldwater, Julian Bond from Atlanta, Edgar Evers from Mississippi, many of the major news, TV news personalities and, and so on. And those, those, those programs were well attended and, and this carried over into other committee activities. Participated in by students, they took their job seriously. And once the '80s rolled around, there was more complacency. Attendance dropped off, in fact, the lecture series, as we had back in those earlier years is no longer in existence because students didn't appear to be interested anymore. They, they seem to be more interested in, in, well, have more selfish interest. What's in it for me, my career, or just my friends and I, we were interested this that the other, but the affairs of the world and the nation, the students didn't seem to have that interest anymore. So, things, programs of that nature, world affairs, international affairs, you couldn't get an audience. So we just, you beat the horse so long. JP: 28:05 [Jeff laughs] yeah.RA: 28:05 But you know, you don't go on forever. But they were still fun to work with, and in, in my department of university unions, where we had the student union, in, after a number of years, I became the advisor to the, well, I [unintelligible], I was advisor student leader, but I was advisor to the student programmers and Student Union. I was a Chancellor's representative on the media board, and the full time employees of the media reported to me. I was advisor to Student Government and headed the Performing Arts Series and the Department of University Unions, the student center, Wright Auditorium, so on, and so forth. And so I had a lot of, lot of responsibilities, but I had a staff of more than 30 full time employees and over 100 students who were working in the student center. So, I had a much broader area of responsibility, and did not have the direct contact with students on committees that I had in the earlier years, but with student employees and the students I did work with, I always felt that we had a pretty good work ethic among our students, students who would, you gave them a job to do, and they try to do it well, so they, they were different in their things I mentioned, their involvement and interest in the world and international affairs, but other than that, I don't notice [unintelligible] [Jeff laughs].JP: 30:06 Say you did see the, each year did the change in the attitudes I guess, get different, or?RA: 30:13 Well, it was gradual from the things I mentioned in the later years, but we always had good students to work with. The the GPA of the student committee members in the Student Union, for example, on average, was was considerably higher than the overall student body GPA. So we had students who were not only interested in being involved in campus activities, but were good students as well. So I really think I had, through the years, the opportunity to work with, shall we say, the cream of the crop of our students.JP: 31:09 Oh wow. Was it hard to announce your retirement?RA: 31:09 No, I think I knew. [Jeff laughs] I knew my, it was time to move on. I think a lot of people stay in in jobs or positions too long, and I think most people know when it's time to move on. I had accomplished the things that I set out to do. I felt that the department and the programs were in fine shape, and that I could leave them and maybe someone else could carry them to greater heights, and I wanted to have some time to do a lot of the things that I really had not had time to do. And so I have enjoyed, retirement has been wonderful. I laugh and tell people when they ask me about it. I said, every day is Saturday. [Jeff laughs] you throw, [Jeff interrupts]JP: 32:00 That's a good way to look at it.RA: 32:04 You throw the alarm clock away, [Jeff laughs] you get up when you choose. You have things you want to accomplish. I keep very busy, and over the years, I've been involved in community activities, as well as I work with the university. I chaired the Convention of Visitors Authority for 10 years, chaired the Steering Committee that planned and worked very hard to get a convention center here, and it's now permanent, and I've served in other capacities, and now I, my wife and I travel as much as we can. Photography is a hobby. I make slides and do some slide shows for some city clubs and the senior group at church. And I have a big vegetable garden. I enjoy working in my yard, flowers and shrubs and a few civic activities, and I stay very busy.JP: 33:19 What was the specific date of your retirement.RA: 33:22 I retired on June 30, 1995.JP: 33:26 You still have your, I saw in the paper, your captain's chair, black and gold?RA: 33:30 Oh yes, yes, I do. It's upstairs in the bedroom, if you like, I'll show you my trophy room and things I've kept from work, some of the things I have some upstairs too, JP: 33:43 Okay.RA: 33:43 But downstairs, I have a little, little office, my computer, which I enjoy [Jeff laughs].JP: 33:52 So were you shocked at the announcement of naming the Performing Arts Series after you?RA: 33:58 That was the biggest surprise of my life. I had no inkling that anything like that was in the wind and the chancellor held a reception for me. It was an honor. It was just a terrific event. I knew that was going to happen, and I was told to provide a guest list, which I did, and I thought that they would probably present me with a certificate of service for my 33 years. They normally do that [Jeff laughs] when you retire, and they might say a kind word or two, and that'd be about it. And lo and behold, they presented me with these framed plaques or drawings, pictures, and named the series, and I, first time in my life, I think I was speechless. JP: 35:08 Wow. RA: 35:10 I couldn't think of the proper things to say. [Jeff laughs]JP: 35:16 Oh, man.RA: 35:17 It was quite an honor, and whether it was deserved or not, I'll certainly take it [Jeff laughs].JP: 35:28 There you go. I think you already mentioned this, you're enjoying life now?RA: 35:32 Yeah, it's great. My health is good. I stay busy, for example, since retiring, my wife and I have spent more than three weeks in the British Isles and Ireland. We toured maritime Canada, Australia and New Zealand, France, Switzerland and Austria. Last summer, we were in eastern Europe, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. And we are now thinking about going to China late next spring. JP: 36:18 Goodness. [Jeff laughs]RA: 36:19 So we we traveled a bit, and we've made a lot of smaller trips. JP: 36:23 A little bit. [Jeff laughs]RA: 36:26 And of course, we've been, and we, one of the greatest trips was to Alaska. JP: 36:34 Really?RA: 36:35 We really took the cruise to Alaska and reserved a motor home, which we picked up in Anchorage. I had never driven a motor home, but I have a Ford pickup truck, and it was the same chassis [Jeff laughs] as a truck, so we spent two weeks in that motor home in Alaska and Western Canada, drove it some 3,000 miles, photographed the area. JP: 37:02 Wow. Is it beautiful up there, or?RA: 37:04 Fantastic. I would go back again in a moment. RA: 37:07 Wow. RA: 37:08 Everyone needs to go to Alaska and to Australia.JP: 37:12 Yeah, well, kind of different aspect there in Alaska, I guess.RA: 37:17 It's beautiful. We, a lot of people, think of it as land of ice and snow. We were there in September. It was just beautiful.RA: 37:24 Wow.RA: 37:25 Fall colors and it's just gorgeous.JP: 37:27 Now was it like, night or daytime all the time up there, or?RA: 37:32 No, no, no. In September, we sailed from Vancouver, years ago on the 30th of August. The cruise was eight days. So our land time was all in September. The temperature was about 60 degrees at midday, in the 40s at night and daylight in early September to mid September. Well, in the early part it was about 15 hours.JP: 38:05 Oh wow. Yeah I have lady, I had a lady that worked with my mom. She said she went to a cruise to Alaska, said it wasabsolutely beautiful, she would go again. [Jeff laughs]RA: 38:18 Yeah it's, it's a, it's a great place. I've, I've got five states left to visit, I'll have all 50. RA: 38:25 Oh goodness.RA: 38:26 All 50. JP: 38:26 And which ones are you lacking? RA: 38:28 I need to get into North Dakota, to Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska. JP: 38:34 Oh wow so there in the Midwest?RA: 38:35 Yeah. So we're gonna have to do that and go to the Canadian Rockies to Calgary, Banff, in that area, Lake Louise.JP: 38:36 Goodness.RA: 38:36 And if things go well, we hope to do that.JP: 38:42 Well, where, are there any favorites, any favorite states that? RA: 38:56 Well, the whole, [Jeff interrupts]JP: 38:58 Besides Alaska?RA: 38:59 Of all the states, I think that Colorado is one of the prettiest of the lower 48 of course, Hawaii is just paradise, and they're, but they're all, they're different, different.JP: 39:14 Different, yeah. RA: 39:14 If you like rugged, rocky mountain scenery Utah is, and Arizona, particularly Utah.JP: 39:30 I can get my travel all down. [Jeff laughs] Now, how does East Carolina appear to you now? RA: 39:36 Well, I think, JP: 39:37 You know, looking back.RA: 39:38 I think it's making progress. I think we've had a lot of wonderful things to happen. Gaining doctoral status was very important, and I go back a long way, more than half the life of the university, my student days and days of employment in the administration. You asked when I began my job there as Assistant Dean of Student Affairs, I ended as Assistant Vice Chancellor for Student Life, and we just grew in, in quantity and quality, I think, and we've had some, some good leadership. I knew President Messick very well. I was a student when he was head of the college. He, he took a little, small teachers college and made it into a fine, [Jeff interrupts]JP: 40:46 That he did.RA: 40:46 College, and then Dr. Jenkins gained university status. He used his political influence and his his ability to convince people to support East Carolina to greatly expand the college and gain university status. Unfortunately, after he died, Tom Brewer came in as chancellor and in my opinion, almost destroyed the university, but we were fortunate to have a man like Dr. John Howell to come in as chancellor, and he saved the university. To me, these are very simple, condensed versions of what I believe happened, but in a very short view, a few words, I really think John Howell saved the university and then Chancellor Howell was followed by Chancellor Eakin, who made East Carolina truly a university. And I'm sure that our new chancellor, Chancellor Hughes, is going to take us to even greater heights. I haven't had the privilege of meeting him yet, I look forward to doing that. I hated very much to see Dr. Eakin step down, I think he did amarvelous job, [Jeff interrupts]JP: 42:13 [Unintelligible]RA: 42:13 As did the others.JP: 42:15 Now well, there anything that you regret not doing, or?RA: 42:21 No, I've often said that no job is 100% a great joy all the time, but I must truly say that at least 95% of the time, I had a ball. It was just marvelous. And when you can have a job that only 5% its aggravation, [Jeff laughs] I think it's a great job. And I really feel sorry for anyone who has a job that he or she hates to get up on Monday morning [Jeff laughs] and go back to work. I looked forward to every Monday all the years I worked, I looked forward to every Monday morning going back, the opportunities were there, or new things to do. I don't regret, I don't have any regrets. I don't have any, any feelings that I should have done this, or that; I feel very satisfied.JP: 43:25 Yeah, I got a couple quotes here from the Reflector. I got, like, little, after you graduated or after you retired. Kind of,good point is, Mendenhall was like the living room of the university. I think that's very true. It's like, that's where the, everybody decides to meet at the union.RA: 43:41 We tried to make it that, we wanted everyone at home, in your living room or your family room, you feel comfortable, you feel that this is mine, this is home, and we wanted to keep the students to feel that way about the student center.JP: 43:56 Yeah, I never looked at it that way, but as soon as I saw that quote, it just stuck out, out at me. It's just like that is, kind of rings home a little bit, and even good that you have a bowling alley in a movie center right there in your living room also [Jeff laughs]. RA: 44:11 [Unintelligible]JP: 44:16 See another quote, never had any patience for people who are trying to get out on Friday afternoon, right there at the last minute. RA: 44:26 No, I, I see everywhere I go, today. You go in a store, and you see employees standing around talking to each other, or using the phone, I almost despise cell phones, [Jeff laughs] JP: 44:41 Oh, yeah.RA: 44:43 I think they're very dangerous things, or at least people using them when they drive are very dangerous to the rest of us who are driving and but, but people who, who cheat their, their employers by standing around, goofing off. It just really irks me. [Jeff laughs] And at work, I felt that we all had a job to do, and we were expected to do it, and I tried to stress with my staff and student employees that we enjoy our work more when we care enough about it to do our very best, and if you don't feel that way, you go somewhere else. JP: 45:30 Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think the best quote, I think, I found was you look at every day as an opportunity to grow, I think that's really,RA: 45:39 I am thankful every morning when I wake up and have another day to do things and I hope to learn something new everyday.JP: 45:40 Yeah.RA: 45:40 I'm not interested in sitting around. JP: 45:46 Yeah [Jeff laughs] yeah, I think I have the same philosophy, just a work hard, ethic, look foward to change.RA: 46:03 I hope to wear out rather than rust out. JP: 46:06 Yeah, there you go. [Jeff laughs]JP: 46:08 So I have to say, time at the university, like you mentioned, yeah, it's definitely a special place.RA: 46:17 It truly is. All the students ought to realize that, and all the people who work there, all the faculty and staff, ought to realize that they are in a marvelous environment, and the opportunities are almost limitless for them to influence other people for good and to help make the world a better place.JP: 46:54 Yeah I tell everybody that, it's like, yeah, you should really go to East Carolina whether, went back home and just like that, [END OF SIDE 2]