Oral History InterviewElizabeth Baker Ward, IntervieweeJulie Gorman, InterviewerNovember 20, 2001[BEGINNING OF SIDE 1]JG: 0:00 Interviewing Beth Ward, who is a professor here at ECU, and she's also a county commissioner, and we're going to talk some today about her history with ECU and the importance of ECU in, in this area of the state. Okay, to start with, BW: 0:17 Yeah, here we go.JG: 0:19 The basics, where are you from? BW: 0:21 Okay.JG: 0:22 When, were you born? All these things.BW: 0:26 I'm an eastern North Carolina girl. I was born in Farmville, North Carolina, and graduated from high school there, when it was Farmville High School, it still is, but not centrally located. It was right in downtown, walked all the way to go there. Also did, went through fifth grade in Fountain, North Carolina, which is a small town. They don't even have a school there anymore. My mother was an educator. She graduated from Women's College in Greensboro, it was called then, and that was where I was going when I graduated from high school. But I came here during the summer, so I didn't have to put in tobacco anymore, and I was still going to go to Greensboro that fall, but I took 18 hours and two sessions of summer school, and loved East Carolina. And I said, if you'll let me stay on campus, that's what I'll do. I have one brother who still lives in Farmville, he's always lived there. And my mother is still living, she's 94 years old, and she retired from education after 39 years, and my father's deceased.JG: 1:46 And what was Farmville like growing up there?BW: 1:49 Well, I always tell people that I am what Farmville made me. It was a very small town. It's not large even now, and I don't keep numbers in my head, so I can't tell you what the population is, but it was the kind of town that we walked to school. It was about probably six blocks to school, you know, not a straight shot, but and all of my, you know, we picked up my friends, neighbors walking, you know, as we walked school, you, we had two drug stores, and they served grilled cheese sandwiches and cokes and things like that. After school, we'd stop by, and everybody would be there. And the you know, everybody knew you in the town, every store you went into, the people who owned the store, as well as the people who, you know, were working there, knew who you were, knew who your parents were. I don't think I could have gotten a better education. I remember all of my teachers by name. I remember specific things about them, and I think that was because they were so good.JG: 3:03 Now, was it, was Farmville, is a predominantly farming community?BW: 3:08 Yes.JG: 3:08 And it was back when,BW: 3:08 And back then it was really totally rural. Now, even for a small town, it has, people used to joke in Pitt County that, well, they do it the "Farmville Way." [Julie laughs] But Farmville has always done a good job promoting themselves. You know, they have their own art center there. Instead of joining the Pitt County Historical Society, they have their own historical society. Their own, you know, they did a wonderful job with recreation a long time ago, we had a town pool, you know, swimming pool and for 15 cents, you could go swim all afternoon, and 15 cents, you could swim all morning. And I used to ride my bicycle, do my chores during the summer, and then ride my bicycle. And we lived on one side of town, the pool was on the other, and that was where you just kind of gathered. And we also had a nice park, but, you know, not organized sports, tennis courts, I learned how to play tennis there, and a lot of that was not going on in a lot of the small towns around this area. So I feel very, very lucky. I feel like the heritage, what has made me the adult that I am, a lot of it comes from the experiences that I had growing up there. No matter where you went, there were people that were either kin to you or people who were, who knew you and knew your parents. So it was kind of like somebody would all, could always tell if you misbehaved or whatever, it would beat you home. You know, your parents would hear about it [Julie laughs] when you walked in the door. And you know, you knew what was happening and the friendships that we had there. I mean, they're six of, there's seven, actually [phone rings] kind of the high school girlfriends that go to the beach, still together and spend a week, and it's like [phone rings] we see each other all the time. [Beth answers phone] BW:.JG: 5:06 So you said you grew up on a farm?BW: 5:07 Yes, I grew up on a farm. We moved into town when I was in the sixth grade, and I had rheumatic fever in the fifth grade. And back then, they treated rheumatic fever by putting you to bed. I was in the bed literally for 11 months. So I missed most of the fifth grade, but my teachers would come by and bring things for me to do, and my classmates would come by. And so I started the sixth grade in Farmville, in the town of Farmville, and but, you know, I was born, when I was born, we were living on a small farm, and my mother still has that farm. JG: 5:50 No, she does? [Beth agrees] Was your father still farming when you moved into Farmville, was he still,BW: 5:54 When we moved into Farmville, he still farmed and kept the farm until he was deceased, and now we rent it out, but he took a job selling insurance, primarily agricultural insurance, to farmers for hail insurance and that sort of thing. So he worked for a pretty large company there in town, doing that and, but my, you know, background, his, you know, was living on a farm.JG: 6:20 So what type of chores and stuff did you have to do growing up?BW: 6:23 Oh, the thing I remember most about the farm was, of course, I had to help with the tobacco harvest, because that was the biggest thing. But you couldn't do a lot of that until you got older. And we always had tenants who lived just really across the pasture from us, and I spent as much time at their house as I did at my own because we had to play together, because that was it. When you live in the country, [Julie laughs] wherever the young people are, that's where you go. And my mother's from a very large family, and I remember my aunts and my uncle. I only had one uncle on my mother's side, and seven, she had seven sisters. And the most remarkable thing, I think, that as far as the chores were concerned, I really, you know, like I said, when I got old enough to help with tobacco, I did. I drove the truck to truck the tobacco, back and forth from the fields to the looping shelters, I handed tobacco, which was just a part of the process. Now it's very mechanical and, back then, it was all by hand. But, you know, I don't ever remember, I know that putting in tobacco, to me, was really work. I mean, that was hard work. You got up at four o'clock in the morning, and you worked until the sun went down. And now you see people loading up on trucks going to help, and it's 10 o'clock in the morning, but I don't remember it being like work. [Julie laughs] You know, the tobacco part was, but the things that the house, my husband, I mean, my brother and I were in 4-H and we both had animals that we raised, you know, calves, and we had horses and, you know, but it was just, it was like, that was life. It wasn't like it was chores. I never got paid [Julie laughs] for doing anything on the farm, I mean, and I don't remember ever asking for it. I never got an allowance until we got, I got a bit in high school. And you know, it's just part of the way you lived. And if you had to feed up that afternoon or that evening or that morning, whoever was doing it, whether my dad was doing it, or my brother did it, or I had to do it. And if Billy was gone to, for some reason, for a week to camp, I would tend to his animal, and the same with me, and it was just, you know, we did a lot of creative playing back then, no organized sports and things like that. You had to think about what, and I think it makes a big difference, I really do. I think that upbringing makes a very big difference. My aunts, I always thought it was remarkable, you got to realize that my mother is 94, she was the oldest of nine, eight children, and she, her father sent her off to Greensboro for a four year college degree, that was unheard of back then, number one, for women, and number two, for anybody to send up, you know, a child off and out of all of those children, six of them have four year degrees.JG: 9:36 Wow.BW: 9:36 And the other two had opportunities, they just didn't finish. They got married.Speaker 1 9:40 So you knew from the beginning that you would be expected to go to college?BW: 9:44 Exactly. It was just like, life. You know, there was never any, you know, expectation other than that. I just knew it was going to be part of my life, that when I finished high school,Speaker 1 9:56 Now, were there many expect, many students or your peers in Farmville who went to colleges?BW: 10:02 Yes.JG: 10:04 They did?BW: 10:03 It's amazing. That was the beauty in that school to me. I can't even think back to people that didn't perform fairly well. It was very difficult. The expectations were very, very high. You know, in fifth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade, eighth grade. I mean, I, I remember working very hard in school. You know, you had lots of things that you had to do and, and you went to, you didn't go to class not prepared. And, and the other thing about being in a smaller high school, there were sixty in my graduating class, and that was pretty big. That was the biggest school at that time, the biggest high school in Pitt County. My husband had twelve, I think, in his graduating class at Bethel. But I remember, you know, you had to be in a lot of extracurricular activities because it, you know, I was the cheerleader, and I played in the band. So when we would do a halftime show, I would be out on the field with my drums, [Julie laughs] in my cheerleading outfit, and everybody else would be in the uniform, [Julie laughs] and I played French horn in the orchestra part of the band, but everybody was in the marching band was also in the orchestra, because that was how it had to be. And I hated French horn, but we got one. And Mr. Maenhout, said, "How about you learning how to play this, Beth?", "Okay, I will." But, you know, we did plays, and everybody had to be a part of it. And, and I think that's a richness that you don't get in these very large, large high schools now, because you have to kind of almost start focusing on something you're interested in, because the same person can't be a part of everything, you know, and I was in the Future Teachers with the, Future Teachers Club, and, I don't know, three or four clubs, and now I think you can only choose one club, and then you, some people don't even participate in clubs anymore. And I sang in the chorus, I was in the band, you know, cheerleading, all of that stuff. And I don't ever remember it being such an overwhelming thing. It was, you know, it was a thing where in the afternoon you could stay after school because you walked home. I didn't get a car to drive, that would be mine, until I had my second child. JG: 10:06 Oh, wow.BW: 10:09 Even after I got married, I did not have a car, JG: 10:09 Even after college?BW: 10:09 We had one car. I didn't have a car, in college, in fact, I used my mother's car when I did my student teaching, to drive.JG: 10:09 Wow.BW: 10:59 So, and we, my husband and I had a car, we only had one. And I would, you know, when I, when I started teaching, wherever we lived, I would just find someone that lived, knew me that was a teacher that would let me ride. So, you know, it was just, I don't know it was, it just wasn't important, you know, back then, I never asked for a car, you know, and I certainly wasn't going to spend my little hard earned money to buy a car when I could find transportation, so [Beth laughs].Speaker 1 13:20 So you mentioned that you remember several of your teachers from elementary and high school, and that you can remember what they're like, is there anyone in particular that like really stands out?BW: 13:33 Mrs. Joyner, our high school English teacher, there was just no way you could be slack in her class. I mean, nobody, no matter whether you were a genius or a slow learner. I mean, you did not attend her class with, and not be prepared at whatever level you could be prepared, you were prepared when you went in there. I loved the way she taught literature, and I think that's why I enjoy, I focus primarily on teaching, reading, language arts, and then, you know, I felt like the communication skill; I think I learned the love of communication. As far as teaching the way they taught. Mr. Sam Stell was my social studies teacher, and I had him freshman, sophomore, junior, senior social studies. And back then, you took a government course. You took a United States history course, you took a world history course, and what was teh other one, I can't remember,JG: 14:41 Geography?BW: 14:42 Geography/something else. But I could hardly wait to get back to his class, because he was the ultimate storyteller, and that's how he taught you, you, he taught the information, but he would tell it in such a way, I can't ever remember him looking at a note or anything, and he would just talk about history, and you could just tell that he loved it, and he also, I mean, to this day, I mean, I still, I mean, I'm so up on wanting to vote. I mean, it's just, I just couldn't stand it not to get somewhere to vote [Julie Laughs] if I couldn't get there. And a lot of that came from my mother too, but, and my dad, but, Mr. Stell was just the ultimate storyteller. And I remember when he was, I was in his junior class, and I think that was United States government, and I remember him making the statement that he was going to have to get out of teaching because he could not afford to raise his family on a teacher's salary. And I remember just feeling so hurt. How dare he say he wasn't going to teach anymore? And I wrote, and it was just salary, that was all. It was money. So I did some research and wrote a paper on it, comparing how much people got paid during doing different jobs that did not even have to have a four year degree compared to what teachers were being paid. And he took the essay, I read it through his class, and he took it and sent it to the News and Observer, and it was published, and the title was Sweepers Versus Teachers. That was the headline. It was on the editorial page, and because somewhere in there, I had compared what people who swept the floors at the, in Detroit, when they made automobiles, you know, with no education, just right out of high school, JG: 16:45 Right.BW: 16:45 Or no high school education, even compared to teachers. And you know, back then, you had to go back to college to renew your certificate. Now you can do that in your local school, but you had to enroll back in college during the summer to keep your certificate up to date. So there was always putting money back in.JG: 17:06 Do you know if he stayed in after you were gone? BW: 17:08 Yes, he became a principal, and he became a school superintendent, and when he retired, he came back to all of our class reunions, and I kind of kept up with him anyway. And I was driving down at Emerald Isle maybe 10 years ago. We were down there for the week, and I saw these election signs up, and there were these four people running for Councilman together, and his, Sam Stell, and I just knew that could only be one Mr. Stell. So we stopped at the town hall, and I asked, you know, do you does anybody know where Sam Stell is? And he had retired down there? JG: 18:05 Oh!BW: 17:53 And so he stayed in I don't know what he's doing now, as far as I don't know whether he's still in politics or not, I think he became mayor, and it may have not been Emerald Isle but I know it was. It was down at the beach. So I'm trying to think it may not have been Emerald Isle, but it was down there at the beach.Speaker 1 18:08 So when you came to East Carolina, you were planning on going to Greensboro, BW: 18:13 Yes.JG: 18:13 And you came here. Now, first of all, did many of the girls that you graduated with, did they go to Greensboro, or East Carolina, or?BW: 18:20 No, I was really the only one that was going to Greensboro. Out of a class of 61 students, and 60 of us had kind of been together since, almost 60 of us, and that one was a student that had not passed his English or his something, and he graduated with us, but out of the 60, let me see, I may not have this exactly right, but I know it was well over 85% went to a four year college somewhere, because the community,JG: 18:51 Did a lot of them come here to East Carolina?BW: 18:52 Yes, a lot of them did, out of the four, out of the seven of us that go to the beach together, three of us came to East Carolina. One went went to Chicago, went to design school. One went to Sullins. Two up, then went to Sullins college in Virginia, and then graduated from Carolina the last two years. The, the, I don't know how to, it wasn't just my fam, it was kind of, there were no SATs back then, you know, you were admitted basically on your high school grades and recommendations. There were no counselors in high schools then. So, you know, you just filled out your own applications. And, you know, nobody was promoting one place or another. And the reason I was going to go to Greensboro was, excuse me, because my mother had graduated from there.JG: 19:57 And you wanted to be a teacher?BW: 19:58 Yes I knew I wanted to be a teacher, always. And I know that sounds weird, but and I was the kind of person that, you know, even back then, if I had wanted to be a doctor, I would have thought I could have done it. That was the thing. I think I got the most from being from this small town and this small high school. I think about Eleanor, the one who went to Chicago. I mean, getting on a train and knowing nobody. I mean, she had no family in Chicago, but, JG: 20:26 She wanted to.BW: 20:32 She had written around and found the area. She was very artistic, a beautiful woman, and she still lives in Chicago, and, you know, and I think about the courage it took, because you look at it, and it does take courage to do that, and most of us had been just at home people. I mean, we had gone away to camp and to visit relatives and that sort of thing. But, you know, we had not taken major trips. Vacations were the beach and the mountains, you know, none of us had gone to Europe, you know, and we, we did take our high school senior trip, believe it or not, back then was a trip to New York. JG: 21:13 Oh!BW: 21:13 We'd take a bus to New York, and parents and the teachers would go with us, and our principal always went with us. And it was just something you look forward to all of your life. And growing up in that high school, and it was just wonderful. I mean, that was the first time I'd ever gone to New York. I mean, we had traveled around as family, but, you know, it was just, it's just such a different thing. And to, I think that when you participate in a lot of activities, you have excellent teachers who give you this confidence. I mean, I didn't know that that's what it was that I was bringing out of that high school, but when I look back on it, it never entered my mind, I couldn't go do whatever I wanted to do.JG: 22:00 Right.BW: 22:03 I mean, George went to Notre Dame. He was a military attorney. We had three that received scholarships to do University. Paul went to Texas Christian I mean, you know, JG: 22:20 All over.BW: 22:21 Yeah, and, and, you know, you think about back then, I didn't ever think, well, why did he got a Texas Christian, [Beth and Julie laugh] you know, I don't know! And, of course, George, he was only Catholic in our class. And, I mean, I guess that was why Notre Dame was, you know, his choice, I don't know, but we had a lot, when I look back at it, very, very bright, bright people. In fact, we had a valedictorian, but we had so many people that, because back then, you weren't in a computer, so we couldn't go, you know, JG: 22:58 To the point, yeah.BW: 22:59 4.00269 and we gave, there were 10 of us who were kind of like tied for salutatorian, believe it or not, in that class. And I knew that it was kind of unique. But there was a feeling throughout that whole school that you know, you do well, school is important, and instead of having a salutatorian, they recognized all of us at graduation with a book called I Dare You, you know. And Wanda Bell was our valedictorian. I remember that, she was so bright, but it, it just, I mean, it was always kind of understood most, and when you consider back then, JG: 23:48 Yeah.BW: 23:48 Over 85% of your class went off to,JG: 23:51 Yeah, that's that seems that that really takes [unintelligible]BW: 23:54 Then you look back at what many of them have done, and what they're doing is just, you know, amazing to me.JG: 24:01 And you get this impression sometimes that nothing was happening and no one was coming out of this part of the state [unintelligible].BW: 24:10 Exactly, that's right. And when you look at these, in fact, the town of Farmville, they just did an article in Farmville Enterprise. It's a weekly paper out of the town of Farmville, small town, Farmville. There are five. They did it on Veterans Day, five generals that are presently retired, all different Army, Air Force, whatever. And one of them was in my class. I mean, you know. [Beth laughs] And I guess everybody left there thinking they could do anything in the world, you know, that they wanted to do. And that was part of being in the town, that was part of being in the school, where everybody knew you and everybody was part of everything. And I think that helps give you a confidence. It also helps you make choices better when you've experienced a lot of different things. And sometimes it's, you know, the last thing I'll ever do is sing in the chorus when I get to college. You know, the last thing I'll ever do, you know, because, you know, you get to experience so many,JG: 25:17 Try it out.BW: 25:17 Different things.Speaker 1 25:19 So when you came to East Carolina planning to transfer to Greensboro. What was it here that you liked so much that kept you here?BW: 25:28 Well, to tell you the truth, the first thing that impressed me the most after that first session of summer school, and I had taken nine hours, JG: 25:37 Were you living at home still? BW: 25:39 Yes, just during the summer, because I was I knew my dorm room, I had met my roommate and everything in Greensboro. [Julie laughs] You know, we had, that was a done deal. We just hadn't paid the tuition yet and but I remember talking when I'd get home in the afternoons to my parents, and I'd say, I just love Dr. so and so, he is so wonderful. I took my first psychology course during the summer, and the dean of the school, I probably didn't call him the dean, then the chairman of the department. I don't even know that, I don't even think they [phone rings] call the school of education. But I think, I think the thing that I just loved the most were these professors that were here, even in summer school, were the best. I mean, they were the, the chairman of the department. They were the, some of the better, better teachers. And, I mean, I thought that's how it was everywhere, but apparently it wasn't, and it certainly isn't now, because I think that's probably one of the things we like the most here now, is our freshman and sophomore years at East Carolina, I don't think are as powerful as they ought to be. I mean, I would, my parents were so scared. I would go home and talk about Dr. Paschal, Herbert Paschal, who taught North Carolina history and history 50 and history 51, I mean, I don't have any clue what the numbers are now, but I would go home and I was just so excited. And just, oh, you'll never believe what he did today, and blah, blah, blah, blah. I remember my mother going, oh, my God, are we going to have a social studies teacher, please. [Beth and Julie laugh] I mean, she said that to me later because they didn't want to discourage me in any way. But Dr. Pruitt, I remember that first psychology course I ever took, and back then there was no psychology in high school, I mean, or anything similar to it. So, I mean, I was like, just, just my mouth would just drop open listening to him talk, and I minored in psychology. In fact, I had enough hours to major, but I just didn't want to do a foreign language. So back then, you could really get a really good minor if you really focused on something and, and I minored in it and loved it, couldn't get enough of it. And I mean, I remember Dr. Todd, you know, Todd Dining Hall, taught me and my husband, also, not my husband then, but my husband now. And when we came back here, we were gone 15 years after we graduated, when we came back here, one of the first people we saw from the university, we were in the grocery store, and Dr. Todd walked up to us and said, Beth, Charles, where have you all been? You know, how are you doing? Where is everybody? Sweetheart's here. That's what he called his wife. Sweetheart's here, come here, come here. It's Beth and Charles. I remember, and I mean, I was just like standing there, because my first thought immediately was, who is this, you know, and then, of course, I, you know, it came to me. But, I mean, it was just something very, very special about those professors and and the other thing was, there was so much. It was such a, a helpful atmosphere, a very warm, inviting atmosphere, and, and really, I think I was really pleased with how well I did.JG: 29:17 So what made you stay with elementary education direction, instead of switching over social science?BW: 29:23 Well, like I said, I always wanted to be a teacher. Never wanted to teach high school, never entered my mind. So if I had, if I had taught high school, it probably would have been social studies or English, because I love the communication part, and I love literature, and I love reading so, but I never wanted to do high school in any way. So you either had to choose a sub, but I wanted to teach, so you either had to choose the subject if you're going to teach or stick with elementary. And back then, my degree covered grades 1-9.JG: 30:00 So all the way up.BW: 30:03 You know, so it was, that was part of it. But I don't know, I remember sitting in my first math class, and math is not my favorite subject, and I think for the first time in my life she was teaching just general math and whatever the first course is called, wasn't algebra, not that first one. [Phone rings] And she said, remember, in that first math class, it was like the first time I really understood about percentages and decimals and money that it actually matched. You know, 25 cents was the same thing as decimal .25 and 25 over 100 was the same thing as 1/4 and you're going, wow, you know. And I'm sure everybody else in the world sitting in there knew that. [Julie laughs] I mean, I always made good grades in math, but somehow it hadn't come together for me. JG: 30:55 It clicked.BW: 30:56 I was just very excited and, about, I mean, they, it was like, as much fun learning here as there was, as it was there and it was it, to me, it was not so large. I don't even know what the population was here then the numbers, but.JG: 31:12 So when did you make the decision, at what point? BW: 31:15 About halfway through second session of summer school, JG: 31:18 [Unintelligible]BW: 31:18 I started talking to my mother and, and I really, you know, how you I want to get away from home. For what reason? I don't know why we say that, you know, [Julie laughs] which is so, because I loved home. But I talked to mother about it, and, and my dad, and we were talking about it, and I said, well, you know, if you all will let me stay in the dorm, you know, on campus, and not stay at home and commute back and forth. I think I'd like, you know, to stay and, you know, they said great, because they were pleased for me not to have to be, back then Greensboro was not, I mean it was far away, further away, it seems like than it is now.JG: 32:02 Right.BW: 32:02 But so they were very pleased, you know, for me to be here and,JG: 32:07 So you called your Greensboro roommate, and broke the news to her?BW: 32:10 I called up there, and I said, yeah, you're not getting any tuition from us [Beth and Julie laugh]. But there were, they, their dorm had suites, so there were, like, eight of us in the dorm that I was going to go into in that freshman dorm, so it wasn't like I was leaving her in the lurch and we were assigned roommates. I mean, I didn't have anybody going up there that I was going to run with, so.JG: 32:35 So when, so when you started here, what dorm?BW: 32:37 I stayed in Cotten dorm.JG: 32:39 Cotten?BW: 32:39 And I was, what did they call us back then? I can't even remember, where I was in charge of half of the second floor of the first floor, actually, no the second floor. What do they call them now, when you're dorm, JG: 32:56 RAs?BW: 32:56 RAs, yes, that's not what we were called, but it was, you know, and, man, there was some experiences in Cotten dorm, but I was there for two years, and then I spent a half a year in Slay dorm, and I graduated in two and a half years because I went to summer school every summer and took maximum most,JG: 33:19 Would you stay at home during the summer, while you were in summer school, or just stay in the dorm?BW: 33:22 Most of the time, I would stay home because we had a place down at the river, and I'd stay down there and drive in for summer school, or stay home in Farmville and drive in for summer school.JG: 33:33 Now, life on campus then and life on campus now [Beth laughs] is known to be incredibly different. So describe kind of a typical day, or what kind of the rules, some of the rules may have been that you have?BW: 33:46 Yeah, okay, yeah, number one, I've also worked in the office in Cotten dorm, my second year, and you had to sign out. You had cards that were just in a box and had your name on it, and it had just lines, and you had to put the date and the time you were leaving and the time of your expected return. Then you had to put down everywhere you were going, home to Farmville, North Carolina, or downtown for dinner at the Old Town Inn and then movie at the Pitt Theater, and then you had to put your estimated time return. And of course, you had specific times that you had to be in the, inside the door, but the doors were locked, and that was very serious if you came in after hours, and that, that's one of the things that I think is very different now. [Julie laughs] We had a friend whose daughter was coming to school here about six years ago, and, you know, we were making the connection, and we were inviting her to supper. My husband stopped to pick her up to bring her supper to our house, and after she, he took her back that night, he said, Beth, he said, I just went to the back door and opened the door and walked in. He said, Can you I mean, you know, when you think about what you couldn't get in any of our doors, they were always locked, except the front door, and you came in the front door and went to the office, and they called on an intercom called for you to come down, and you had to identify yourself. You had to say what your name was. When you came and said, I want to see you know Beth Baker, then you'd say, my name is Charles Ward, or her brother, Billy Baker, or whoever. And then they would call over the intercom please, come to the office. So and so is here. And never could you have a man on the hall unless it was moving day in or out. And if you did, you holler, "man on the hallway" and you could not wear Bermudas, shorts, walking shorts, whatever. And if you went over to, we call it the soda shop, which was in Wright and basically, if you went over there and you had your shorts on, you were studying or whatever. I don't think I even bought a pair of jeans to school. We call them dungarees back then, I don't think my mother allowed me. Anyway, we would put on our raincoats over and button it up, and then you would walk, run over to get something, and then bring it back over to the dorms. First time I ever had pizza, and you could order, and they would deliver a few places, one or two places in town. And we would do that a lot of times on the weekends, because I worked in the dorm, it was really a big weekend disappearing act of East Carolina back then, was not a lot going on the weekend to keep people here, but because I worked in the office, I spent a lot of weekends here, you know, because that was our busiest time, and.JG: 33:44 Do you remember there being social activities, though, on campus, dances, and things like that?BW: 34:24 Yes, Wright Auditorium, there were a lot of times that they would have dances and get togethers, and at the soda shop, also they would have some dances. And we that was really one of our biggest entertainments. And even in high school, I mean, we always joked and said we did most of our courting on the dance floor. It was just accepted. You know, it's just what you did. And the I was, I was a Tri Sig, and the fraternities had been on campus for a while, and it was just the beginning of, I was the first pledge class in Tri Sigma after it had gone national, and I don't know what the what it was originally and we also got the first house, and I remember the naivety of all of us, in the sense of we were sitting down, figuring out, okay, our parents paid this much for for us to stay in the dorm and to buy meal tickets which I'll speak to in just a minute. And, you know, so that amount of money can go in the pot and we can buy us a house. And Virginia Minges of the Pepsi Minges here in town was a Tri Sig at Farmville, Virginia, farm is it Farmville College? What is it? I can't remember. JG: 38:47 In Virginia?BW: 38:48 It's Farmville. I think it's called Farmville college. I don't know, but anyways, one of the older ones up there. But anyway, she was our counselor, or whatever, and we had no clue how much they contributed [Beth laughs] to us getting that house. So that was wonderful.JG: 39:03 Did you stay in the house?BW: 39:04 One semester.JG: 39:05 One semester?BW: 39:06 One quarter back then, I was also on the Panhellenic Council, and I was also on the Judiciary board, which was a where we had a hearing, like a mediation for any infraction that any student, male or female, you know, would happen. And sometimes people were asked to leave for a semester or whatever. But it was students, we had one adult advisor, and the, you know, we bought meal ticket coupons, and I ate three meals a day. Usually, believe it or not [Beth and Julie laugh], school cafeteria during the week, I even ate breakfast. But the talking about the judiciary board, the Old Yellow, I don't know if you've ever heard Old Yellow, but we were infamous at East Carolina University for Old Yellow. It was a group of fraternity boys before they had a fraternity house.JG: 40:07 That was my next question [Julie laughs].BW: 40:08 They roomed together in Old Yellow, and it was about six or eight of them, and they planned this big party. And I was a sophomore, my husband, at that time, was a junior. He had transferred from Louisburg.JG: 40:26 You were still living in the dorm?BW: 40:26 Still living in the dorm. My husband's brother was a senior, and his wife to be was a senior, and we had all been invited to go to Old Yellow but Charles and I were in a wedding that weekend, so it was late that Saturday afternoon when we got away from the reception and all that sort of stuff. So we decided, no, we don't think we'll go, but see, you couldn't sign out to go to a party at a house, okay, so, I mean, it was like, I guess, over 100 people, and it's kind of word of mouth type thing, and Dean White and Dean Mallory, who has just passed away. I don't know if you saw that in the paper or not, but Dean Mallory recently just passed away. But Dean White, Dean Ruth White, and Dean Mallory raided, Old Yellow, and they had the security office people, and you know.JG: 41:28 Now, was this a, I have heard this was big, BW: 41:31 Yes, yes oh yeah!JG: 41:32 That it was a really big deal.BW: 41:33 Oh yeah!JG: 41:33 And, and I think I read in a book that it was, was there also, like functions going on campus that night on the same thing, and a lot of people just kind of went there, or, or, or, was it just a regular thing, and they got caught this time?BW: 41:46 Well, [Julie laughs] this kind of thing went on a lot, JG: 41:50 Alright, and they just got,BW: 41:51 And they, you know, like a party at a fraternity house now.JG: 41:54 Right.BW: 41:54 But this was not a fraternity house, because none of the fraternities had fraternity houses at that time, they were getting fraternity houses. And because, in fact, the very next year, the Lambda Chis had their house, and the Kappa Sig[ma]s, I think, already had their house. But this was kind of the way it was prior to all the fraternities having fraternity houses and all the sororities having sorority houses. When they roomed together, they would rent these big houses, and this was the first that I had ever known of a, that big a party. And my now brother in law and sister in law decided they would go after the wedding, and when they were stepping out of the car onto the sidewalk, Butch, who is my sister in law, looks to the right and sees Dean White coming with Dean Mallory. And show you how small, but mentality it was in a large university, Dean White looks at her, and he's, she says, Ann, you need to get back in that car. And Wade is kind of, you know, bouncing around, going, huh? [Julie laughs] Butch said, get in the car, Wade. They just took off and never got in. I mean, they were that close to getting in there. And of course, we didn't know about it until the next day. And, I mean, it was people were coming out of windows, hiding in closets, running as hard as they could. And I, being on the Judiciary Council, we had a lot of people who were kicked out of school for semester, I mean, for a quarter back then, and one of my, one of the students that was assigned to me in Cotton my sophomore, junior year, whatever it was at that time, oh, she was just one that had gotten caught. I've never done this before. I'm on a church scholarship. What are they going to do to me? [Beth laughs] It's just unbelievable. And of course, back then there were, you know, there was no liquor by the drink. There was no buying a keg. And so most of the time it was like PJ in a big pot and no telling what was in it. I don't know why people didn't die of botulism back then [Julie laughs], but and people just bringing liquor, you know, there was very little beer and that sort of and neither my husband nor I drank in in college, and I mean serious, not even anything. But we always had the biggest, we had the most fun at everything. There was a place called Dora's that was off campus that the fraternity party would be held at Dora's, but you couldn't sign out to go to Dora's either, so but.JG: 44:51 You were supposed to be there.BW: 44:52 Right, exactly [Julie and Beth laugh]. But you always had to think through. You got to be very creative signing out! When you went off somewhere, but it, you know, it was, I'll just never forget the fact that, you know, there Dean White was, and she knew her name is Ann, and we call her Butch, but you know, knew her name, you know. And she looked, you need to get back in that car. And she was this very stately woman with gray hair, and it was always curled permed, all these curls on top of her head.Speaker 1 45:24 I think that's interesting. It shows kind of a change in East Carolina, because if the Chancellor of the University walked into a party, no one there would know who! [Julie laughs]BW: 45:36 No, not at all,JG: 45:36 I mean there are very few students that would say, [Julie laughs]BW: 45:39 Uh-oh! That's right. And of course, there's, would say the biggest concern is,JG: 45:42 They probably wouldn't even recognize them.BW: 45:46 Was the signing out stuff. You know what I'm saying they, I mean, when that came to be, you know, to an end it, you know, then you were not doing anything illegal [Beth laughs].JG: 45:59 Right.BW: 46:00 I mean, you may have been drinking under age, but you know it was, JG: 46:03 You weren't not where you're supposed to be.BW: 46:05 That's right, exactly. And it was a very big thing,JG: 46:08 But it was like that the whole time that you lived here on campus, I didn't change until later.BW: 46:09 Yes, the whole time I lived here it did not change until, I don't know when it did change. JG: 46:15 I think it kind of switched over, maybe like '67,BW: 46:20 Yeah.JG: 46:21 '68 area from,BW: 46:22 And, but that, and I also think that it was just such a nice picture to know that there, there's so many people who know, who knew you, the professors knew you by name the Dean of Women, knew you by name the Dean of Men knew you by name. And the other thing I think that was very different is you did not cut class in rain, sleet, or snow they never canceled class at East Carolina. I'll never forget trudging from Cotten dorm. It was one of the only times we ever had snow that was over two feet and going all the way over to Christenbury Gym, trudging through the snow because I knew they would have class, and they did, and that was because most of the people lived on campus. JG: 47:14 Right and they could get there.BW: 47:09 They have the people now, I'm sure, I don't know what the statistics are, but there's so many people who commute in, and not just the ones who rent apartments, you know, around here, but most everybody. There were a lot of there were some people commute [END OF SIDE 1]