Interviewer 0:03 This is November the 11th 1997. And I'm interviewing Mrs. Mary Virginia Jones. And do you consent to do this interview? Yes, I do. Okay, and we'll get started and when wereMary Virginia Jones 0:18 you born? I was born right here in Greenville, North Carolina. Just on the, I guess, just outside the city limits here. So I've been here all my life. And when you want to be alive, I was born November fourth, but just had a birthday. Oh, November 4 1931.Interviewer 0:40 Okay. And how many people weren't your family?Mary Virginia Jones 0:44 Okay. My mother, father. We were fortunate to have two parents. And there were five of us. In other words, I have two brothers and twoInterviewer 0:54 sisters. That's a big family. What did your parents doMary Virginia Jones 0:59 for a living? Okay, my dad was a carpenter. My mother was a housewife. She also was a practical nurse, and a businesswoman because in her later years, she opened up the first rest home. Not a nursing home, but a restaurant in Pitt County, which is located in Winterville. Oh, he did that for several years. And she finally just, you know, soInterviewer 1:29 Oh, that's really interesting. Um, what was it? Like? What was your family life life was okay. Our family wasMary Virginia Jones 1:37 very, very close knit. Education was very important. Church is very important. After we never miss in the days out of school, so we were really sick. And if you knew better than to say, Mom, I'm seeking a question to stay home because you didn't want to, because she was gonna take it to the doctor. That doctor had said, No, I don't find anything wrong. But anyway, she made sure that we studied we have very good study habits. We came home directly after school. We had a little social life but not a lot. On the weekends. They come Friday, maybe Friday or Saturday, we get tend to go to the neighborhood movie, which was located on Albemarle Avenue. That moves it is no longer there. We that building is a long thing. But little things like that. And in the summer, we we got old enough, we worked. We worked in green tobacco. That was the way we earned our money so that that will help our parents to buy some clothes, because my mother was a great seamstress. So she made most of our clothes. They knew how to make ends meet. I'm sure they did make ends meet and of course my mother would through the summer would preserve and can fruit stuff. So that has some things in the telehealth was opened and went toInterviewer 3:07 visit busy. Did you did you have a lot of activities in your churchMary Virginia Jones 3:15 involved? Okay, as I was, as we were growing up, we attend to son to school regularly. My two sisters of course sang in the choir. I never sang in the choir. I don't know why I didn't get it. But that was most of what we did in the church. Of course, as I've gotten older, of course, I've married a minister. So I've been really, really active in the church, with fundraisers and working with the youth I've always enjoyed. I don't have any children, but I've always enjoyed you. In fact, I was sitting down last night. So how many students or children have I touched? And I think it was somewhere between 50 606,000 Because of in the 40 years, I would say the average class size range from about 140 to about 150. And our history somewhere between 606 to 6000. I have nieces and nephews but I don't have a children myself. I think I spent too much time in the class. That was so, so fun. I just didn't want to stay out stay outside never took time to have a baby.Interviewer 4:19 Yeah, that's right. Um, what was your only schooling like, where did you go to school IMary Virginia Jones 4:25 attended two schools. I went to Flinders Street School, which is now the Sadie Salter school. Not far from here. We walked through there were no school buses, because we live in town so we didn't have to worry about a school bus leaving the country. I went to that school, I think for grades one through four. And then I moved to what used to be the CFS School. And from there I did grades five through 12 Great were graduating. I graduated from EPS Go as valedictorian.Interviewer 5:01 Oh, wow. Well, congratulations. Thank you. Um, what was it like,Mary Virginia Jones 5:08 at the school at the schools? Okay. Discipline was very important. home life was very important. There was a closeness between the home and the school.Interviewer 5:20 Did your did you find that your teachers came in visited your homeMary Virginia Jones 5:23 occasionally, or if they didn't visit, you know, in the home, they would visit at church, or sometimes it was visit at the grocery store. And they didn't mind using the telephone. If they thought there was some, some matters that needed to have been discussed, they would come to them. And parents were not quite so they're very different from what they are today. Many times parents today, get on the defensive, and they say, No, I know, my child didn't do that. And I always hate it. Well, parents tell me that my child won't love my child. And we will I want to say, you would like to say I hope my child wouldn't lie or who my child would do that. But because you don't know what the child might do. gets pushed in a corner. Somebody might say, well, I need to tell a little lie to get out of this, you know, but when I was growing up, it was the teachers word. The child could say anything they want to, but the parent chose to believe the teacher. And it wasn't that the parents didn't trust the child. But the parents weren't those children to grow up with respect to those teachers.Interviewer 6:32 Did you have a particularly favorite teacher? In your younger? Yes.Mary Virginia Jones 6:37 When I was in, I guess an elementary school. It was probably Mrs. Lena Brown, who became the principal at South Greenville school. She's now in arrest but she I think she said we got below she she was a member of my church and she has she has a crippling arthritis. So she was in the in the game of go for about I think she's back home. Now. She lived back. She lives on Westfield Street, which her house is right in front of the spot where the school. But yep, school was right, you go to the end of this street. And the only thing is level courses, the jeans, which is a helmet, right? Just in front of the gym with that space where the school actually walks.Interviewer 7:25 Every time I pass father, I hate to think they're told that.Mary Virginia Jones 7:28 That's right. They should have saved it for some kind of archives or somehow they should Miss Brown, who was my I believe my sixth grade teacher had when I was just special to me. She has such a caring attitude. About two I don't think he ever had and children but she just loved. And I was also very fond of a map of an art teacher that I had when they was Mrs. Maj virus out there. That she stayed here a long time and I think she finally moved to Southern New Jersey and she died just a few years ago. But the one that inspired me most to go into teaching is still living to live right down the street at the very end is on Nassau Street, corner, this tree and mash. And of course she could walk to school. I mean, she could just step just a few years. Her name is Mrs. Agha baffled by yours. She was my English teacher for grades nine and 10. And of course all the teachers I really love but this is my back. I told her just sitting there solid at church. She doesn't get out too much now because she has arthritis and several other ailments, I guess go along with old age. And I was telling her I said you know you I've told you several times I said but you really inspired me to become an English teacher. Because when I finished high school, I was really planning to go to nursing school, because my mother always enjoyed nursing, and she just did nursing, kind of on the side of kind of part time. And she my mother was really smart. She didn't. She didn't finish high school. But she got I think maybe through ninth grade or something like that. And when she was coming, of course, ninth grade was a lot. I mean, that was a milestone to get that far in high school. So after she began to get so interested in nursing, she took correspondence courses, I think through the Chicago School of Nursing. And she just worked at it and then she got a chance to do some work and several clinics around in Pitt County. She worked, I think at a hospital and Wilson and she did some clinical work in Bethel and several other places. So she weren't smart enough to study to get her LPN or her Licensed Practical Nursing degree.Interviewer 9:42 And you were almostMary Virginia Jones 9:44 going I was almost Yeah, I had already snapped application that was going to start it started Charlotte there was a Good Samaritan Hospital there that that was kind of connected to what is now the Johnson C. Smith School, and the vet nursing programs tab. They with their school. And this was really plan to even have a small scholarship then. And I think it was so funny because that make about the amount of scholarships today. That was $110. Wow. But that was going it'll go a long way. But then it was but Mrs. Meyers said to me, she said, she called me Jenny. She said, You know, you really have something special need to go to the classroom. And I thought about it. And then at the last minute, I decided I would go to North Carolina a&t was at university, I didn't it was at college. And that's where I went. And I entered there in September of 14, oh, that's my graduate high school. And they took part of several activities. I never joined a sorority, but everybody was trying to recruit me. so forth. And there, I graduated with highest honors. Well, and I started with a double degree, and double majored in English and French. Wow, I did not know that. You know, most of you know, when I first started teaching, I taught you know, something, but it was mostly English because they didn't have that many students taking French. But knowing the French, of course, has helped me, even with the English and English has also helped me to live in France.Interviewer 11:22 How long did it take you to graduate? Four years, say you were able to go full time.Mary Virginia Jones 11:29 That was a real blessing. My mother, my mother's day to sacrifice. And I was the next to the oldest child I had one brother who was older. He got through the 11th grade, then he went into service. But I was the first one in the family to go to college. So my mom and dad struggled and struggled but you know, our tuition, my tuition was paid on time. And then in the summer said, I worked hard, you know, we worked in green tobacco, that is dirty work. That is hard. It is that is hard work. But she made sure to get a job we work say maybe, I guess maybe about four weeks during the summer. That was mostly tobacco season. And then I remember when I was I think it was my last year in high school. I did have a job as a cashier or the ticket cashier at what is called the Roxy theater. That is a that is still standing but they don't use it as a theater. I think they use it. Maybe for group group singing and have a little problem that you might want. You probably can read that building. But it used to be a theater, and I worked on the weekend my mother would let me do a few hours. And I really thought I was you know got above the tobacco got chance to to sell a few tickets to the Friday evening. theater goers and the Saturday theater courseInterviewer 12:54 that's so mean it's such a beautiful building.Mary Virginia Jones 12:58 It's still standing, there was a lot of although money that I made, gave with my mom and then she helped me to get a little a bank account, not a checking account. So you wouldn't be you know, taking any of it out. And that little money we would draw out. Just folks have to go back to school to buy a few things that need it. But let's say she sold for so well. So that helped a lot that I will clothings a little bit cheaper. Well, where did you get your your first job? Interestingly, I started to work at a little junior college called Kittrell junior college, you've probably never heard of it. But you might have you might have heard of Henderson, North Carolina. West Kittrell is a little tiny places. I guess it has a post office, maybe a convenience store and and that little school. It was a little school that was run by the Methodists. And I took that job at that law school only because it was getting late and I had not gotten a job. I had not got a job. What I did before I got a job i i did some substitute work for a teacher at the south at school, which is no longer there. I worked there for I think maybe about three weeks is the mayor who was placed I was working in had gone to New York to stay with a mother who was very ill. So I guess that that that little experience kind of got my foot in the door. But in the meantime, I took the job at Kittrell because I don't think they open until maybe like the last of September so I got that job. And we stayed in a dormitory is say it used to be the kind of going school you know, I had never heard of it really but I just took it. The pay was very, very small. We ate in the cafeteria with the students the students were you know just went to the Edie, but this school offered education for students, grades 11 and 12. And my first year of college like a junior college. So that was kind of interesting experience.Interviewer 15:14 Was it a? Was it a? Was it a secondary school?Mary Virginia Jones 15:17 Yeah, it was like, it was all black. And that was back that was 1953 to 54.Interviewer 15:26 What was it like living in the dorms for Israel, there's otherMary Virginia Jones 15:29 teachers where I didn't care that much more, because I thought maybe when I got out of college, you know, I was out of the dark. But that was where we were. And I kept saying, maybe I can put up with this for a year, you know, thinking that maybe something else is gonna come up. And I just took the job, really, so I could have a low income. I was out of school, I didn't want want to have to fall back on my parents and so forth. And then I said, Well, if I can do this, and I can use this, to put down on a resume that I've had a year of experience, because the problem is if you try to get a job, the application always ask what experiences you had and keep saying, Gosh, if somebody doesn't give you a job, somebody's got to be the first one to hire you and never get any experience. Right? But it was okay, living in the dormitory, there must have been about maybe, maybe about six, maybe six to eight teachers. And the student body was small, most of them had come from the churches, some as far as Washington, DC. And then one little girl that was there from Bermuda. We had a variety, personalities.Interviewer 16:42 Where did you get your next teaching position? Okay, did you end up back here? Okay.Mary Virginia Jones 16:46 Okay, we I had done the three weeks of substitute the teacher, the teacher that she left, but anyway, they had an opening in English. And the principal had always told my dad this, my dad told me later that his name was JW online. And he said, If I ever get an opening, I sure want to power your daughter say because she did such a great job. And she could say even though she was young and just had a school, she could keep the students in that place and so forth. And I was really young, I think I was maybe 20 years old.Interviewer 17:23 And I was younger than that older than you? Well, IMary Virginia Jones 17:26 have a believer that I had about three students who were older because they were veterans. And they had just got out of out of the service. And at that time, I think they were getting a check to go back to school. Obviously, I was trying to get them back. So they could do something, you know, with their lives. So I had three guys who I think one was my age. I think the other two were a little bit older. That's interesting that really so anyway, I got that job, you know, an opening came up and this woman called and asked me if I would be interested. And I said, Yes, I think so. So I went down to eight. And I had an interview with him. But the one thing he said he said, Now we want the new teachers to live in eight. Oh my gosh, this tip man, at the time, I didn't drive. And he said, there are a couple of places he a couple of homes. Where do teachers sometimes you know, we'll stay told them well, let me at least stay home for the first month and I will consider it. But I didn't ever. I did not want to stay in a you know, I say gosh is so close. But he was doing it and try to bring that closeness between the school and the home. So I didn't ever say an eight, I could mute it for I guess I could muted until all the while I was there. 12 the 12 years. I was there from 90 From September 5 54. Until June 66. As they write them, how did you get there? If the later that I can meet there were about there must have been at least six or seven teachers from Greenville who were teaching in a town and the lady that I commuted with live right across the street from me really almost across the street from where a lot was convenient. So she picked it up. There were five of us that rode you know, two or three in the back into the front. So I said lady told me one of the teachers said, you know, gentleman really don't have to move down his desk or something like that. He was kind of surgeons and that was part of the requirements. But it was but I enjoyed this. That school was what we call a union school that was from grades one through 12. And I was teaching Haskell in different ways thatInterviewer 19:54 I know that from reading. A teacher had a student as long as Come on, teachers stuff that they felt that their, their responsibilities to the children went beyond just the classroom schooling functions did you feel,Mary Virginia Jones 20:10 especially when I was in, in eighth as this to some homes, I found myself taking some of my clothing, give them to some of the students because though that community was very cool, and most of the families were all families, and I would say, I would say three fourths of my students lived on farms. They were like sharecroppers, and something. And most of them had very low economic levels, some of them would come. And their shoes would be ready, you know, your heart would just go out for them. In fact, this is kind of getting off the subject a little bit. But last, last Saturday, I made it to San Francisco ago. My husband, my husband's churches gave me a little appreciation service. And they have invited different people. And some of them were given tributes. And there was one of my former students there who is now a minister. And she got up to say, and I had forgotten this, she said, I remember Mrs. Jones, I was Miss Jones. And by the way, I'm Meredith Jones. She said, I'll never forget Miss Jones, she said, Because I remember, we were from a poor family. But she said, I didn't know we were poor. Somebody told us we were poor, because we had a lot of love. And she said that she had never her oldest sister whose name was Nene did not have any decent shoes. She had come to school a few days to housing shoes that was so ragged, and she said, believe it or not, my mom had lad the shoe, with a piece of the knowing you know what the norm is this. And she said, Miss Jones got a student, one of her other students to go downtown in a too bad, maybe pair of shoes. And I forgot it. And that's been bodies have been done a long, long time ago. And she said she had her sister talk about that really all. So I was always taking things. Now, of course, I couldn't do that at Rose High School, because the students were from families that were other more more I thought well, higher economic level. And sometimes people think if you give them something that you are somewhat throwing off on them. So you have to be really, really careful when you give even today, if you try to give somebody something you have to be really, really careful. Because the parent could really, I guess call you up and say what makes you think my child needs your hand me down? Well, when I was in a, an eagle when I worked at I worked at IPs, by the way for three years that was groundbreaking next, but Aiden was very very to it was a it was a really good teaching experience. We didn't have a lot of things to work with. We didn't have the tape recorders. I remember just before I left a maybe, maybe a couple of years before I left the school family purchased to tape recorders. They were the Lord not that like that, like this. And those two had to be shared by the home school, not as grades one through 20. Wow, we had very little to work with. So when I started working at Rose, and we would be in the English department meetings and some of the teachers will start complaining and then we need this. We don't have this. So let me tell you also, as I did my best teaching probably with a piece of chalk, and a Blackboard as the best I'll ever textbook. So that's what I used. I did not have a tape recorder or a VCR or any of these other things you've been in the schools that they have everythingInterviewer 23:41 you spend. When did you meet your husband?Mary Virginia Jones 23:47 Okay, I met him when I was working at South eighth school. My husband comes from Pitt County. He grew up in a farm area very cool area near where to live just a few miles from here. And I had actually taught some of his cousins I didn't know anything about him. And he was my husband was well he was my husband and but he was living in New Haven, Connecticut. So he was working. He was pastoring a small church. But he was working at the I think Winchester plant where they make a really made guns and other things like that. So he would come home occasionally to see his his grandfather who had reared his mother didn't did. His mother gave him to her daddy, and then the grant, the daddy, the grandfather who was married and everybody in that community said that this lady that their his grandpa could not have cared for a child and well she had given birth to that child that was only the mother he actually knew. I mean, he knew his his natural mother, but that was when he called mom but I got to know To, to know him through one of my former students who was his cousin. And we were I remember we were having a little social at school, when Saturday afternoon something for the children. And I was there, you know, chaperone. And the fellows name was Herman Herman banks. And he said, cousin Steve, I know somebody that would be nice for you. He said, I've got a teacher. She's tough. Her name is we call this LD Jones. They That's what they always call you, then, you know, by initials. And so he came out, he's like the leader. So we were introduced like that. And then we just had a few words. And that was it laid off here, as you say, what could I come by to see you went, sometimes when I'm home, you know, from Connecticut. And we just thought it in a develop a little relationship like that. And then I would say maybe about two years after I had met, and we got married, we got married in New Haven, Connecticut, and went to Yale University with some of our specialists. There was a site and a special scouting, study, a Shakespearean Institute. And while I was there, that's when we got married. What year was 1959? Wow, you've been marriedInterviewer 26:13 a long time? What did you think of your career? As a teacher?Mary Virginia Jones 26:18 What did he think of it? Well, he knew that I loved it. So he said, You know, first we thought about staying committed. And I said, you know, I really hate to leave he. He said, well, there may be what we need to do is to relocate and go back to Greenville. And his password is even if I just guard in fact, that basically just sold the poll, which, you know, raises based business, and sales on software. But anyway, he can do anything. I mean, he's a jack of all trades, you can work with his hands, he can work on cars, you can just buy anything you could think of in fact, I guess we save a lot of dollars around him, but he could do so many things himself. He said, Gosh, if you didn't have didn't have another man that could do something, you would have to pay for every little thing you so that he he wanted me to be happy, because he knew that I loved my teaching career. So he just just fell he just came in and he said, I will forever relocate myself that to you. They have to pull up stakes. And so we came back and we stayed with my parents for about a month. And then after that, we moved out and then I stayed with an elderly. Well, not so old, either. But a great aunt who lived at the end of Well, no, she lived on Fifth Street, which is a next street old, all the way down just a few, just a few steps from the school from school. And only she and her husband were they have her husband, of course was my great uncle. And she did work she used to watch an hour for all the lawyers and the doctors and you know, here in town, and they let it go. She washed the clothes and her washing machine an old fashioned kind of regular tie. You probably went on TV something and then but she bought clothes to kind of bleach in a big earring pot. Wow. And you can't find those pots now. Can it be almost like antiques, but a couple of days a week she would say Well, today is my wife's day, she will be able to fire under that pot. And she would you know, she said those lawyers and doctors they just loved for her to watch and then she would do the audit she would she she used to earn with there was a flat and a kind of cannabis. It was like heavy iron was black, the kind of Hida backhand. And then of course, later on, you'll see advances and she got one of the electric cars but she was still use those. She liked both and she could fold those shirts up so beautiful. And did she know what's good or bad. They would use the brain and stuff in a large basket about like this. And she would put her things in, put a towel over.Mary Virginia Jones 29:01 They'd all come and pick up one. They this felt when she got it that you know, I guess I guess it's eight to 10 years ago, but they called her her name is Winnie Daniels. And they loveMary Virginia Jones 29:16 loved for her to the doctor a cop who is now dead. He has a lot of family members. That was one of her may that was one of her main points. That was her doctor. And she also watched.Interviewer 29:29 Wow, that's really neat. So you live with her.Mary Virginia Jones 29:33 I live with her. We yeah for about I guess about a year. And then after that we moved into an apartment on McKinley Avenue, the street I had grown up on not perfect, just almost diagonally across the street from where I had grown up. We stayed there for about I guess maybe about We used and then the thing that where we ended up buying this little house was every time you turn around the man was going up on the roof of the van. So he said that last time we welcomed the rent. It was so much he decided just kind of look around and he saw this little house when they start killing it. It used to be a nice neighborhood. It's not a really nice rake of crab. whispering and this is really hard. You might hear gunshots all night long. I mean, anything goes you know, but I told Mr. Willer we weren't as old as we are, we would lose some weight, but I guess we lose some whales. Sometimes you move into a situation was just as bad or even worse is real causes. I told myself we really need a little more space, but they're just two of us. So if we have to have some comfortably just open up a chair and you know, people just make do with whatever. That's right.Interviewer 30:51 It's for my parents.

Interviewer 0:15 See if I get there? Yes. I want to ask you. So you started teaching it Eppes , when?Mary Virginia Jones 0:06 Okay. I taught it Eppes from August, or August or September of 66 until 69. Three years that, in fact, I had not planned to the south eighth, I love South eighth school, I have fallen in love with those students. And but we were just all so close. I mean, we were almost like family, we were really, really charming. And the students, then were a little different from what they are now, the students then have much more respect for teachers. To be a teacher was to be in a very honorable profession. Today, students and a teacher, that's just another, you know, whatever. So I loved eighth. And what happened was that summer of 66, I taught summer school, the only time I've ever really taught summer school I had always said, I worked so hard during the school year that I don't need to teach. I need to save my energy for the summer. But anyway, Mr. Merrill, who was then the President, and he's a new principal, who had been my high school math teacher, he taught me geometry. He taught me algebra and trigonometry, I believe. He was now the principal. And he said, You know, I need an English teacher for the summer. And I said, Mr. Well, I'm really not interested. But he kept he said, he said, You know, I'm really in a bind and I can't get any of the older English teachers. I said okay. I'll do it. And at that time, I was living here. So I walked. I didn't have my license. I was just slowly came. In fact, I just never took an interest. Because my husband always kept me here. If I had to go to the beauty parlor, he had take me so later on, I just set up getting to drive by but it was just a five minute walk from here down to the corner. But I went there for the summer. And while I was there, Mr. Murrow said, you know, I really need an English teacher for the regular school year. Are you interested? I said, No, sir. I'm not, I just don't. I said, I'm on the contract as a South Asian piece of this job, we can take care of that. And Mr. J. H. Rose was the was the superintendent at that time, and I knew him really well. And so you want to get him so you don't have to commute. And so and so. And finally, I let him I mean, very reluctantly, I let him talk me into taking the job over here. I had to sit down and write this letter to Mr. Obama, and to the superintendent. And I really cried for an idea. Because as Curtis has been making the right decision of the world, I'm not gonna try to employ you do what you asked him. I love those children so much that I just love them. I really did. Because they were just so close us like family. And so I took the job at Eppes. In September of 66, I stayed there for three years. I taught English at it 11th through 11th grade. And I had one French class. And the teachers received me so well, especially the ones that have been my teachers say, Mrs. Davenport, who's husband had been the principal who became real close to me. She taught me French in high school. Mrs. Meyers, when they mix that had inspired me so much, had taught me English, Mrs. Graves, another one the English teacher had taught me in the 11th and 12th grade. And Mrs. Thompson who died I think may be about to have even a year, who live also, they all lived kinda right down in the area right there by the school. So they just received me as if I would just end up coming. I mean, one or two, the other teachers I think they were a little bit jealous. And how do you get in with the, they call it the board. Board? You know, the big? Oh, I didn't know they were the big bucks, you know, and I don't know, I just come into my work. But I got along really well. And then one year I was made in there, maybe maybe the second year, became one of the senior class advisors. And one I think that last year, I was there. I was just there for a year. They dedicated the the yearbook to me. Oh, that's what an honor. And I just got here, you know, that's really nice. So it was a good yeah, it was it was and then of course, the schools desegregated. So then, several of the teachers from Eppes were sent to Rose High School. If you want to adjust if the year before that they had done a little what I call a token integration, because they sent Mrs. Davenport, who was a French teacher. They had sent Jean Dart you remember her? But she definitely, I believe so I remember hearing Jean Dart used to be an English teacher. And then she became an assistant principal. She's very pretty late Jean died I guess. Maybe three years ago. She had cancer, I remember. But anyway, she, she was sent this demo. There was one other person then there were two or three students that went like Travis Duncan, you remember him used to be the templates counselor? Yes, ma'am. I'm sure. You know, Travis died suddenly like last year. He had worked up through the end of the school year, and all of a sudden, when he had gone to a picnic or a dinner that they had for the teachers. And I had talked to him that day. He stayed with his mother. And he went home. And he already had a heart attack. Anyway, he died in his sleep. And the next one, I mean, it was a real real shock. Someone who called and asked, I think was isoline, who's one of the custodians that she called and asked his motherMary Virginia Jones 6:26 was Travis running late because Travis is always there so early and this was making like, already eight o'clock, and Travis was there at like seven. And the mother said, I think he's gone. And she went, tap on his door. But he had locked the door. And the mother gets to figure out to get the door to open the door. Get it open. She called the daughter who live close to her. And Travis was dead. Course he was in really, I would have to say within rose trying one of the most stressful jobs. Yeah, that's right. Nobody. I told myself there's too much pressure, because Travis separate from high blood anyway. But Travis, a two or three other students were a few of the black students who went to to Rose, yet they had the choice of going that's right. That's right. That's right. I remember when I read, that's exactly what happened. Well, we had two or three teachers who went the year before I went there. And then of course, is 69. That's when, you know, all the teachers who were going to be sent, you know, were went there. And it was the kind of an interesting experience. And I just caught myself really blessed because I didn't get to any of those forms, skirmishes and the fights and things. There were a lot of teachers that couldn't, they just couldn't put up with it. They stuck. Mrs. Meyers with Miss Thompson, Mrs. Graves and Mrs. Davenport. They were the older ones. They were the ones that have received me so well when I went to Eppes and who had taught me? They tried it for one year? They were I'm trying I know Mrs. Meyers. I think two of them worked one year. And two of them worked like two years, but then they just felt like it was too much. So they didn't go back. They had time and as far as retiring, because each one had taught way past 30 years. Maybe like 40 years You already you know, did they do they leave because of just not getting respect from the white children? Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah, it was too much tension. And many times, the white children did not respect or some of the white teachers were not very cordial. And they just thought it was just too much pressure. They just in other words, it was a completely new lifestyle for me. It didn't bother me that much. Because even though I had not gone to school with white when I went to East Carolina, that's where I got my masters. I can tell you that. Oh, I got my masters from East Carolina.Interviewer 9:01 What year did you?Mary Virginia Jones 9:03 1960... Lets see. See, I was it. I got it before. I got it before 69. And I got it must be 64. Something about like that.Interviewer 9:21 So you sort of already had a taste ofMary Virginia Jones 9:23 Yeah, that's right. That's right. I got used to that. Because before I went to East Carolina, I had been floating around going to different schools just to do some graduate work. I had gone to North Carolina Central. There Yes, I might have been telling you about the situation when we first went to Rose. I got along really well because I had become accustomed to being in classes with white people. I mean, that didn't make a difference. For some reason. I don't know I was just always kind of low key. There was never any problem with me about what I'm sitting next. to a white person or to a black person that didnt bother me. And I, I just got along really well with everybody. If somebody treated me very cold, you're obviously a very cordial to them. I have a number of co workers that will pass on the polling. And they wouldn't speak, they turn to him, keep speaking, you know, and I was still saying, how you doing. And I remember when we used to have downtown's on Evans street with Evans Street Mall, and with all the stores were there. I remember a couple of ladies I used to every now and then. And I would see them. And if they saw me, first they would cross the street, you know keep from, I mean, so people can be so stupid, I call it I still would speak. But those teachers left because they just couldn't deal with but they weren't the only ones because there were some white teachers who left too. There was a home economics teacher. And I can't remember the lady's name, but she was getting all up in the age about the age of those ladies that have been an Eppes. She had a home economics class excuses that had, boys and girls. And there were a few students in that class that just worried that they'd almost have their favorite. Maybe like a radio Emma cabinet, or they were just a little thing just bugged me so to speak. And they just did things and did things and big things. And she finally just, she just couldn't take it anymore. I believe she stopped, like in the middle of a year or something. Did you? Um, did you find it was different teaching like children are a little a little. But when I asked him, I said, Well, I would tell them to I said, I don't teach white students. I don't teach black students. I just teach. I love teaching. And I just teach, I will never make any difference. And I said, I don't love one more than the other. I might not like somebody's ways. But I found that the white parent was a little bit more critical than the black parents. That was the main thing. And of course, there were there were white students that I had that I guess were trying me, you know, sometimes just to see if I really knew. And one particular case I'll always remember was Garrett Alford but now Garrett Alford father used to be the superintendent of Pitt County School. Alright, he's, he's there. And a lot of people didn't like they always said he was very racist. I don't know, because he was always nice to me. And I remember when he was, I guess, maybe like the supervisor before he actually came the superintendent. He had come to one of my classes when I was teaching a bit.Mary Virginia Jones 12:44 Mr. Alford had observed me teaching when I was at South Bay, and I was teaching them a lesson on Julius Caesar. And when he let everybody has said that he was very critical of what they were doing, I told my said when he was with me, as he told me when he left, that he learned more about Julius Caesar and that hour that he was in my class that he ever remembered. And so he always, you know, he was nice to me. And a lot of the black teachers just did not like him. And asked for his being racist or traits. I don't know. I have to decide people, by the way, they treat me I can't, I can't dislike somebody, because one of my friends, I don't like them, so you shouldn't like them either And so when I wrote my letter saying that I was leaving the Pitt county school and coming to the Greenville city school, I wrote Mr. Alford a really nice letter. And he said, I really hate for you to leave with a nice little bag. So every time he would see he said, he always called me traitor. Traitor, you left. One of the things that also helped me to make up my mind about going to Eppes, I had forgotten this was, again, they were getting ready for the law integration or desegregation. Mr. Alford had sent me a letter he said that he was going to send me to the White House and then it was in Griffin asked am I am I gonna get there? I don't drive I don't know, I knew a couple of people that commuted there, but they were in the elementary schools, definitely everything will be very convenient when the elementary schools pass on the high school will be on a different schedule. And I said, he said that he wanted me to that's what he wrote in the letters. He wanted me to go because he thought that I was one of the strongest, and he's seen this school system. And he thought that that's what he needed to send. And thats what we needed to send, you know, to the white schools. And I kept saying, Gosh, what, how am I gonna react to this? So I sat down. And I called his attention that he had issued a statement saying that the black students were, I don't know, X number of years behind where they should be, and that they needed somebody to really work and so I wrote him a letter that repeated his foot as I said, if you think that really I'm good enough to have strong enough to go or to teach in the white school, then I probably need to take those put those efforts to try to help bring up the black students from Joker up because that was what I told him, you know. And when he saw me at the bank or whatever he said, You know, I really hate it for you to make that choice. But he said it was a good choice, but I really wanted to keep you there. So we always got a lot of fine. But his son, Gary, was in, I think it was Gary was in one of my junior English class, and he did everything he can to try to worry me on the word, Im gonna make her stop. All he was into something all the time, he would always try to challenge me this. And I was always I didn't, I never went to the classrooms without being prepared. I mean, I might stay up an extra hour or two to make sure that I knew my subject matter. So one day, he kept saying something about, did I ask you to add No, something, whatever it was in the class, as to you know, I didn't want to say this to you guys. But let me tell you something, I am qualified. And if you don't believe it, you ask your father. I said, I work under your father. What his mouth proud, as you should ask, and he would tell you what I'm qualified to teach your son or not. I had no more trouble with Gary. Gary stayed in so much trouble. He and some black boys were always fighting, we ever fight where there was, you could be shoe Gary Alford was in and there were a couple of Black boys, you could be sure they were gonna be. So he found letters there and his daddy took him out of Rose. I believe he enrolled them in Farmville. And then they have another son, I think that that finished that rose, he was his much more low key than him and he was a good student and Gary have a penny of bills, but he didn't do much. But they were little experiences like that. And then I remember sometimes it would be with with the teacher, before they got the new wing of the Rose High School on Elm Street. It was kind of a scoot over. So we always sent to the black teachers were sent to Rose High School. And which meant we had to share classrooms like maybe if a teacher had a planning period, then another teacher would teach during that period. Or maybe two of us might be in a room to have to share a homeroom or something like that. And I remember some of the teachers were very, very unwilling to share their rooms.Mary Virginia Jones 17:30 So I said I'll do the best. I remember one particular class and this is the same class that Gary Alford was in I would go into the room got to be there on time. And this teacher had, I would lay my little things around the corner of the desk, then I would notice that when I go another day, she would always have something she would have some of her stuff you know, kind of filled up on the end. And then I said well I start putting stuff in the corner because I didn't want to start my class until she got out and she would always be late leaving the room she just took her time getting her stuff. But when you share your room with somebody, they used to supposed to have your stuff ready to go because that will become that other teachers room for that hour or whatever. But then she start having stuff like a coat love thing. So maybe sending the message very clearly she doesn't want me in this room. I say but I will be here so a few times she stayed so long I say Okay class let's get started, you know we can't wait to and I'm just putting stuff down on the floor and we go right on with whatever Oh, even if there was an empty student's desk or two I would lay my things there She did it so often. And then of course after a while, they finished the new wing. And I've got the classroom down to crossing the band room in room 119. And I stayed there a long time I really liked that room was kind of round right across from the band room. And I liked that room. It was always kind of chilly and you could hear the noise you know, the band room was to say at least I've got a classroom here liked it because it held these cabinets and it had a little room like a little storage room I guess but I kept a tight right on tape. If I was to use my lunch I was just typing and typing. And after just well if I had been assigned that room the same lady that did not one bit user requested that room and I got my classroom assignment at the end of that school year. I mean I use that room. I use that room from I think we got you we finished by Thanksgiving. But anyway, I was given the room and the man who was the Principar or the assistant principal that he said we are nobodies wanting to say this would be your room you stayed as long as you want I said thats fine with me and then that summer could could be my second year. This teacher asked for that room. I found it that way because I got a letter from her the portfolio that says that your your room assignment will be two 205 or something that the lady had more efficient here requests that will go Was it had air conditioning and the Oh, we did not have air conditioning. It also had these modern cabin, it was a really nice room. And she wanted that room. So after I sat down and cried I got when I sat down, I wrote the principal. And I wrote at the superintendent I think it was Fleetwood, I think. And I will just say how when I first went there, I had used about five or six different classrooms. Because I didn't have my own I had it sloped, you know, I even had my homeroom met in the band room. One of my English classes met in a typing group. And the teacher will begin leaving notes, please don't let students bother the type writer, right? Well, you know, you would try that. But you got saved, maybe 30 students in the classroom, you can't you can't watch them out. And they have probably played with them, you know. And they might be doing this without, without you actually know that they, you know, bothering, and that they began to leave those up, please don't let students bother the typewriter. Get a room. But I remain patient. I didn't get uptight, I didn't get upset with anybody. I didn't get it all from complaints. And these teachers could treat me this way. I never uttered a sigh of complaint. I just kept saying that, of course, I got home. And I kept that room until I don't remember what year I've moved out of that room. But I was living alone. But they had to change that room to a business room, they had to install some computers. That's what that was, because of some parents who had some handicapped sons and daughters said that the students could not get upstairs to the business and where the computers were. So they didn't have any choice except to take that route and to make it into you know that. So I had to go over like you're the son, we get some, they get janitors to move my stuff. And I hate that was a heated move. Because I fall in love with that room. And I was kind of like, can you stay in the house for years, you give it to you guys to create all this stuff come from. But it was a good move so that I moved from room 119 to room 210 I want you to know my room number. And I stayed there until we got ready to move over to Rose High school.Interviewer 22:20 Yeah, cuz that's what I remember. Well, what do you think segregation works?Mary Virginia Jones 22:33 I think it has its good points. I think it has his bad points. As far as the black students when they were at school, they we didn't have lockers, you know, student lockers, which meant the students had to take their books home. And the lockers are nice. I think they students need those things where they can put away some things, they wouldn't have to lug everything everywhere. But as soon as those students from Eppes moved to Rose High school, their study habits well they went down because they'd leave their books at school. Not all of them. But I remember then they saw other students leaving their books. They thought, well, you know, no worries we got along. So the study habits I've noticed did go down. And the dress code was different. Because for a while there was no really rigid dress code. Okay, some of the students, some of the black students saw some of the white girls wearing shorts and other things. And they had not been allowed to do that at Eppes, they fail, right? If not, we don't put just fine. They said, Oh, if one can do it all can do. So then it just kind of relaxed the dress code. it in a way desegregation, that integration, I think definitely has had more advantages than disadvantages. Because people, I think the main thing is that people learn to live together. I think that's the most that's the strong. That's the plus point. I think they learned, I think they learned that it doesn't matter what color when skin is, you know, we all heal. And some students were saying, I don't think I would have ever, you know, chosen a white girl or white guy as my best friend. So they it took a while. But they began to stick no to see each other as humans. So that was a pleasant learning to get together. Because if the school had not integrated, the only time we will see somebody is as they maybe walking down the street, maybe at a store or something like that. But as far as sitting down getting chummy and and getting out things together, you would'nt have seen that. So it did teach people to come together and to see ESP people as sisters and brothers. So that's what we actually are. And then another strong point is that with the schools being integrated, the students were exposed to two more things. In other words, some of the things that require To have had like five tight riders confused, and the black schools had only a few of those things we had only three is that probably when I worked this out eight, there were two old fashioned take the course to serve the whole school. And then, of course, students now, you know, they learned some skills. And as the business we had had a really strong business department has some super business teachers where they learned to do, I mean, they could do almost anything. And then, of course, what we got here, and of course, they could learn to do even more things. One thing, a number of the students, of course, have been able to do it going through the Co Op program, and push me that they can leave that they can pick up enough skills to enter the world of work if they are not able to go to school and they finished. So there there have been a number of advantages, a number of advantages that there have been some disadvantages. But I think all in all, I think integration has had more, good points in there. Is there anything you would have changed and how integration is doing? Okay? I think we would have had a smoother opening at Rose High School. If the administrators, especially because they're the top of the school, had had a little bit more foresight, that we had a lot of riots who first and thank the Lord, I didn't get involved in anything, I was trying to protect people. In the cafeteria, there were some big murals, big pictures. And there was one big one that hadMary Virginia Jones 26:40 slaves picking cotton, now if the principal, if the principal would have thought you know, that will be very offensive to somebody to black children. But here, these blacks are real picking cotton. And then there were a couple other pictures around, you know, in the in the school that were offensive. And I remember one day a fight, I was not the cafeteria, but a fight broke out. Because some food everything they got together. So today, when we get to the cat, we gon take this food, we gon dash it on this picture. Someone just took their trays and just said they didn't care about how nasty the cafeteria was left for everything. That was one of those. And that's why I think they could have had a little bit more foresight, and saying, Okay, this is here to say, we don't have any choice, it's not gonna be freedom of choice. Now, this is your school. And it's gonna be the school that belongs to everybody. So if they had had a little bit more foresight, and they have been a little more straightforward with so in other words, don't get one group in your office and tell them one thing, and they get another group and tell them something. I'll never forget the person who was there when I first went there he couldn't deal with he finally just left he left before the first semester was over. The students scared him so bad because a group of white students were going in and they will say this and he would promise him that and then a group of blacks would go into the conference. And then when they just wear them so bad that when they they look and he was up on his desk and they couldn't he actually got scared and went under the desk were real arm so they you know he was up on his desk. He was scared. He was scared to death. I won't even call it but I work to have an approach to what I have worked. I think I jotted this down. I worked on the med presses during my 40 years of teaching at Pitt County. That's right. So this moment, and then I worked ar Eppes with Mr. Murrow who had been my math teacher in high school. And then from there. at Lowe's, I worked with Mr. Warren now who's not just in the state legislature, in the House of Representatives. And then I worked on the Mr. billion cops. That was the Katz was like an interim principal. Because he also was ended up being superintendent. I worked with him. And then I worked under Mr. Ali good. He became a superintendent later in life, Washington County school, worked on a Mr. Davenport, I think he had the shortest tenure at Rose in any state when he and he was a nice little fella came from near Charlotte, a little place called Monroe. And the teachers didn't like it. Not all this is a lot of the teachers didn't like him because he started the day with prayer. He only has a column he would call for the for and it was that it really got him in trouble. And then he changed. He tried to make too many drastic changes. I would say people are moving to a new system, a new job. You don't make drastic changes. You make changes gradually, gradually. And I remember because we were assigned to bathroom duty or do much of duty and things like that and that was the whole year. So you He was not there long some of the teachers, especially the white teachers, because they begin talking to their neighbors who were members of the Board of Education. And I told him, it was time to renew his contract. They didn't do it. And then he knew that pressure was being put on him. But I remember just before he left, maybe during the last two or three weeks, came in my room one morning, and after that was this feeling to the end when he came by see this gentleman, if I have a chance to stay over, which I hope I do, can you suggest anything that I should do differently? I wonder why he came to me. And I just don't know what I told him. I said, Well, you need to you need to be genuinely firm, but not mean. And you. You have to stick to whatever you say. You have to think about what you want to say

Mary Virginia Jones 0:03 You know, you must be genuine. And you must mean what you say. You can't say one thing today to me. And then tomorrow you say something different to somebody else I say you've got to think about what you're going to say. And then stick to that. And when I said, you know, some of these teachers complained that he wants to be here on time, but you come late, you see him come walking up. And I said, I don't have any problem. I think with prayer, I said, I said, I start my morning with prayer. I said, But, you know, it had been a very controversial issue about trying to put prayers in school I say so instead of trying to just insist that people have to pray, as I'm not sure that was a really good move. Because there's nothing wrong with praying as well, can you start on the intercom, and the more you say, Okay, this is how we're going to pray. I said, I think you kind of knew what this what the system felt about that. But as the main thing, being genuine, and then making sure you stick to what you're saying, you know, don't just be changing. Don't be like the lizard that say, can change his color, depending on you know, what kind of wall he's on or something like that. But he treated me nicely. As I said, I have, I don't remember any, any bad experience that I had, and all my four years of teaching with the other nine person. I don't remember any bad experience, I was always trying to go to the aid of somebody. And I had several student teachers, I supervise several student teachers. In fact, for a while, while I was at Rose, I was getting two student teachers a year, everybody was requesting me. And also they did get some nice because the teachers, the student teacher would have a really good experience of being in class, try to get her try to get her. So I have a lot of student teachers. And I've tried to help shape and mold them. And some of them I've kept in contact with. I know one that lives in Warsaw, and I know she has, she's been out teaching English and she have the her oldest child must be like 13. So it's been a long time. And I just had a lot and I had some really good ones. And those that were weak, you know, I tried to talk with them and try to show them how they could improve. But I would never, excuse me embarrass a student teacher from another school because if the student did it wrong, obviously, you know, we need to talk about the school with you the sources would be you could have said such and such. And then there was some that I had to actually teach the grammar they'd come from East Carolina and they do very little grammar. Yeah, they knew very little grammar. And they just appreciate it my helpfulness. And I would give them materials and every student teachers I've had the student teacher got ready to leave, I would find some of my materials that I had had preserved and I had kept the person I said, you can have this if you can make use of it, maybe for next year. I hope you get a job. And they sent me Christmas cards. And the parents had a lot of respect for me. I used to get flowers. On various occasions. There's a Dr. Walsh, who is now retired. He was the urologist I think, I taught. I think I told all of his children, I think he had four boys and one girl. And they always would tell the Mom, Mom, don't forget, it's it's time to send this gentleman flowers. And the flowers would come and they did it and make somebody will call it says this shows you have flowers downstairs or whatever. But they would send me something all the time. I mean, it just kind of. I mean, I just always remember those nice little things, you know. And it wasn't just that they were simply letters. Well, I thank you for having been my son's teacher of my daughter's teacher. And now, I mean, before I finished my 40 years here, I was teaching the children of some of the moms or the moms I had taught and so and they just kind of like said, you know, I bet you taught my mom I said well probably do things like that. And they keep asking why do you keep coming back to Rose High School. You say you retire that's right answer, but I love you. I love children. I love Rose High School. And I want to substitute this but I go to only one school and thats Rose I could have I could have a job every day subbing because somebody's always trying to get me but we fill out the little form saying what schools you want to be called. I will just put Rose only because it's not too far from around the Yeah, that's it's got to be kind of convenient for me. And then I can go over to the school and nobody has to show me where the classroom is. You already know where it is. So at the at the Rose High School that is now on Arlington where I do my subbing and I was at that school. I think I've worked at that school three years.Interviewer 5:00 So, you know, you retired in 96.Mary Virginia Jones 5:04 At the end of May. But the hardest thing to try to leave Rose High School from Elm Street because we knew that it was here, we just cannot get around it. We knew we were gonna move us we had to take the ninth grade. Yeah. And we have these boxes, we have special needs saying how you're supposed to label the boxes and this.Interviewer 5:28 But it was it was hard for me to I didn't get to graduate from the old school.Mary Virginia Jones 5:33 From a packing up stuff. We just ordered we were just getting ready just be crying. And I'll tell you for for at least a half school year I found myself going in the wrong direction. Because when I was going to Rose High on Elm Street, I would go to this quarter turn and good to go the 4th street the next street over that I keep 4th street until I got down to Elm. And then I turn back to the right. You know, I'll be right there. And it, it was just hard for me to believe that I was not going the same route. So oh my gosh, I'm going away. And I would find myself going near them and I sometimes have to turn around and go back because it's lit in different directions. Yes, they are. And that school on Elm street is a school that I've always called home Rose High School.Interviewer 6:32 I have to say that. I still call it at least the old Rose.Mary Virginia Jones 6:36 Yeah, that's right. Students still do you mean the old Rose? Rose? Yeah. And I say the old rose now is still there a littleInterviewer 6:45 That's right. And that it's hard for me to because both my parents in northern graduated from from that build. Okay. And I believe one of my aunts did okay. And uncle.Mary Virginia Jones 7:00 Yeah, that's right. It's like home. Yeah, it wasInterviewer 7:03 nice and close. Now my brother's going to the new one. How many brothers you have?Mary Virginia Jones 7:08 [The one] what grade is he in?Interviewer 8:07 He is sophomore this year.Mary Virginia Jones 8:07 Okay, what's his name?Interviewer 8:07 Kirk Russel.Mary Virginia Jones 8:07 I may run into a one day. Yeah, it was. I ran into students as students speak to me all the time, at school or at the mall, or we have some other saying, Hey, Miss Jones. And I'll say hi there then. So now who are you? Don't you remember you sub to so and so's class? So either they might say, I didn't have you when I was in school, but my brother did or my sister and I said, okay, but they always speak to them. Or if they see me at Walmart, or wherever, there was always speaking to me. And then I've run into some of my students that graduated, say 15 20 25 years ago, when I first start working at Rose, they will say Do you remember me? And I'm pretty good about remembering faces. And they think I'm really good at remembering names, but don't remember all. I will say let me think, oh, use it. How do you do? That's how I do it with these days, I've been pretty good at remembering names. And I can remember handwriting for some reason.Interviewer 7:38 Well, you're an English teacherMary Virginia Jones 8:11 Yeah, pretty much remember that and everything. But I enjoyed my years of teaching. I had many more good days, then I had bad days.Interviewer 8:24 One last question I want to ask you was how was teaching changed since you began? How? You know, what do you think was good or bad? OrMary Virginia Jones 8:37 do you mean, with the students with the teachers, or just?Interviewer 8:42 Both.Mary Virginia Jones 8:44 Alright, students today don't seem to be quite as concerned about getting an education. When I say students, I don't mean everybody, because there's always that group. That's going to work hard, and they're going to get a good education. But students, many students today go to school. Because the law requires you to go until your 15 or 16. Others go because the parents say, you go to school, or either you got to stop and get a job. I say to the message, I said, some of you just here because your parents gave you a choice. You either go to school, but you could get a job. And you feel like it's a little bit easier to go to school, because the parents are going to provide. But many students today don't take education seriously. They have so many advantages. And I talk about that the students who say, Why do you always think that as I say it, because it's true. They just have so many. I mean, they can do anything that they can come out of high school and say he said that high school was my finishing education because you got to learn because they can go to the world of work. They just have everything at their fingertips. Today. There's more hands on, you know, situation, they got the computer, everything now, of course is computerized, so that everybody in the school is supposed to have some hands on experience with the computers, which is good. So the technology and so forth. Of course, you know has advanced education, some students are not taken advantage of. There are others who are eating up every bit of their take everything that the teacher puts out for them, they go to get it, they're gonna get it. Some of the things that I noticed, some students have said, is not they're not as respectful as I would like to see. I think the dress code has become too relaxed. I can't stand, I guess, I guess I told my son Im from the old school, I can't stand to see your britches hanging down to your knees, you see the guys. And I would say, raise your belt. I don't even know the guy said you pull your pants up. And if Ella Harris sees them going down the hall she will confront from she said, pull your pants up, seem to fall. And they do it. So some of the students still don't respect teachers. And I get upset because I see a number of black students that still don't respect white teachers. I mean, they don't respect anybody, not even themselves. But they don't respect white teachers. And I have told people so you know, I'm not sure how well I would do if I were a white teacher trying to deal with some of the black students, because I've seen some really ugly ones. And I just have parents, so don't think I'm saying that these children are because they're black. And you think that I'm and somebody might say, well, you going white, so I'm going the way Im going the way thats right. I see a lack of respect among students, for adults, I see a lack of respect among students among themselves, and I see a lack of respect with them, I see a lack of self respect, I see that more than I used to see it.Mary Virginia Jones 12:09 There were times in the olden days, or maybe say, maybe say 20 years ago. I mean, even before I went to Rose, I could see a little bit more respect, I can see student if a student use a bit of profanity and the teacher just happen to come along, you will see they'll put their hands up and they will say I'm sorry, like that. Now, if a student curses, or use some other profane language, it doesn't matter whom they see passing. It's like saying, well, that's the way it is, you know, close your ears if you don't want to hear it. So I see that I mean, which is not good, you know, I mean, that that's the way it is today, a long time ago, the students would be more respectful to their teachers than they were respectful to their parents, even with the classmates, because I've seen maybe occasionally in a parent teacher conference that involves a student where the student was not doing so well, or there's some confrontation, I have sat in the guidance office in some conference room, where a student has literally talked back to the, to the mom and dad, Now had that did my mom and dad, because they wouldn't have needed to be there, they would have hit me as bad they would have, they would have punished me right there. And I have heard one or two counselors say that every once in a while, a parent would get up and almost, you know, abuse that child, you know, they can't, you know, they said maybe I should'nt, but they see parents who get so upset with their children's behavior, that they are really to punish them right then. So you still have a few parents who demand self respect, or the respect for themselves and for the children. But I think the white teachers on the whole, really, I don't know how many. But there's a large percentage of white teachers who are afraid to discipline black children. I would like to see them be able to discipline children as if their children in green, black, whatever. But it really kind of bothers me, I think the white teachers put up with much more than the average black teacher. I really do. I really do. I see that even when I go, to sub. Because I've seen sometimes I'll see maybe a student on the hall. Maybe it's kind of talking about the teacher. Sometimes I'll even intervene and I don't have to do that. Not to say, you shouldn't be saying that, you know, better or something like that. I guess maybe I'll get my face slapped. But not often. Because I've now goten into somebody esles business that says didn't but I don't like to see anybody cutting anybody and since then, especially children, not respecting adults.Interviewer 14:47 Can you think it's harder to be a teacher nowadays?Mary Virginia Jones 14:50 Yes. I know it's hard to be teacher. I can see that when I go back to substitute. And I've already said that in the next few years. Theres gonna be a scarcity of teachers, because there are so many discipline problems in the school, even though a school might a school administration might say, we are good at this area, we have strong discipline. But this this problems, and the younger teachers are not going to tolerate the things that older teachers put up with. They might work a year, some of might work five years, because maybe they got that teachers teaching fellows thing. And they have to work like four or five years and did to pay back so to speak. And then after that, they've gone into industry, and gone back to well, I'm going to go back and get another degree, so that I can teach on college level. I hear some a lot of the students who I bet, I'll bet half of the student teachers that come through Rose, decide that they don't want to teach high school to the finish. They decided they really they want to teach, but they want to teach on college level where the students are there because they want to be there. IInterviewer 16:02 made that decision myself. teaching history, but I don't want it to be testedMary Virginia Jones 16:10 what it isInterviewer 16:12 in now. I don't think I have hesitations.Mary Virginia Jones 16:17 Oh, that's the end. And andInterviewer 16:21 I mean, really have the patience to teach children. Yeah, even though I think teachers are something important. Yeah. You know, howMary Virginia Jones 16:29 changing small key word is patience that some students have asked me and parents are too. How in the world? Can you put up with that, or whatever. I said, I've got more than the patience that {Jobe} has. Thats a biblical character known for his patience. So I've got a lot of patience. And I will say, you know, I can just sit right here this way too, because you can do that. But, um, school school is different. As I said, it's harder being a teacher. But I don't say that to try to discourage because I encourage them. But I tell sometimes when students are doing a survey in school, and I would say, I would ask, how many of you are going into teaching? Who? I mean, they shouldn't? No, no, no, no, you It's like saying, you asked us a bad word. You know, that's the kind of way they feel. And so somebody has to teach. And some of the students will say, yeah, you right? And then they will say, I don't see how you are put up with students that act like we do.Interviewer 17:29 Well, maybe you shouldn't act like that. And I took myMary Virginia Jones 17:31 son well, you know, you want to think about that, when you're given some teacher a hard way to go.Interviewer 17:38 have thought that, since I didn't have the patience to be teachers make a good one. And I would rather a student have a good teacher other than me, being a bad teacher, that would be? Well, that's why I wanted to give them the resumes that I would be educating.Mary Virginia Jones 17:56 That's right.Interviewer 17:57 in a sense, but more and more in a in a way that I can do it. Okay. And be patient.Mary Virginia Jones 18:05 Well, school, the schools are good, the schools have their good points, as I said, they offer so much to children. And they offer so much that if they could just have a closer bond between the home and the school, you have almost a perfect working situation. It is. But we have people we have parents tearing down the teacher teachers tearing down a parent. And one wanting to confront the other somehow the teacher wants to the teacher actually wants to say something to parent, but the teacher doesn't know how to things like that. So instead of received, yeah, that's why the least little thing you know, you've started to Well, now, one of the legal aspects of this, and that's everything now is you got to look at the legal aspects. And I can understand, you know, the reluctance, you know, to confront a parent or parents to a teacher about certain things, because you sent me they sent you here and say, I'll get my lawyer. You never heard so much about lawyers. And for the last several years, when I was in school, I never heard anything about a parent's I'm gonna get a lawyer. I want to do such and such a thing. I'm going out and tell that teacher. We didn't hear anything like that. No, we never heard anything like that. And so we've got some good points. We got some good points of school and we've got some bad. And I think all the students can improve. But as I said, I love Rose High School, because I spent the bulk of my teaching career there. Who did I love south 8th as well, just 12 years but when I go past and I see the little marker, they've got a marker. Some of the students who graduated have put a marker they could pull the site of the former South Eighth school or something like that. Just like right up here. They have Big stone a big marker on the front is facing 5th street and it says, home of the former C.M. EppesInterviewer 20:09 I'm still it's still eats me.Mary Virginia Jones 20:12 Yeah. Well, the same thing happened Ayden when the schools got ready to integrate or desegregate whichever deal. They have decide whether the students in the elementary school would go to South eighth school, or to the Ayden High School, because the high school that was going to be between Ayden and Grifton the A. Grifton school but what happened was that the administrators or whoever, superintendent of the Board of Education decided that the school for all the students would be the Ayden, middle school, the Ayden was, which had been the Ayden high school. That building was so old and delayed that I didn't know it. The South Eighth high school was in much better physical condition, because it would have been more recently structured. It was a good building. Yeah. But again, it was that answer is that we don't want our children to have to go across the railroad going out. But I bought them to the Ayden School, which was the Ayden High School with one of my former co workers who was at south Eighth high school who had been assigned to the middle school, instead of being sent to the A grifter school. So when they she said, come down with me. And so I can show you my room, they were just getting things in, the floors were warped, it was the building was in really bad shape. It was a much older building. Yeah. So that was that was why there's such bad shape. But instead of having all the students black and white, to go to the school that had been formally black, they could'nt deal with it the white commitee could'nt deal with it. Unfortunately, that's how the black children had, of course, come this way. You know, and things like that. But I think integration is improving. Some people said, we need to go back to the good old days, I said what where they, as the good old days are right now, whatever you make, whatever you make, as the and I tell this to I say you can make good out of a bad situation. And you can make bad, you can make a decision to make it bad. We can do. So I tell I used to tell the distances, they will say someone will say, you sound like my mom, you know, she said it says so well, you can count me as your mom away from home. But that's the that's the role of your teacher and your mom, or your parent, whichever you want to your grandma or maybe your grandma. But school has changed. It education has not really changed because it's still there. It's just that the schools are now providing a better education for to anybody that wants to go to school beyond preferring to go see the all these scholarships, if there's not a scholarship, you've got all these kinds of grants to get everything if you want to go you can do it. I tell students, I said there's no excuse, I said, I don't have the money. Because you don't have to have to if you just put yourself in the way and you really want to, and you're willing to work hard, you can do it. But they don't particularly you know, but they want an excuse. They don't want to go in and but it's just there are so many more things that are available to help students get an education than there were when I was there. As I said, I had a scholarship $410 And I thought that was good. That was gonna pay for a lot of things. But now, if somebody offered you a scholarship for $1,000, students don't even count that as much. But I tell him, I said anything somebody gives you, the person doesn't owe it to you. So you decide for whatever you get, I always try to teach all the students that I came in touch with that were under my supervision. So you need to be grateful for whatever, as if your parents can't give you a quarter is somebody else's parent, somebody else's Mother Father gives them $10 Can you be thankful for but that's not your mom is sacrificing your dad to sacrifice. You just be thankful, whatever you can. But if we could if we could bring up that level of respect, and I don't it has to be inborn. It has to come from the home.Mary Virginia Jones 24:27 And we have the whole criticizing the school, the school and criticizing the home. It has to be a closer bond between those two institutions. The home the church and the school are the three strongest institutions in the world. And Smith. That's it. I mean, they've got to come in closer together. Because parents don't don't work. If they don't come to a common understanding and say yeah, yeah, we can save our children from drugs. We can save them from prostitution, we can say Even from this so that we can kind of talk together yeah.Interviewer 25:05 I think that's about it.