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        <title>Oral History Interview of Orman E. Street, 
        <date when="1974-03-27">March 27, 1974</date></title>
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        <pb n="Page 1" />
        <table>
          <row>
            <cell role="data">SPECIAL COLLECTIONS ORAL HISTORY
            COLLECTION</cell>
          </row>
          <row>
            <cell role="data">ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEW #18</cell>
          </row>
          <row>
            <cell role="data">Orman E. Street</cell>
          </row>
          <row>
            <cell role="data">March 27, 1974</cell>
          </row>
        </table>
        <sp who="#name-00000029">
          <speaker>Charles Price</speaker>
          <p>We&#8217;d better get started on the second session
          this afternoon. Our speaker will be Professor Orman E.
          Street. A native of South Dakota, he received his
          bachelor&#8217;s degree at South Dakota State College,
          his master&#8217;s and PhD degree at Michigan State
          University. He was plant physiologist with the
          Connecticut Agricultural Experiment Station and then
          worked with the United States Department of Agriculture.
          In 1945 he was appointed professor of agronomy at Penn
          State and from there went to the University of Maryland
          where he was a specialist in agronomy until retiring in
          1969. He&#8217;s been a specialist in tobacco throughout
          his professional life, contributing a number of articles
          in the field to scholarly journals and experimental
          station bulletins. He has completed a book on far eastern
          tobacco production, which is to be published by Tobacco
          International. His present topic will be &#8220;The Far
          Eastern Tobacco Trade and Leaf Production.&#8221; It
          gives me pleasure in introducing Dr. Street to you.</p>
        </sp>
        <sp who="#name-00000030">
          <speaker>Orman Street</speaker>
          <p>I think it&#8217;s particularly merciful mine is the
          last presentation of the afternoon. I really expected
          that Bill Humphries would tell this story but then I
          realized that he was too young to be cognizant of that
          type of story. But the story was about the</p>
          <pb n="Page 2" />
          <p>man who knocked on the door of a house in a mining
          town and said, &#8220;Is this the home of the Widow
          Jones?&#8221; and she said, &#8220;This is the home of
          Mrs. Jones,&#8221; and he said, &#8220;Just wait for the
          black wagon that&#8217;s coming down the road.&#8221;
          Well I think we&#8217;ve heard all the black wagon
          stories that we need. I&#8217;m not a pessimist about the
          future of the American tobacco industry and particularly
          about the future of the flue-cured industry at least, and
          I think the reason probably is that what has been told
          you so well by Mr. Andrews especially this noon at the
          luncheon, that there is a unique quality about this
          tobacco. Now the use of the word good or bad,
          there&#8217;s sort of a moral issue involved in that in
          some cases. I think if we had to hear in this state and
          in the rest of the flue-cured states if we grew tobacco
          the way we did back in 1935 then we wouldn&#8217;t have
          the demand in the world market that we have today,
          because our tobacco techniques have been improved so very
          greatly. Whether you use the word good or better or
          whatever it is the tobacco has more taste and more punch
          to it, and the other tobaccos with which it&#8217;s
          blended, the other tobaccos produced in these other
          countries that seek our tobacco so eagerly, is mostly
          flat and tasteless. So it&#8217;s a matter of balancing
          the two types of tobacco in the cigarette and the proof
          of the pudding is the fact that the higher percentage of
          U.S. flue-cured they can afford to put into a cigarette
          the better sales they have for that particular cigarette
          in that particular country. Japan, for instance, I think
          Peace is the name of the cigarette, or Joy, I&#8217;ve
          forgotten which one, has about fifty percent U.S.
          flue-cured, and this is the nonpareil for all other
          cigarettes. As you go on down the scale you get to some
          that just have a [04:21] if you look at the wrapper, and
          that&#8217;s all there is, and they might sell for a
          third of the price of the superior cigarettes.</p>
          <pb n="Page 3" />
          <p>Well I&#8217;m digressing a little from my topic.
          I&#8217;m going to give somewhat of a historical sketch
          of Oriental production because I think this has quite a
          little bearing on what we have to do. Actually there was
          a time when belief was current that tobacco had been
          grown before Columbus discovered America, that it was
          grown in the Orient. Now the people who are in the Near
          East--and more often than not this particular statement
          is made by Turkish scientists. They say, ha, ha, we grew
          tobacco in 1367 or something like that. Well, those of
          you who know the leaf types and the leaf shapes of the
          Turkish tobaccos might be interested to know that these
          same heart-shaped leaves with long slender stems are
          found in the Japanese and the Chinese tobacco, but this
          doesn&#8217;t prevent the same Portuguese sailors from
          having dropped off seed in all these ports, which they
          probably did. This hypothesis that tobacco was a native
          plant to the Far East or the Middle East is completely
          disproven. There&#8217;s nothing there whatever to prove
          it. But the fact remains that the Portuguese and the
          Spaniards were seagoing people and they were journeying
          to the Far East and going around the [Cape of Good Hope]
          and sailing into these areas long before Columbus sailed
          to the Western world, and they were in search of the
          spices and the drugs and these other items.</p>
          <p>There is a record of introduction of tobacco to
          Nagasaki, Japan in 1605, which pretty much corresponds
          with some of the other dates. The Portuguese often would
          send a landing party into a country, and they did this in
          Taiwan, which of course was then a part of mainland
          China, somewhere in that neighborhood, the early 1600s.
          They conquered and ruled the city of Tainan, which is
          about halfway down the island and is a good size city,
          and finally a man who was to become a hero to the Chinese
          chased out these Portuguese privateers, or whatever they
          were, and they no longer ruled that area.</p>
          <pb n="Page 4" />
          <p>Of course you know they seized areas of land in India
          and elsewhere and one small piece of land the Indian
          government seized from the Portuguese just a few years
          ago.</p>
          <p>In 1505 they reached Ceylon, which now of course is
          Sri Lanka, and in 1508 Sumatra and the state of Malacca
          in Malaysia, which is across the Straits of Malacca. Then
          very near that time they reached an island called Maluku,
          which has later become known as the Spice Island, and it
          lies between in Indonesia between the Celebes and the
          island of New Guinea, and I guess as far as I know is
          still a source of spices. And in Zanzibar, of course, to
          this day it&#8217;s a source of cloves which are used in
          some of the cigarettes made in the Far East.</p>
          <p>Now how tobacco got into Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and
          those areas, it could have been the Portuguese making
          landings in the Gulf of Siam or something like that, but
          there is another possibility that the movement was from
          the other direction. In other words from Japan
          you&#8217;ll find the same types of leaf grown in that
          part of China which lies from Peking north up into
          Manchuria. You have these very similar types and
          there&#8217;s good reason to think it moved into Korea,
          China, and that there was a southern-ward movement of
          population which finally took the Chinese to the south of
          what is now China, to Yunnan Province and Kunming and
          Sichuan and all those areas off toward Tibet. What we now
          hear of as the hill tribes, the Red Nails and these
          others, who never were completely subjugated by any
          ruler, emperor, of China, they moved freely across the
          borders into Laos, across the Mekong River, for instance,
          and moved down into Burma and they apparently moved the
          length of Khmer Republic, Thailand, and down through the
          Malayan Peninsula into Singapore and then onto the
          islands. So I have that</p>
          <pb n="Page 5" />
          <p>hypothesis at least based on the similarity in
          practices, which I will mention a little bit later.</p>
          <p>In the Philippines, of course, Magellan got into an
          argument there shortly after he landed and got into a
          tribal war. He lost and so there was no more Magellan but
          his crew and his second-in-command sailed the ship the
          rest of the way around the world, and this of course
          occurred in 1521. In 1565 Spaniards from Mexico, mainly
          missionaries, went to the Philippines, found a very
          friendly reception on the island of Luzon, and of course
          converted the natives of Luzon to Christianity, and they
          did a much better job than anybody else has ever done in
          the whole Orient. In fact there isn&#8217;t any place
          else where you find very many Christians, the efforts
          elsewhere were failures, but there they did have their
          schools and their missions. They also introduced up into
          the northeast corner of the country, up into the valleys
          of the Isabella River and the Cagayan River, these areas
          where every spring there is an annual overflow of water
          that goes over the banks during the end of the wet
          monsoon, and the land on which they grow those famous
          Philippine cigar filler never receives any fertilizer
          except the fertilizer that&#8217;s brought down in the
          silt carried by these rivers, and it&#8217;s very justly
          famed. It&#8217;s a very interesting development.</p>
          <p>Another way in which, more or less accidentally
          probably, the tobacco trade was carried to different
          parts of the world was in connection with the slave
          trade. Perhaps 1471, I believe, was the earliest date of
          the settlement of the Portuguese on the Gold Coast, now
          Ghana, and the Ivory Coast about the same time, and of
          course the Portuguese were not the only ones engaged in
          the slave trade, anymore than the Spaniards were the only
          ones that were pirates. But Spain, Portugal, England,
          France,</p>
          <pb n="Page 6" />
          <p>Sweden together, and perhaps a few others, carried an
          estimated fifteen million Africans from the west coast
          into slavery, and at the same time they introduced the
          use of tobacco and the natives were terrifically
          delighted by this. They might not have enjoyed any other
          part of the operation but they did like the tobacco and
          it over the years has given rise to the kind of tobacco
          known in the trade as &#8220;black fat.&#8221; This
          isn&#8217;t the only one but each individual tribe of
          West Africa has their own preference as to the shape of
          the hand and the size of it, and this thing, and to me
          black fat is a fascinating material. You start with dark
          fire-cured and you spread Vaseline on the leaves and then
          you put it in a pack, into a case, until that fully
          permeates through the leaves and it turns pitch black and
          then it&#8217;s ready for sale. I think about three
          million pounds a year of Kentucky and Tennessee
          dark-fired and dark air-cured is sold to the West African
          countries and also in the Caribbean, those countries
          which have African backgrounds, you might say, like
          Jamaica and the Bahamas. The people that were brought
          there brought that habit with them so you have a
          roundtrip in that case.</p>
          <p>Now I mentioned this Japanese--. This incidentally is
          some of the coffee. There isn&#8217;t any tobacco in it
          yet. Japan grows fourteen varieties of
          &#8220;medium&#8221; tobacco, and it&#8217;s pretty much
          unlike any other tobacco in the world in that most of
          them have these heart-shaped leaves. Even those that
          don&#8217;t, the leaf is broader than it&#8217;s long and
          it&#8217;s not much longer than that, so that it&#8217;s
          sort of a very delicate heart shape and then it comes
          down, and a naked stem, naked petiole. These tobaccos are
          used--. You can pass that around. This is an Oriental
          water pipe. You can&#8217;t hurt it, you can do anything
          you want with it, but you do put a little water in the
          bottom and then stuff the tobacco in there. The tobacco
          smoke is drawn through the layer of water just like the
          Indian hookah would be,</p>
          <pb n="Page 7" />
          <p>but this is what the Chinese and Japanese call the--.
          This would be called the Chinese wet pipe and the Chinese
          dry pipe is something like the ones that they used to
          have in the old taverns in the Carolinas and Virginia
          where it&#8217;s made out of clay. In both these
          countries these so-called native tobaccos are used for
          hand-rolled cigarettes, for the dry pipes, for the wet
          pipes, and for chewing or miscellaneous use, anything
          except what you would call factory-made cigarettes. So
          there is actually in the system of classification, which
          is used in the farm agricultural, this is normally called
          light sun-cured, and the People&#8217;s Republic of China
          had a production in--perhaps 1973 figures--. No,
          it&#8217;s an average of &#8217;64 to &#8217;69. They
          produced four hundred and thirty-three million pounds of
          light sun-cured while Japan produced ninety-eight million
          five hundred and fifty thousand pounds of this same type
          of tobacco, so you see you had well over five hundred
          million pounds of this type grown.</p>
          <p>Now there&#8217;s another type that I&#8217;m going to
          discuss rather briefly, I hope, and this is what is known
          as kerf, k-e-r-f, and I thought, what a weird name that
          was, so I inquired and the word you can find in any
          English dictionary. It has Middle English origin. It
          means to cut, to slice, and the Dutch gave this name to
          the operation which was carried on by the inhabitants of
          Indonesia to produce a fine-cut tobacco, and instead of
          going through a whole lot of trouble to cure this tobacco
          as you would in a barn, air-cure barn, they merely roll
          it up in twenty-five, thirty leaves and they would pack
          them along the floor here. After three or four days they
          would be [18:34] yellow, and I&#8217;m sure some of you
          fellows know what happens if you accidentally leave a
          pack of leaves together for three or four days; you get
          the disappearance of the chlorophyll and very marked
          changes in the chemical composition. This tobacco then is
          cut very finely in a homemade</p>
          <pb n="Page 8" />
          <p>guillotine with a big sharp knife--it&#8217;s really
          just a hole in the wall and they just sit there and chop
          that off rapidly--taken and put on bamboo racks out in
          the bright sun in the tropics and in an hour&#8217;s time
          or so it&#8217;s cured into this yellow-green color. Then
          all you have to do is remoisten it and it&#8217;s ready
          to smoke in cigarettes or anything you want to do.</p>
          <p>I&#8217;m sure that this must have been carried from
          the southernmost provinces of China, and I base this on
          the fact that after the tobacco has been dried and
          remoistened, in Thailand at least they will take and wrap
          it up with a rough manila paper around it, tie a string
          around it, and spray the exposed ends with red vegetable
          dye and it&#8217;s sold as Red Chinese tobacco. From that
          they repackage it and make cigarettes using the leaf of
          the nipa palm or using a leaf of maize or whatever else
          they happen to--anything but white paper. They disdain
          the paper that we use on cigarettes because they say it
          doesn&#8217;t have enough taste to it. If you can give
          them good brown manila wrapping paper they&#8217;ll roll
          a cigarette in that, and if you ever try that yourself
          you&#8217;ll know you do get an added ingredient out of
          the manila wrapping paper, which they enjoy. But this is
          not a small consequence in the trade of these countries
          because Thailand produces about forty-five million pounds
          of this tobacco, Burma some seventy million pounds
          annually, and there are a great many others.</p>
          <p>Now in Indonesia you&#8217;ll find one or two more
          additions to the routine. The Indonesians have two types
          of native cigarettes. One is a Kretek, it&#8217;s called,
          and this contains little bits of clove buds in there for
          an aromatic effect and also the word indicates the
          crackling sound that you get when you smoke these because
          they explode, so you can&#8217;t make them in a machine,
          you have to do it by hand, and women who work at</p>
          <pb n="Page 9" />
          <p>that--. I was told by the former agricultural
          attach&#233; at Jakarta that the women work in teams of
          three, one maker and then two women that hand her the
          material, and she rolls these almost faster than the eye
          can see. This is a very much sought after product there.
          Now occasionally they&#8217;ll put in perfumes,
          they&#8217;ll put in, oh, I don&#8217;t know. One place I
          went I really think that they took me to an opium den but
          I haven&#8217;t any proof of it. But they--. [Laughs] A
          terribly sweet smell to the stuff they were smoking.
          [Laughs] It delighted me. [Laughs] I didn&#8217;t offer
          to try it out but it had all the earmarks of it. You
          would think you were back in the--seeing Sadie Thompson
          [22:35], or something like that, as you went through the
          place. It was really fantastic.</p>
          <p>Now a newer country that proved very fascinating to me
          in their ways in which they use tobacco was India. India
          produces about three hundred million pounds a year of
          flue-cured, which is produced in the southeast part of
          the country. It&#8217;s about a hundred miles north of
          Madras and two hundred miles south of Calcutta.
          It&#8217;s on the Indian Ocean. It&#8217;s in a very
          hot--oh, hot. You just couldn&#8217;t live. In the cool
          part of the year it was around ninety-five during the
          middle of the day and then in May and June it got up
          around a hundred and fifteen to a hundred and twenty.
          Very few Europeans or non-Indians could live there any
          length of time because they just couldn&#8217;t acclimate
          themselves. But this is where they grow the tobacco and
          if anyone seriously considers that Indian flue-cured is a
          competitor of U.S. flue-cured they can disillusion
          themselves. It is probably one of the poorest tobaccos.
          The lower part of the plant has some decent leaves but
          then it runs out of water and from then on it&#8217;s
          like that big and dark green. They use it as filler. The
          UK uses some, I guess they sell some to Russia, probably,
          but as compared to about three hundred million pounds
          they produce some six hundred</p>
          <pb n="Page 10" />
          <p>million pounds of various kinds of dark tobacco, and
          I&#8217;ll sketch through those very rapidly, not the
          kinds of tobacco but the products as much as anything,
          the beedies. I&#8217;m sure some of you have seen
          pictures of them or know what they are. They&#8217;re a
          little bit of conical cigarettes about that long, wrapped
          in the leaf of the Indian ebony, Diospyros, and tied with
          a red string and they come in packets of ten. Ten of them
          will sell for about one U.S. cent. They don&#8217;t have
          much tobacco, most of the time you&#8217;re smoking this
          ebony leaf, but the total consumption of beedies--and
          they&#8217;re all hand-made, incidentally. There&#8217;s
          no way you can make a beedi on a machine. The total
          consumption is about two hundred billion a year, and this
          is something: There are five to ten times as many beedies
          as there are conventional cigarettes sold.</p>
          <p>Then of course you have the tobacco which is used in
          the water pipes, the hookahs, and the water pipe as it
          was originally conceived I&#8217;m told was a--. They
          would take--. And you could do this, you could take a
          coconut and punch a couple of holes, two of the three
          eyes out, and pour the juice out and pour water in there
          and then put what they call a [25:50] which is a piece of
          metal pipe with a ceramic top. In this you would place
          your tobacco and a live coal and this tube would run down
          to the bottom of the water. Then in one of the other
          openings in the coconut you could have like a straw, a
          soft drink straw you might say, so that when you drew on
          the straw you bubbled the smoke through the water before
          it reached your lips. Now you perhaps have seen pictures
          of these hookahs which are very fancy, made out of silver
          or brass or something like that. They are fitted with a
          long rubber tube with a mouthpiece and smokers,
          especially in Persia and that part of the world,
          they&#8217;ll sit around in a big circle with the hookah
          in the center and then they&#8217;ll have this long pipe
          and purely for sanitary reasons</p>
          <pb n="Page 11" />
          <p>they put the mouthpiece between their hands like this,
          and [Sound effect] and of course then no one can say well
          I wet the mouthpiece with my lips. I&#8217;m sure this
          [26:59 is sanitary.] Now you can form your own
          conclusions about whether that&#8217;s a sanitary
          practice or not, but that is the way in which it&#8217;s
          done.</p>
          <p>The other types of native leaf, which I will mostly
          omit, are those called Natu and Lanka. Natu is a dark
          sun-cured tobacco, which in many respects resembles our
          dark-fired or dark air-cured tobacco. It&#8217;s allowed
          to get very ripe and then when they harvest the plants
          they cut them off in sections with a sharp knife so that
          each leaf has a section of stalk, and you see in that way
          if you reverse that you have a little hook there and you
          hang that over a heavy cord and tie the cord either to
          one side of the house or one side of the barn or whatever
          means you happen to have, a framework, and you leave that
          out in the hot sun for two to four months maybe, or even
          a shorter time. Finally it is put in piles to ferment.
          Sometimes instead of just piling it on top of the ground
          they will dig a pit or two pits and they will put the
          stuff in one pit and pack it in rather moistly, throw in
          some salt water, and this causes it to heat up and then
          they&#8217;ll pile it over in the other pile for awhile
          and then bring it back. When they get through they have
          something which is really villainous and [Laughs] Lanka
          is just about the same way. That&#8217;s grown on islands
          in the river that are subject to annual overflow and that
          adds a high salt content so that a very little of this
          will go a long way in the whole economy, but then
          there&#8217;s a lot of Indians too, between four hundred
          and five hundred million of them.</p>
          <p>Now, as far as the production of flue-cured in the Far
          East is concerned I have had the help of Mr. J.W.
          Drummond of the home office in the BAT in London and also
          Mr. John Campbell of the Imperial Group Ltd. at Wilson,
          and among the things which John</p>
          <pb n="Page 12" />
          <p>Campbell loaned me was a little book called The
          African Pastique. It&#8217;s a description of
          Imperial&#8217;s activities in Malawi, and they
          practically run that country. This was the point where
          they first went there rather than--. It was Nyasaland
          then, part of the Rhodesian Federation, about 1900. In
          the back of the book are some of the comments of the
          readers, and this is one, the daughter of a member of
          Imperial Tobacco Co. staff: &#8220;What a dreary little
          book.&#8221; So that any quotations [Laughs] that you
          hear from that, please don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m the
          only one that&#8217;s dreary. The fellow that wrote the
          book was.</p>
          <p>In India flue-cured production started in 1927, where
          I mentioned in the state Andhra Pradesh there, north of
          Madras. Now they have moved across the main ridge into
          the west side in the State of Mysore with headquarters in
          Bangalore, and this is a much better soil, it produces
          much better tobacco, and they have water for irrigation
          so they are doing very well.</p>
          <p>In Indonesia flue-cured production was started in 1926
          and I was there in 1963 in February and you could hardly
          get anyone in the embassy to go out on the streets at
          that time because Sukarno was getting increasingly
          fractious, you might say, and very shortly after that he
          incited riots in which the British embassy and the U.S.
          embassy were stoned and the British compound and the U.S.
          compound was attacked. Late in December of that year he
          seized all the companies including the tobacco industry.
          Well in February I was able to make a trip down through
          the mid portion of Java so I saw a lot of their
          production and it was a very interesting trip, you can be
          sure, although it was not very easy.</p>
          <p>Malaya is another place where commercial flue-cured
          production has started in about 1958 up in the
          northeastern corner of the country, a place called
          [32:01], rather</p>
          <pb n="Page 13" />
          <p>inaccessible. Again the BAT was a prime mover.
          Rothmans had also moved in that territory and was
          producing it. From that start--I saw it of course in
          &#8217;63 and they probably were growing four or five
          hundred pounds--I think the latest figures show that they
          grow seventeen million pounds in Malaysia. It was a
          classic example of the method of operation. To me this
          was the most amazing thing. They picked three or four men
          out of the organization who were acquainted with tobacco
          growing in the tropics, maybe they&#8217;d been in India,
          Indonesia, or any one of a dozen countries, they sent
          them into this area which had been picked out for reasons
          of rainfall and soil, and they selected the native
          Malayan farmers. They grew the plants for them, they
          showed them how to put them in the soil, they told them
          how many teaspoons full of fertilizer to put around each
          hill, and then when the bugs got bad they gave them the
          stuff to put on for the bugs. They told them when to, as
          they say, reap the leaves. They brought back the green
          leaves for which the farmer was paid and then they did
          the curing themselves in brick barns using mostly old
          died-out rubber trees as a source of fuel. You can burn a
          rubber tree if it gets old enough but in the meantime
          it&#8217;s pretty aromatic, but they of course using
          flues it wouldn&#8217;t affect it. Even today they are
          not able to produce, nor will they be able to produce,
          their requirements. They are a good import market for our
          tobacco. In proportion to the size of the country Malaya
          has always been a large user of U.S. flue-cured.</p>
          <p>Japan started early in this century, I think entirely
          on their own, both flue-cured and burley, and of course
          they had grown native tobacco for a long time. Now they
          have begun to cut back and the labor shortages and so
          on--. You heard Mr. Andrews say that in 1974 they were
          our leading customer for flue-cured. This is the first
          year that they</p>
          <pb n="Page 14" />
          <p>passed West Germany and the United Kingdom, and I
          think they rather surprised themselves. But they were
          growing somewhere in the neighborhood of two hundred
          million pounds and are now importing at least half that
          much of U.S. flue-cured.</p>
          <p>The Philippines tried to grow flue-cured with rather
          poor success. I never saw worse tobacco in my life. If it
          was any bigger than that it was amazing, a coincidence,
          and only the sand leaves were any good. I think we have a
          classic example of too much control, let&#8217;s say.
          This year there are only three provinces in which
          they&#8217;re allowed to grow flue-cured, Ilocos Norte,
          Ilocos Sur, and La Union, the three provinces in the
          northwest corner of the country. For years they bought
          the Philippine--. They formed a corporation, the
          Philippine-Virginia Tobacco Co., which paid the farmer in
          scrip but they never paid him any cash for his crop so he
          was left holding this useless piece of paper. Finally
          they went bankrupt and the government said well they were
          a very sinful group of men. We&#8217;ll replace them with
          another corporation which had a different combination of
          letters. But if the farmer wanted money for his crop he
          sold it to what he called the Chinese capitalists, an
          independent buyer, who would pay him perhaps fifty
          percent as much as the government said they were paying
          him but at least he&#8217;d get the money or he&#8217;d
          get credit at the store. So the Philippines are not an
          important competitor in any way.</p>
          <p>Now Thailand is a very interesting one, and then I
          think I&#8217;ll perhaps leave them where they are, so to
          speak. Thailand started about forty years ago up in the
          area about three hundred miles north of Bangkok. Has
          anyone here been to Chiang Mai? If you were with
          Universal Leaf or any of the big companies that buy
          tobacco you might--. I think Universal has--. I know they
          have a packing plant up there and so does</p>
          <pb n="Page 15" />
          <p>Transcontinental. They were taught the techniques by
          the British, the BAT, on contract and then they took it
          over themselves, and they grow a very beautiful tobacco.
          Every single leaf of it would bear an &#8220;L&#8221;
          letter on the grading. It&#8217;s pure yellow, just as
          pure as can be. It has one half of one percent alkaloids,
          nicotine. That&#8217;s all you can get out of it. I saw
          Coker 139 growing there, beautiful looking, but when it
          was cured up because of the combination of shortage of
          water and the heavy clay soil and one thing and another,
          it was very uncommon that they got anything but this very
          glossy, super thin, bright yellow leaf almost devoid of
          alkaloids. You could smoke it until you&#8217;re blue in
          the face and you wouldn&#8217;t even know that you were
          smoking it as far as getting any nicotine out of it. Now
          this is a wonderful filler tobacco to counteract say some
          of the Indian tobacco or something like that. It goes
          into the West German trade. Where else it goes I
          don&#8217;t know. But within the last few years they have
          raised their production to I think sixty-eight million.
          At the same time in 1972 they bought twenty-five point
          four million pounds of U.S. flue-cured. They were the
          second only to Japan. Japan in that year bought--in
          &#8217;73, rather--bought fifty-five million. Now
          they&#8217;ve jumped to about a hundred million.</p>
          <p>The third buyer in terms of imports is Taiwan and they
          in turn--. Now all these countries are monopoly
          countries, so called. You can&#8217;t even--.
          You&#8217;re told how many plants you can grow--you
          can&#8217;t do anything that they don&#8217;t tell you
          that you can do--and the amount of fertilizer and this
          sort of thing, and the variety of seed, and every
          single--. And if they don&#8217;t want you in the
          organization they just tell you so. You haven&#8217;t any
          future. But Taiwan recognizes again, just as Japan does,
          that the U.S. flue-cured is the basis for quality in
          their cigarette, so where they produce--. Taiwan produces
          about</p>
          <pb n="Page 16" />
          <p>thirty-five million pounds and they import about
          sixteen and a half million pounds, so that&#8217;s about
          a two to one ratio.</p>
          <p>South Vietnam did import about eleven and a half
          million pounds, Malaysia about six point four million
          pounds. Well if you realize that Malaysia hasn&#8217;t
          got very many people over there either, and that&#8217;s
          a pretty high rate of consumption. It nearly represents
          the maximum amount that they can afford to buy and put in
          there. The Philippines--again this is a very complicated
          situation--in order to import U.S. flue-cured, only this,
          applies [to the] so-called Laurel-Langley Act, which I
          think is about due to expire. The cigarette manufacture
          over there had to export, or there had to be exported,
          four pounds of Philippine flue-cured for every pound of
          U.S. flue-cured that is brought in to use in cigarettes,
          and this is supposed to help their own industry, and yet
          they imported about five million pounds a year, so they
          had to sell in the world market twenty million pounds of
          flue-cured, and they would sell it for about three cents
          a pound or give it away if you can carry it away off the
          docks and put it in your ship and cart it away, but
          nevertheless they did sell it.</p>
          <p>Now in the manufactured products, and [I have] one
          paragraph on that, our best market in the world for
          manufactured cigarettes is Hong Kong. It exceeds any
          other place. In 1973 they bought four point eight billion
          cigarettes. Well they don&#8217;t have much any place--.
          They can&#8217;t grow tobacco, of course, on the little
          bit of land there, and they apparently would rather have
          our cigarettes in the form of finished product than they
          would to manufacture it themselves. Also Hong Kong bought
          over a million cigars and Japan bought forty-four and a
          half million cigars in 1973. Hong Kong bought forty-eight
          thousand pounds of packaged smoking tobacco and a
          thousand pounds of chewing</p>
          <pb n="Page 17" />
          <p>tobacco and snuff, so they&#8217;re very
          indiscriminant [Laughs] in what they buy but they do buy
          it in large amounts.</p>
          <p>I have certainly enjoyed being here. It&#8217;s a
          pleasure. I might say in passing that I have been now in
          twenty-five countries in Asia and Africa and spent one
          entire year in Taiwan working with the Taiwan tobacco and
          wine monopoly bureau. Their wine is horrible. [Laughter]
          The beer is--it depends on the time of year. Sometimes
          you get good beer, but you can&#8217;t buy any other kind
          of beer. The same way if you&#8217;re--. Unless you want
          to pay exorbitant prices you can&#8217;t buy any other
          kind of cigarettes except the kind that they sell. So,
          for heaven&#8217;s sakes, if you&#8217;re going to move
          someplace to live don&#8217;t move to a place where the
          cigarettes are made by a monopoly corporation because if
          you do you&#8217;ll just ask for trouble. I will leave
          with Dr. Ellen a list of the data which was kindly
          supplied to me by the BAT Tobacco Co. as to the dates in
          which they entered the different countries, but
          that&#8217;s worse than this book that the little girl
          said was so dreary. Thank you again. [Applause]</p>
        </sp>
        <p>[From this point to the end not transcribed]</p>
        <p>END OF RECORDING</p>
        <p></p>
        <p>Transcriber: Deborah Mitchum</p>
        <p>Date: October 20, 2010</p>
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