[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

Frances Mallison, Interviewee
Alston Cobourn, Interviewer
August 8, 2025
Home of Frances Mallison, Winterville, NC

AC: (0:01)
Hello, Hello, can you say something?

FM: (0:08)
Hello, how are you today?

AC: (0:11)
One more time.

FM: (0:13)
Hello, how are you today?

AC: (0:14)
All right, that's,

FM: (0:17)
That sound good?

AC: (0:18)
Yes, I think our levels are, I think our levels are good.

FM: (0:22)
Okay.

AC: (0:22)
Okay, all right. Hello, my name is Alston Cobourn, and I'm the university archivist at East Carolina University, and today I am here at the home of Frances Mallison. It is August 8, 2025 and we're going to be doing an oral history interview today. So first, would you please tell us your full name, when, and where you were born?

FM: (0:47)
Okay. Frances Johnson Harvey Mallison. I was born in Greenville, North Carolina, April 28, 1945.

AC: (1:00)
Okay. And so, what did your family do for a living?

FM: (1:05)
My mother was a teacher once my sister and I got in school, and she did that for a long time. My father, his father, owned Harvey Oil Company when he was younger, but then that was sold when my grandfather died, and daddy did a few jobs before he became the credit manager at Pitt Memorial Hospital, which he did until the mid 70s, when he retired. But along the way, he became the Pitt County coroner. Before, you had to be a physician,

AC: (1:47)
Awesome.

FM: (1:48)
To do that. And he was very good with that job. And even after the state said you needed to be a physician, I think there were two or three in the state that the head person allowed to continue because I guess they liked the way they did the job. And so after that, daddy was all, he always knew the people at the courthouse and the lawyers and people like that. So his sort of later retirement job was the information officer at the courthouse. They had not expanded, and people would bother the people in the offices about, where is this, that and the other.

AC: (2:40)
I see.

FM: (2:40)
And so they hired daddy to sit out there in the hall at a desk and tell people where things were and kind of direct traffic. And he did that for several years, even after he had moved to Cypress Glen.

AC: (2:54)
Okay.

FM: (2:56)
So he was a very community minded person.

AC: (3:00)
What was your father's name?

FM: (3:02)
Edward Withers Harvey Jr. He was,

AC: (3:05)
And your mother's name?

FM: (3:07)
Emily Johnson Harvey.

AC: (3:09)
Okay.

FM: (3:11)
He was from Greenville originally, and my mother came here to East Carolina and met him. She was from near Pender and Duplin County.

AC: (3:22)
Okay.

FM: (3:22)
In that area.

AC: (3:24)
Okay. Do you have siblings?

FM: (3:26)
I have a sister, three years younger.

AC: (3:29)
Okay. Does she live in this area too?

FM: (3:32)
She lives in Winston Salem now,

AC: (3:33)
Okay.

FM: (3:34)
But she did get her degree from ECU.

AC: (3:38)
Oh, okay. What's her name?

FM: (3:39)
Jean Harvey Sawyer and her husband, Linwood, also, she met at ECU.

AC: (3:46)
Okay, great. So after you graduated from high school here in Greenville, right, did you go to J. H. Rose?

FM: (3:55)
Yes.

AC: (3:56)
Yes. What did you, what did you do next?

FM: (4:00)
Well, first of all, let me say that going to Wahl-Coates Elementary School,

AC: (4:05)
Oh that's right. Thank you.

FM: (4:06)
When it was in the Messick building,

AC: (4:09)
Yes.

FM: (4:12)
Was an education in itself, because we were walked over to any musical theater, dance, anything that was happening a block away on the campus.

AC: (4:27)
Yeah.

FM: (4:28)
We got that kind of education, and our teachers were, a lot of those teachers were faculty members,

AC: (4:36)
Yeah.

FM: (4:37)
At ECU, so we didn't really, my husband, Tom and I both went to the same school,

AC: (4:43)
Right.

FM: (4:43)
But he was five years older, so we didn't know each other then, but we both had the same background in ECU.

AC: (4:51)
Yeah, yeah.

FM: (4:52)
You know, and we thought everybody in the world did, but they didn't. So, what was the question?

AC: (4:59)
Well, well,

FM: (4:59)
What did I do,

AC: (5:00)
Yeah, yeah.

FM: (5:00)
After high school.

AC: (5:01)
But I guess is there anything else about Whal-Coates, because I'm glad you mentioned that after, I had forgotten

FM: (5:01)
Right.

AC: (5:01)
That you went to school there. Yeah, and so,

FM: (5:13)
Well, McGinnis auditorium was our school auditorium.

AC: (5:15)
Yeah, okay, okay.

FM: (5:17)
And so,

AC: (5:17)
Okay,

FM: (5:17)
We were used to what some people call the extracurricular,

AC: (5:23)
Right.

FM: (5:23)
Things.

AC: (5:23)
Right, right, right, right. Well that's wonderful.

FM: (5:25)
Yes, and, you know, the the football stadium was like, on campus then.

AC: (5:32)
Yes.

FM: (5:33)
And so there were just so many things that that school did, and Rose high school too, that were involved with the university.

AC: (5:42)
Right.

FM: (5:42)
You know, when there was a new chancellor, or what, president? Whatever it was called. You know, we walked to the,

AC: (5:48)
Yeah.

FM: (5:48)
To the event.

AC: (5:50)
How big, like, how big was the student body at Whal-Coates, I guess, because I'm thinking, right, since it was a teaching school.

FM: (6:04)
Okay.

AC: (5:58)
I wonder if it was a little bit smaller,

FM: (6:00)
Well,

AC: (6:00)
Than a regular elementary.

FM: (6:01)
It was grades one through six, and there were,

AC: (6:04)
Okay.

FM: (6:05)
Just two sections. So that would be two fifth grades, two sixth grades.

AC: (6:09)
Yes. Okay.

FM: (6:09)
So,

AC: (6:10)
Okay.

FM: (6:10)
You know,

AC: (6:10)
Okay.

FM: (6:11)
That would tell you somewhat,

AC: (6:12)
Yeah.

FM: (6:12)
The size.

AC: (6:13)
Okay, great. Thank you. So then, so then, after you graduated from high school here in Greenville, what did you do next?

FM: (6:27)
I worked the summer after high school at the brand new Holiday Inn in Greenville. I worked at the restaurant as a waitress, mainly because I chose to go to a private college, and my parents said, you need to make your own spending money, because, you know, this might not have been in their spending plan. So I worked there that summer, and then after I went off to college. Later on, we'll talk about my future husband started working at the Holiday Inn at the front desk.

AC: (7:09)
Okay.

FM: (7:10)
So he met my family and I didn't know him.

AC: (7:14)
I see. Okay, okay.

FM: (7:16)
So our, during high school at First Presbyterian Church, our minister and our director of Christian education had taken groups for three different summers to the Presbyterian related colleges, Davidson, Hampton, Sidney, Queens, you know, all the and just the agencies around in several states, and so Mary Baldwin College was one that we visited, and that was just it for me.

AC: (7:16)
Okay, okay, so that's how you found it.

FM: (7:16)
That's how I found Mary Baldwin.

AC: (7:16)
Okay. What did you study in college?

FM: (7:26)
Well, I studied, at Mary Baldwin, you couldn't major in teacher education. It was a liberal arts college.

AC: (8:03)
Right.

FM: (8:04)
But they had some courses, and you could just major in psychology, or if you were going to teach math, I'm sure you could major in math

AC: (8:13)
Right.

FM: (8:13)
Or whatever, but math was not what I wanted to take at Mary Baldwin. It was not my strong point, and that's why I came to ECU in the summer,

AC: (8:25)
Okay.

FM: (8:26)
After my sophomore year, because I thought I could concentrate and get that one credit out of the way and transfer it.

AC: (8:36)
Gotcha.

FM: (8:37)
And I did that, and I took probably another class too. I can't remember now, but in the middle of the four years, I realized that if I went to summer school another summer, I could graduate a semester early.

AC: (8:58)
Right.

FM: (8:58)
So I went two summers,

AC: (8:58)
Okay.

FM: (8:59)
To ECU,

AC: (9:00)
Okay.

FM: (9:02)
Just as a student, I wasn't really involved in,

AC: (9:05)
Summer's a different,

FM: (9:06)
Extracurricula,

AC: (9:07)
Yeah.

FM: (9:08)
Things at that time.

AC: (9:09)
Yeah. So there, right, there probably isn't. But, you know, we usually ask people like, is there anything on campus that you remember from when you were a student about like people visiting or, you know, like events,

FM: (9:21)
Right.

AC: (9:22)
You went to, that kind of thing.

FM: (9:24)
Well,

AC: (9:24)
But if it was summer then maybe not.

FM: (9:26)
I was very familiar with ECU

AC: (9:28)
Yes.

FM: (9:28)
To begin with, and so I was really just going to class,

AC: (9:33)
Yeah.

FM: (9:34)
I suppose,

AC: (9:34)
Yep.

FM: (9:35)
At that time.

AC: (9:35)
Yeah.

FM: (9:35)
Now, my sister is three years younger, so she had started at ECU. She had a full scholarship when I was, maybe some of the time, when I was, you know, there just in the summer,

AC: (9:50)
Right, okay. And so you, so then you met your husband in summer, when you were here in summer school?

FM: (9:59)
Yes, not at summer, not at school.

AC: (10:02)
Right, right, but during that time.

FM: (10:03)
Right.

AC: (10:04)
Yeah.

FM: (10:05)
The summer I was a waitress,

AC: (10:07)
Yes.

FM: (10:08)
At the Holiday Inn,

AC: (10:09)
Yes.

FM: (10:09)
Was the first summer that restaurant was there, and the hotel, and they were just hiring staff and so forth and knew I was temporary, but they needed a temporary hostess. And my mother said, well, I'm a teacher, I can go out there and be a hostess, you know, for the summer. And so she did. And then in the fall, believe it or not, it was the only, it was the best restaurant to eat in Greenville,

AC: (10:39)
Okay.

FM: (10:40)
For football games. And so she would help out, you know, during the fall,

AC: (10:46)
Right.

FM: (10:46)
When there was a football game, and she, and my daddy, and my sister met Tom there,

AC: (10:55)
Right.

FM: (10:55)
And they were, they became absolutely great friends. Tom was very much into politics, and mother was very outspoken, and they just hit it off as wonderful friends.

AC: (11:14)
Okay.

FM: (11:16)
So I did not meet Tom until after my sophomore year.

AC: (11:22)
Right.

FM: (11:24)
And actually, my roommate at Mary Baldwin was going to one session of summer school and living with us that summer. And Tom was, because he worked at the desk at the Holiday Inn, he knew all the people that came in for the summer theater, which was every summer then.

AC: (11:43)
Right, yes.

FM: (11:44)
And so he got invited to some of their cast parties and so forth. So he would take, he took Lucia, my roommate, to a cast party. He called one night, and I was the only one there, and so that was our first date.

AC: (12:02)
Okay, okay.

FM: (12:04)
And that was in August of '65.

AC: (12:09)
Okay. And so was he still in school at all then, or he, and working at the Holiday Inn,

FM: (12:15)
Yes he,

AC: (12:15)
Or had he finished?

FM: (12:16)
We might not have met if we didn't both need a job.

AC: (12:19)
Yes, right, right, right.

FM: (12:22)
He took the long road

AC: (12:25)
Okay.

FM: (12:25)
To get his education, because he pretty much worked several jobs

AC: (12:29)
Right, right.

FM: (12:30)
Full time. In college, he was in he was SGA president. He was into politics. He did things like ride the Lady Bird train when Johnson was running, yes, and he, and it was on the quarter system, and he would, you know, take off a quarter and maybe not go to college that quarter,

AC: (12:56)
Right.

FM: (12:56)
To do, and he was, he went to the, Johnson's inauguration,

AC: (13:01)
Okay.

FM: (13:02)
Because of contacts with some of the Democratic people in Greenville. He was a very PR, outspoken kind of person, and that's one reason he and my mother got along, because they were so outspoken. They, you know, talked what they felt, and didn't get mad at each other.

AC: (13:25)
Right, right.

FM: (13:26)
So that's how, that's how I met him.

AC: (13:30)
Okay.

FM: (13:31)
And then I was going back to college for my junior year, he still had maybe a year or so left because he was

AC: (13:40)
Right.

FM: (13:40)
Going the long route, but he came to Staunton quite a few times, and I didn't have a car, so if I came home, I had to ride the bus.

FM: (13:50)
Right, right, because yes, and,

FM: (13:50)
Right.

AC: (13:50)
Because Mary Baldwin is in Staunton, Virginia,

FM: (13:50)
Yes.

AC: (13:51)
Yes, so that's a place.

FM: (13:55)
And Mary Baldwin at the time, you had to be a senior to have a car and have a parking place.

AC: (14:00)
Right, okay.

FM: (14:01)
So it really wasn't different that I didn't have a car,

AC: (14:05)
Yes, right, right.

FM: (14:07)
So that's when we started dating,

AC: (14:11)
Okay, and I don't think we actually have said your husband's name yet.

FM: (14:16)
His name was Clyde Thomas Mallison, Jr.

AC: (14:18)
Yes.

FM: (14:20)
Tom, or, he might have been called Tommy when he was younger.

AC: (14:23)
Okay, but yes, then as an adult, when,

FM: (14:25)
Yes.

AC: (14:25)
He went by Tom.

FM: (14:26)
Right.

AC: (14:27)
Okay, and so then, so that, okay, so that's how you all met and you were dating. And so then, when you graduated from college at Mary Baldwin,

FM: (14:38)
Yes.

AC: (14:38)
What, what did you do next?

FM: (14:40)
Okay, I graduated after the first semester of my senior year. I came home, lived at home with my sister in one bedroom because of some other things that were happening. And we got married in June,

AC: (14:40)
Okay.

FM: (14:41)
Of that year and he worked for DuPont after his graduation,

AC: (15:03)
Okay.

FM: (15:03)
In Kinston, and he had been since, maybe for over a year, he had been working, and they wanted this was time, the time when businesses were transferring a lot of people around, and they wanted him to move to Martinsville, Virginia.

AC: (15:24)
Okay, to the DuPont plant.

FM: (15:26)
And he said, well, could I please wait a few months, I'm getting married in June, and it would be nice to,

AC: (15:33)
Yes.

FM: (15:33)
Make the transition then. So we moved to Martinsville in the summer of '67 and had an apartment, and I got a job teaching. I had been teaching in Pitt County for the that spring semester.

AC: (15:52)
I see, okay.

FM: (15:54)
Special education because of a teacher's pregnancy.

AC: (15:58)
Okay, okay.

FM: (15:58)
Which I was not qualified to do, but that they knew,

AC: (16:03)
You figured it out.

FM: (16:05)
Yeah. So anyway, that fall, I taught fifth grade,

AC: (16:12)
Okay,

FM: (16:13)
In Fieldale Elementary. And the next year I was, oh, I had 40 students.

AC: (16:22)
Okay,

FM: (16:22)
In fifth grade, which was interesting,

AC: (16:24)
Okay, okay.

FM: (16:26)
It was the first year of that county being integrated, which was,

AC: (16:31)
That was probably,

FM: (16:31)
Very calm, very calm,

AC: (16:31)
A different experience for everyone.

FM: (16:31)
Well,

AC: (16:31)
You know, like, because it was just a change for everyone.

FM: (16:37)
There was some change,

AC: (16:39)
[Unintelligible]

FM: (16:40)
But having 40 children in one classroom,

AC: (16:43)
Yeah.

FM: (16:43)
Was also different.

AC: (16:44)
Yeah.

FM: (16:45)
I was invited for the next year to go to a different school, that really they were integrating a formerly Black school. So they were trying to pick teachers and make it, it was 10 miles outside of Martinsville. They were trying to make it appealing to, to be integrated in,

AC: (17:10)
Yeah.

FM: (17:10)
Teachers to go there. So I went there and taught fifth grade with 25 students.

AC: (17:16)
Okay.

FM: (17:17)
Which was nice.

AC: (17:18)
Yeah.

FM: (17:19)
In the meantime, I was taking courses in library science. My librarian at my first school and her husband were traveling to Greensboro to get their library degree, and they would come back and teach in the community college,

AC: (17:37)
Okay.

FM: (17:38)
For, for some classes. So I took some classes. And actually, my third year, I was hired as a librarian at Bassett Elementary School.

AC: (17:49)
Okay.

FM: (17:51)
You know, it was a different time. You didn't have to have all the degrees when

AC: (17:54)
Yeah.

FM: (17:54)
People needed you.

AC: (17:55)
Well, and so where were you taking your, so you were taking, where were you taking your library classes?

FM: (18:00)
Well, I would, one summer, I came home and stayed with my parents,

AC: (18:02)
Okay.

FM: (18:05)
And got a special course aimed at people like me,

AC: (18:12)
Right.

FM: (18:12)
That there were three classes they were offering for a minimum weeks, concentrated,

AC: (18:12)
I see, yes.

FM: (18:12)
Thing, so I got,

AC: (18:16)
Yeah, I see, okay.

FM: (18:18)
I said, I had some, anyway, so after a few years, I was expecting our son, and so I stayed home, and we eventually, he was transferred back to the Kinston plant.

AC: (18:42)
Okay.

FM: (18:44)
And then I had my daughter three years later, and we, I just stayed home until she went to kindergarten, and then had been interested in real estate. I had gotten my real estate license and I sold real estate for two years. Or I say, I sold, I tried to sell. It was the years that the interest rates went into the roof.

AC: (19:16)
I see.

FM: (19:17)
I liked it, but I decided that maybe I should contribute a little bit more to my children's future education. So then I applied for library jobs, and there were many, many, too many librarians around here.

AC: (19:33)
Okay.

FM: (19:34)
So I taught at Welcome Middle School, math and science for two years, and then was hired for A.G. Cox librarian, middle school,

AC: (19:45)
Okay.

FM: (19:46)
And stayed there for 15 years.

AC: (19:50)
Well great.

FM: (19:50)
And then I retired.

AC: (19:52)
And that's where you retired from.

FM: (19:53)
Right.

AC: (19:53)
Okay. What was, what was Tom's degree from ECU?

FM: (19:58)
History and political science.

AC: (20:01)
History and political science, okay.

FM: (20:01)
And therefore he was a generalist at DuPont. He was not a scientist.

AC: (20:07)
Yeah, I was wondering if you, yeah, if you could,

FM: (20:09)
Right.

AC: (20:09)
Say what he did there.

FM: (20:10)
He started out being a supervisor of people, you know, on the, doing the machines.

AC: (20:19)
Yes, yes.

FM: (20:20)
Later in his career, he had really wonderful plant managers that saw his talents were different much more in the PR area, and so his later jobs had to do with community relations in Kinston, especially all the fundraising people that would come and want money.

AC: (20:48)
Yeah.

FM: (20:49)
You know, along the way, he was in charge of the communications. They had TVs all over the plant and right had a newspaper.

AC: (20:50)
Okay.

FM: (20:52)
He had people that, that did those things. So it was that time when businesses were doing organizational effectiveness,

AC: (21:10)
Yeah.

FM: (21:11)
And he will, he was the point person for the plant to go to conferences and to learn how to implement all these things.

AC: (21:20)
I see. Okay, great. Thank you.

FM: (21:23)
So he was very lucky to, to get into the area that just was his, it just suited him.

AC: (21:30)
Yeah well, it sounds like you managed to find, you know, a lot of different things that suited you.

FM: (21:38)
Right.

AC: (21:39)
You know, as you needed to as your, as different circumstances changed in your life,

FM: (21:44)
Right.

AC: (21:44)
And stuff, so that's good. Yeah. Did you really enjoy being a librarian?

FM: (21:48)
I did.

AC: (21:49)
Yeah.

FM: (21:50)
And middle schoolers are interesting and, but I think the two years I taught middle school before becoming a librarian

AC: (22:03)
Yeah.

FM: (22:04)
In a middle school, even though it was a different school, was helpful.

AC: (22:09)
Yeah.

FM: (22:10)
Knowing the curriculum better and, and so forth.

AC: (22:14)
Yeah. So then, yeah. Is there anything else about, so you, so your master's degree in library science,

FM: (22:26)
Yes.

AC: (22:26)
Did come from East Carolina,

FM: (22:27)
Yes,

AC: (22:28)
Yes, right.

FM: (22:28)
And that was when I was staying at home.

AC: (22:30)
Yeah.

FM: (22:30)
With, with my younger kids.

AC: (22:32)
Okay, okay.

FM: (22:33)
My mother was and father, but, you know, mostly my mother, you know, in the summer, she said, look, I'll keep them, you know, bring their clothes, they can spend the night, you know, because I was taking as many courses I could,

AC: (22:38)
Yeah.

FM: (22:39)
In the summer,

AC: (22:48)
Right.

FM: (22:48)
And then during the winter, Tom he worked shifts for the, a number of years.

AC: (22:55)
Okay.

FM: (22:56)
And so he said, you know, look, I'll, you know, I'll keep them, whatever you need to do, and we'll figure it out.

AC: (23:02)
Yeah.

FM: (23:03)
So, so I wasn't a typical day student,

AC: (23:06)
Right, right, right. Okay. So then, how have you been involved with East Carolina outside of being a student? Because I know you've been, I know that you're still active with the university,

FM: (23:21)
Right.

AC: (23:21)
In a lot of ways.

FM: (23:24)
Well, number one, a friend who who worked at ECU in a staff position, Cynthia Adams, she got me on the Friends of Joyner Library.

AC: (23:39)
Okay.

FM: (23:39)
She was the staff person there for one of her many jobs. So I became friend, on the Friends of Joyner Library, and I think I have stayed probably longer than than any person. But because Tom was interested in so much of what had gone on there, we went to performing arts. He was on lots of different councils and, you know, Friends groups over there because, you know, like the business college, you know, they want money from DuPont,

AC: (24:15)
Right.

FM: (24:16)
And he's the person to talk to, and,

AC: (24:17)
Yeah.

FM: (24:18)
And all that kind of thing. But we were both involved with theater, and dance, and performances, and things like that, and I later became, after I retired, I rejoined the Greenville Service League, which my mother and my grandmother were members of. But I also got involved with Women for Women, which was an organization,

AC: (24:53)
Right.

FM: (24:55)
During the time in my early retirement, and so I went to a lot of the events, whether it was my events or Tom's events. We kind of supported each other and the different things that we were involved with, mostly at ECU.

AC: (25:15)
Yeah, yeah, the, you've been involved with the Teaching Resources Center, some in Joyner Library, right? Am I,

FM: (25:27)
Yes, I've made some contributions.

AC: (25:29)
Yeah.

FM: (25:29)
And my reasoning was that, as a librarian or media coordinator, whatever you want to call it, one of our main emphases, emphasis was to get teachers into the library.

AC: (25:49)
Yeah.

FM: (25:50)
And that's not always easy.

AC: (25:53)
Right.

FM: (25:53)
Some, some, it's very natural, but there's some that don't think you need to to be involved personally, or for your students to be whatever you're teaching and and so anything that could enhance that kind of education I'm interested in.

AC: (26:14)
Yeah.

FM: (26:16)
Maybe that's why I was interested in the Teaching Resources Center.

AC: (26:20)
Yeah, that definitely fits with the mission,

FM: (26:22)
Yeah.

AC: (26:22)
Of it, yeah. Have you? Were you on the Board of Visitors?

FM: (26:27)
No, Tom was.

AC: (26:28)
Tom was, okay.

FM: (26:28)
Tom was on the Board of Visitors.

AC: (26:30)
Okay, okay, all right, yes. And then isn't, is it the Library Advancement Group?

FM: (26:30)
Yes, it,

AC: (26:30)
Because there's the Friends of the Library, but there's also a Library Advancement Group.

FM: (26:30)
There was a, yes, there was an Advancement.

AC: (26:40)
And I think you, were you on that?

FM: (26:46)
Well, I wasn't one of the first ones.

AC: (26:49)
Right.

FM: (26:49)
The group was formed, and the main thing they did at the beginning was the Janice Faulkner gallery.

AC: (26:55)
Right.

FM: (26:56)
Raised the big money,

AC: (26:57)
Yeah.

FM: (26:57)
For that.

AC: (26:58)
Right.

FM: (26:59)
And so, and later, after a few years, I was on that board.

AC: (27:09)
I was thinking,

FM: (27:10)
Yes.

AC: (27:11)
That I remembered that.

FM: (27:12)
And I always seemed to get to be president of almost anything I joined.

AC: (27:16)
It's because you're willing to do it.

FM: (27:18)
Which I'm willing, and you know, sometimes, well, go back to when I was, you know, before high school, my mother was our youth advisor at church, and we went to some, something, maybe in Goldsboro or Wilson or something, and I got up in front of the group and did something, I don't have any idea what it was, and I sat down, and she was one of our, you know, drivers, and she looked at me and she said, I didn't know you could do that, but I've never felt uncomfortable,

AC: (27:54)
Right.

FM: (27:55)
Standing in front of a group as long as I know what I'm talking about.

AC: (27:58)
Right, right, right.

FM: (27:59)
I'm not good extemporaneously, if I'm, you know,

AC: (28:02)
Yes.

FM: (28:03)
Am put on the spot, I'm sure, but I'm willing.

AC: (28:08)
Yeah.

FM: (28:08)
I'm willing to do things like that.

AC: (28:10)
Yeah.

FM: (28:11)
Even as a liturgist at church, it doesn't bother me to stand up and,

AC: (28:16)
Yeah.

FM: (28:17)
You know, do what I'm supposed to do.

AC: (28:18)
Yeah.

FM: (28:19)
Not preach, but,

AC: (28:20)
Right, yes.

FM: (28:21)
You know,

AC: (28:21)
Yeah, okay, yeah that, that would fit well with being a president.

FM: (28:24)
Yes.

AC: (28:24)
Well, and so I was going to ask you about how you've been involved the local Greenville and Piii County community. But you've talked about that some.

FM: (28:35)
Yes.

AC: (28:35)
And right, and so then, so it sounds like you, you went to the First Presbyterian Church as a child?

FM: (28:42)
Yes.

AC: (28:43)
And you still do?

FM: (28:44)
Yes.

AC: (28:44)
Yes.

FM: (28:45)
I'm a third generation.

AC: (28:46)
Okay. Is there anything else about that church you want to say?

FM: (28:52)
It's, it's an open church. It has not gone through the process that some of the churches of late have had to do, as far as beliefs, and it's just a very welcoming church.

AC: (29:14)
How have you seen it change over time? Like, is that still the same building? Like,

FM: (29:19)
Oh.

AC: (29:19)
You know what I mean?

FM: (29:20)
Yes.

AC: (29:20)
Like, other things that you've seen?

FM: (29:22)
Well, when I was growing up, the church was on the corner of west Fifth and, well, there was a parking lot there, but I think now there might even be a dorm type building, anyway, just a couple of blocks past, like Starlight cafe,

AC: (29:42)
Okay.

FM: (29:43)
Going west, it was there, and that's where I grew up and got married.

AC: (29:47)
Oh, okay.

FM: (29:50)
I went off to college, and the church decided to build where it is now.

AC: (29:55)
Right, which is?

FM: (29:56)
14th and Elm.

AC: (29:57)
Thank you, yes.

FM: (29:58)
And so my sister

AC: (30:02)
Okay.

FM: (30:02)
Got married in the new church.

AC: (30:05)
I see, I see.

FM: (30:06)
You know, she's three years younger than I am, and, but the congregation was pretty much the same, you know, that, that moved. My grandmother, my grandfather died, my father's parents, my grandfather died when I was like five, so I don't remember,

AC: (30:27)
Okay.

FM: (30:28)
Too much about him, but my grandmother lived on for a number of years, and she was one of the stalwarts, so to speak, of the church. And my father was too, and my mother had grown up a Presbyterian.

AC: (30:43)
Rght.

FM: (30:46)
So that's just how long I've,

AC: (30:48)
Yeah.

FM: (30:48)
Been there.

AC: (30:48)
Okay, all right, so that's how they ended up at the place they're at now.

FM: (30:53)
Yes.

AC: (30:54)
Okay, okay, all right, that's good to know. I didn't realize that, that, I didn't realize they had moved, you know, locations, so.

FM: (31:01)
Oh, yes. In fact, that

AC: (31:02)
Because I could, that church didn't seem incredibly old.

FM: (31:05)
Right.

AC: (31:06)
But I, but I didn't know when they moved.

FM: (31:07)
Yeah, it was built in '71 but actually, the church I grew up in was not the first church. There were several other smaller buildings that,

AC: (31:17)
Okay.

FM: (31:17)
You know that,

AC: (31:18)
Right.

FM: (31:19)
They, you know, previous to my grandparents, probably.

AC: (31:23)
Okay, okay, okay, what achievements are you most proud of?

FM: (31:32)
Oh, my goodness. Well, I guess,

AC: (31:39)
That can be defined, you know, in a lot of ways, too.

FM: (31:41)
Right. Well, I guess just having a wonderful family, community, and being able to contribute, and, you know, whatever talents might have fit,

AC: (32:04)
Yeah.

FM: (31:58)
With, with different things. One thing I learned, maybe it sounds selfish, but I'd rather volunteer what I have some knowledge or interest in,

AC: (32:04)
Yeah.

FM: (32:05)
Than for somebody to ask me to do something way out of my range. Not that I'm not open, but,

AC: (32:22)
Yeah.

FM: (32:23)
You know, if I'm willing, you're not likely to be asked to, you know, to do something that you're very uncomfortable with.

AC: (32:31)
Yeah, I don't think that sounds selfish at all.

FM: (32:33)
Well.

AC: (32:33)
I mean, that sounds smart.

FM: (32:35)
Smart.

AC: (32:36)
Kind of, honestly, I mean, it's not, you know, you're, because there's, because there's so many things that need volunteers.

FM: (32:41)
Right.

AC: (32:42)
So, you know, volunteering with anything is helpful.

FM: (32:45)
Right.

AC: (32:46)
You know.

FM: (32:47)
Yes.

AC: (32:47)
Okay, okay. Is there anything else that you really want to talk about? Do you, do you want to share anything else about, about your, your husband, or his other interests, or really anything, anything else about your children, I don't know, some other part of your life I didn't really touch on?

FM: (33:08)
Well, I'm sorry Tom isn't here for his own,

AC: (33:11)
Yes, yes.

FM: (33:12)
Interview, because he was so involved with ECU. He loved the sports. He was so involved with music and jazz,

AC: (33:24)
Yes, okay.

FM: (33:25)
And that started as a young man, and in college he was, this was before I knew him, but he was head of the Entertainment Committee,

AC: (33:41)
Okay, yes.

FM: (33:42)
And he brought in a lot of the really great people,

AC: (33:49)
Yeah, like musical acts.

FM: (33:50)
Yes,

AC: (33:50)
Right, yes.

FM: (33:51)
Musical acts,

AC: (33:52)
Yeah, yeah.

FM: (33:53)
For student government and his, his friends and people that are in the same years, when he was at ECU, you would know some of their names, because they are still contributors and giving. They've done wonderful, grown wonderful businesses, and they've just been fabulous people. So he was there at a time when Leo Jenkins,

AC: (34:23)
Yes.

FM: (34:24)
Was president, and one of the things that he said that contributed to his broadening was that, and he called him Leo, he would say, Leo would ask me to be responsible for something and let me run with it.

AC: (34:46)
Yeah.

FM: (34:46)
And then, when that was a success, it led to other things. And so they had a wonderful relationship at a time when maybe students and presidents were, before students and presidents in the world were,

AC: (35:05)
Yeah.

FM: (35:05)
At odds.

AC: (35:06)
Yeah, I know Phil Dixon Sr., he said something almost exact, because he was a vice president?

FM: (35:14)
Yes, he was younger, you know,

AC: (35:16)
Yeah, he said, he said the same sort of,

FM: (35:18)
Yes.

AC: (35:19)
Thing about Leo Jenkins,

FM: (35:20)
Yes.

AC: (35:20)
You know, letting him run with it.

FM: (35:21)
And see Leo's kids, his oldest child was a year older than me going through school.

AC: (35:28)
Okay, okay.

FM: (35:29)
So, in fact, there's Jeff Jenkins, I believe, has written a really, one of, or even more, some book, interesting books about life when he was growing up.

AC: (35:43)
I should make sure we have,

FM: (35:45)
I read this. I've read one of them.

AC: (35:47)
Okay, okay.

FM: (35:48)
That was a lot of fun, but,

AC: (35:54)
And so while, so Tom ran a radio show for a long time, different ones, I guess,

FM: (36:05)
Right.

AC: (36:05)
Different stations.

FM: (36:06)
When he was in college, WOOW, which, I think it still exists as a pop station, probably, was one of the only radio stations around, and they had a contest to program a late night easy listening, and he won the contest. And, and see, this was before I knew him, so I'm just,

AC: (36:06)
Right.

FM: (36:06)
Sort of,

AC: (36:06)
Yes.

FM: (36:06)
You know,

AC: (36:06)
The story as you,

FM: (36:06)
What I understand,

AC: (36:06)
Yes,

FM: (36:06)
He was offered a spot at the station,

AC: (36:06)
Okay.

FM: (36:06)
Maybe late night, whatever. And I don't know, you develop friends with people in the music arena, and after we got married, I could show you the bookcase that contained all of his LPs.

AC: (36:06)
Yes.

FM: (36:06)
It was just normal. And when, in 1974, when our daughter was just born, he, he was, he was listening to WRQR in Farmville,

AC: (36:06)
Okay.

FM: (36:06)
Which is a very, you know, I think a rather small radio station.

AC: (36:06)
Right.

FM: (36:21)
This was not a jazz station at all, but they had a late night jazz program, I think, on Sunday nights. And the, the girl or woman doing it had a nice voice, but he realized she didn't know that much about jazz, and so he called and talked to her, and he, he, he, you know, made her feel comfortable that he was not interested in her, he was interested in jazz, and could he help her in her programming and, and this, he was working at DuPont then.

AC: (38:16)
Right.

FM: (38:17)
And so that, he did that for a while. And anyway, she went on to TV work or something. And so he was offered to do this Sunday night jazz program from like 5 to 11 or whatever the hours were then. And so he did that. And he, he did it from whatever records they had, but he, mostly from his collection. But long story short, he developed relationships with jazz promoters,

AC: (38:57)
Yeah.

FM: (38:57)
In New York and so forth, and I remember one of them, big into the CBS, Columbia, you know, jazz, big guy in New York City. He said, Tom, you know, the reason I and so many of my contemporaries support you and send you free, by then, maybe CDs, he says, you're not doing it for the money.

AC: (39:25)
Yeah.

FM: (39:26)
What he made on the radio might have paid for his gas,

AC: (39:30)
Right.

FM: (39:30)
To go to,

AC: (39:32)
Yes.

FM: (39:32)
Washington and to New Bern and different places. He said, you do it for spreading the knowledge.

AC: (39:41)
Yeah, yeah.

FM: (39:43)
And so they were good to him, these promoters. So he went to national conferences and jazz promoters, and,

AC: (39:53)
Did you go sometimes?

FM: (39:54)
I went sometimes, my daughter went sometimes, she was younger, our son went sometimes.

AC: (40:03)
Yeah.

FM: (40:04)
In fact, we went to the Hampton Jazz Festival for the first time in 1976 for the next 25 years.

AC: (40:14)
Okay.

FM: (40:15)
And that festival is not all jazz, you know, it's pop and everything mixed together, which was fun. So, you know, Myra would go, and Mark would go, and then we started going to the Newport Jazz Festival. And we would, you know, sometimes combine it with a vacation.

AC: (40:36)
Right.

FM: (40:36)
We had friends in the New York area, and sometimes it was just kind of like, who can you get to go with you this year?

AC: (40:48)
Yeah, because you've been just, to a lot of them.

FM: (40:50)
Well, because,

AC: (40:51)
They were several days, probably.

FM: (40:53)
Oh, oh yes, it is.

AC: (40:54)
Right.

FM: (40:55)
The first time I went. It's just a really low key festival. I mean, the little fence to get in is like one of those little plastic things. It's not big time security.

AC: (41:08)
Yeah.

FM: (41:09)
We went out on the lawn because it backs up to Fort McHenry or Fort Adams, and then the water is all here.

AC: (41:19)
Oh, okay.

FM: (41:20)
So it's like sitting on a grassy beach.

AC: (41:22)
Yeah.

FM: (41:23)
We found our spot. He put me down, and then he went backstage. And I said, if you want me to go to these things with you, I do not want to sit out here by myself.

AC: (41:38)
Myself for, yeah, that long.

FM: (41:40)
You can get me a backstage pass. I will take my little, you know, those little beach,

AC: (41:46)
Yes.

FM: (41:47)
Chairs and my books, and I will sit and not bother anybody, which he did.

AC: (41:52)
Excellent.

FM: (41:53)
And so I've had all the backstage passes and met all these famous people, but I didn't bother anybody.

AC: (42:02)
Yeah, yeah. That's great.

FM: (42:06)
But that's the way it was. And he got a lot of those people to come to different performing things here.

AC: (42:16)
Okay, okay.

FM: (42:17)
And some of them came to our home and,

AC: (42:20)
Yeah, that's wonderful.

FM: (42:22)
So, and Myra would fly to California with him when he she was, he was going to some conference. She was maybe more college age then, and had more freedom to,

AC: (42:35)
Yeah.

FM: (42:36)
You know, for schooling and so forth. And she actually went to lots of things with him. And Mark and Tom were on the way to Newport one year when Simon and Garfunkel were in Central Park.

AC: (42:52)
Oh!

FM: (42:52)
So they got to go to that, I think was a one time thing.

AC: (42:56)
That's wonderful.

FM: (42:57)
Yeah. So they, they have great experiences.

AC: (43:00)
Yeah.

FM: (43:00)
And an interesting story about Mark was, he went to UNC Wilmington,

AC: (43:04)
Okay,

FM: (43:05)
And he was going to sports, and he became the basketball manager for four years. And one time he came home and he said, Dad, coach so and so likes jazz and, and likes, and he mentioned names that Mark was familiar with, and so Mark got more of a, an introduction that other people liked jazz, that, other than his crazy dad, you know!

AC: (43:35)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's very cool!

FM: (43:38)
Yeah,

AC: (43:38)
That's very cool.

FM: (43:40)
Yeah.

AC: (43:44)
Okay. I think there might have been, oh, oh, what year did Tom pass away?

FM: (43:51)
2015.

AC: (43:52)
Okay.

FM: (43:52)
This next month, it'll be 10 years.

AC: (43:54)
Okay, okay, thought we should record that too.

FM: (43:58)
Yes, he was driving back from the New Bern station, 12 o'clock, almost 12 o'clock on Sunday night,

AC: (44:10)
In the evening, yeah, the night.

FM: (44:11)
Where he was doing the radio program, which had progressed from,

AC: (44:14)
Right.

FM: (44:15)
Farmville to Washington to New Bern when it became the public station,

AC: (44:22)
Oh, right, Public Radio East,

FM: (44:24)
Public Radio East,

AC: (44:24)
Yes, okay.

FM: (44:26)
And he was driving back and an inebriated, so called, driver,

AC: (44:35)
Oh.

FM: (44:37)
Hit him near Vanceboro, and, and that was Sunday night of just before midnight.

AC: (44:47)
Yeah.

FM: (44:48)
And it was, it was, that year, it was Labor Day, Sunday night, that Labor Day weekend.

AC: (44:54)
Oh, okay.

FM: (44:55)
And I don't mean to end on a sad note, but luckily, Myra and her husband Will were spending the night with us that Sunday night,

AC: (45:07)
That is good.

FM: (45:08)
And I wasn't alone,

AC: (45:09)
Yes.

FM: (45:09)
When these two officers come to your house,

AC: (45:12)
Yes.

FM: (45:12)
At 1:30 in the morning.

AC: (45:14)
Yeah, yeah that is good.

FM: (45:16)
Yes.

AC: (45:17)
Where does she live?

FM: (45:18)
Myra lives now between Cary and Lake Gaston.

AC: (45:22)
Okay.

FM: (45:23)
She now works from home and Will, they're both occupational therapists.

AC: (45:30)
Oh, that's right, you told me.

FM: (45:33)
They met at occupational therapy school.

AC: (45:33)
That's wonderful.

FM: (45:33)
Will,

AC: (45:34)
Was it here at ECU?

FM: (45:35)
At ECU.

AC: (45:36)
Oh, okay.

FM: (45:37)
Will is still doing occupational therapy. Myra did it for some years, and then went to work at a business, pharmaceutical type business where she works online, and, what was I going to say? Oh, and they, they bought a place at Lake Gaston, and really, it's more of a house than the townhouse that Myra had owned as a single person in Cary.

AC: (46:13)
Yeah.

FM: (46:13)
So they said, how can we figure out that we can live at Lake Gaston? And so Will got a job in Halifax County school system as an occupational therapist.

AC: (46:26)
Great!

FM: (46:27)
So they've been there more or less full time. I think this, this may be his third year.

AC: (46:32)
Okay.

FM: (46:34)
There. And they both met when they were, well, they met in occupational therapy school, and they were friends for 12 years, and then they decided they'd date. So they got married and were content to not have children at the age they got married.

AC: (46:53)
Yeah.

FM: (46:53)
So.

AC: (46:54)
And what does your son do?

FM: (46:57)
Mark graduated from UNC Wilmington,

AC: (47:02)
Right.

FM: (47:02)
With sports, recreational,

AC: (47:08)
Oh.

FM: (47:08)
Type degree.

AC: (47:10)
Yes, okay, like recreational studies,

FM: (47:12)
Yeah.

AC: (47:12)
Or something,

FM: (47:12)
Yeah.

AC: (47:12)
Operational management,

FM: (47:13)
I forget what exactly it's called, and he, he did a little bit of that kind of thing. And then somehow, a friend got him into store managing.

AC: (47:25)
Okay.

FM: (47:26)
So he is the manager of Greenville Big Lots.

AC: (47:30)
Okay, so he's here in Greenville now.

FM: (47:32)
Yes, he, he has a lawn care business, and also another friend kept trying to get him into coaching basketball, but not having a teaching,

AC: (47:45)
Since he did enjoy,

FM: (47:46)
Degree, right.

AC: (47:47)
Worked, yeah, okay.

FM: (47:48)
Because he, you know, had done a lot of volunteer coaching,

AC: (47:52)
Right.

FM: (47:52)
With basketball with his former middle school coach.

AC: (47:55)
Yes.

FM: (47:57)
He's now, and has been for maybe five or six years, the basketball coach at Hope Middle School.

AC: (48:02)
Oh, great!

FM: (48:03)
So that's, he goes and does that, but not any teaching.

AC: (48:09)
Excellent.

FM: (48:09)
So he has three jobs.

AC: (48:12)
Sounds like he's doing things he enjoys.

FM: (48:15)
He loves the, he loves the basketball. He started the lawn care business for his son when he was a young teenager, and now he grew out of that. And so it's, it's Mark's business, and,

AC: (48:31)
Right.

FM: (48:31)
And my grandson is now a licensed plumber.

AC: (48:34)
Oh, okay.

FM: (48:35)
So he's doing well.

AC: (48:36)
Yeah.

FM: (48:37)
And his sister is 11.

AC: (48:40)
Okay, okay.

FM: (48:41)
And she is a singer,

AC: (48:43)
Okay.

FM: (48:44)
And this Sunday is her second appearance, singing at Nash from four to six.

AC: (48:52)
Oh, okay!

FM: (48:52)
So she's, she's as comfortable standing in front of you singing as other people are walking around.

AC: (49:01)
Right, right, right. Okay, well, that's great.

FM: (49:05)
Yes.

AC: (49:06)
All right. Well, is there anything else you want to talk about?

FM: (49:09)
Well, I'm sure there is, but right now I can't think of it.

AC: (49:11)
Okay, all right, that sounds good. Well, thank you very much,

FM: (49:15)
Well, you're welcome,

AC: (49:16)
For talking to me.

FM: (49:17)
It's been fun.

AC: (49:17)
It was good to hear about your life and Tom's life and your experiences in Greenville and at ECU, so thank you.

FM: (49:26)
Thank you.

[End Of Tape]