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Oral History with Frances Cain
July 1, 2025
Home of Frances Cain

Frances Cain, Interviewee
Alston Cobourn, Interviewer

AC:
Okay. Hello, my name is Alston Cobourn, and I am the University Archivist at East Carolina University, and I'm here today at the home of Frances Cain, and we're going to do an oral history interview. It is July 1, 2025. Frances, can you please tell us your full name and when and where you were born?

FC:
Frances Earl Johnson Cain, and I was born in Roanoke Rapids, North Carolina.

AC:
And when were you born?

FC:
Nine, June, 16th, 1937.

AC:
Thank you. So what did your family do for a living in Roanoke Rapids?

FC:
My mother was a stay at home mom, and my father was a textile designer for the mill.

AC:
Okay, and what's what's the name of the mill?

FC:
It was Rosemary Manufacturing Company, and it ended up being J.P. Stevens.

AC:
Okay. Did you have siblings?

FC:
One brother, John Johnson, who was three years younger than me, and also was a music major at East Carolina.

AC:
Okay. Okay, wonderful. So what led you to enrolling as a student here at East Carolina?

FC:
Well, I sort of had thought about I wanted to come here, but then when my teacher took me to the federation, North Carolina Federation of Music Club contest in Greensboro, and whoever won that would win $500 if they would be a music major. And I won it, so I got $500 and that's when I decided to major in music.

AC:
And so what did you, what did you play?

FC:
I played the piano, beginning, starting when I was about nine years old.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And was playing for my church when I was 12. They didn't have an organ until I was 15, and then I continued and played the organ. My piano teacher in Roanoke Rapids also knew the organ, so he taught me some of that.

AC:
Okay, okay, great. And when you came here and were a music major, what, what was your focus, and what did your, is your degree, like music performance, or?

FC:
Bachelor of Music in Performance, and I was, that degree had just been put in, and I was the first female to get that degree here.

AC:
Oh, that's wonderful. I think you did tell me that maybe before. Okay, and so was that with piano in particular, your focus?

FC:
It was piano and organ. My, my teacher here also was piano teacher and organ teacher.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
So he taught me both.

AC:
I see.

FC:
And we had a huge pipe organ in Old Austin.

AC:
Yes, okay, in Old Austin building. Yeah. Okay. And so did you, what year did you start here?

FC:
I started here in '55 in the fall, and went to one session of summer school, so we were in quarter system, and so it put me a quarter early finishing. So I finished after winter quarter in '59.

AC:
Okay, okay. Did you, when you were in school here, were you a part of, like, any ensemble groups?

FC:
Actually, I had never touched a violin,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Until I got here.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And they taught a class called String Group, which was in music education, and I didn't have to take it because I was in performance.

AC:
Right.

FC:
But it sounded interesting, so I signed up for music education String Group, and had never touched a violin.

AC:
Right.

FC:
And by the end of first quarter, I was in the EC, East Carolina orchestra.

AC:
Oh, yeah?

FC:
That's right

AC:
Did you enjoy it?

FC:
How bad the orchestra was, then. [Both laugh] It was made up of, we had one string major and all of,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And it was made up of people in town, and

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
Then the last couple rows were people like me; we could just do open strings, and we could hardly do anything, but.

AC:
How long did you do that group? How long were you in that group?

FC:
Four years.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
I stayed in it the whole time because I really enjoyed it.

AC:
That's good.

FC:
I finally got a little bit better, but, you know, nothing like it is now. The orchestra now is,

AC:
Really good.

FC:
Oh yeah. I don't miss their concerts.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
But that's, that's how the orchestra was then, with one string major.

AC:
Okay. [Frances laughs] That's interesting. Were there other groups that you were involved in on campus?

FC:
Okay, they have SAI, Sigma Alpha, Iota, girls' music fraternity.

AC:
Right.

FC:
That's an honorary thing, and I was in the first pledge class, because they, I came in '55 in the fall, and it was started in '55 in the spring, so I was in the first pledge class.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And still to this day, I didn't for a long time, but some of the students I know found out that I was in it, and I'm very involved now, I go, it's sort of a secretive thing. So when they have initiations, they call me to play.

AC:
Nice.

FC:
I go to play for the initiations and, and they call me all the time to get involved with them.

AC:
That's wonderful. Okay, that's great. Was there anything else in particular, or just studies?

FC:
Studies, a lot of practicing because music performance was, we had to give a full recital right at the end of sophomore year to see if we could go on, then we had to give a full recital our junior year, and then we gave a full recital our senior year.

AC:
Right.

FC:
So we had to give three.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
So there was a lot of practicing.

AC:
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Okay, did you, I know you've told me before that you originally thought you might be a business major. Did you end up studying, like do you, you weren't a double major, were you, did you study?

FC:
No.

AC:
Okay, what, but I guess, did you have electives, probably, did they let you take a few electives too, or were you mostly really just kind of focused on music?

FC:
I don't even remember my electives [Frances laughs].

AC:
Okay, but you think you did take them.

FC:
I think there were a few.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
But, I don't remember what they were.

AC:
Right.

AC:
So when you graduated from East Carolina, what did you do then?

FC:
Okay, actually, it was '59 in February when I finished, and I had met my husband in biology class, spring quarter of the year before.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And we got married in March of '59.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
It was very in, very different because he was captain of the football team and I was a music major, and that is about as far,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Different as you can get.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
So actually, we got married, and he had another year of eligibility.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
He could play in the fall of '59.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And that's when he was captain of the team, or co captain. And so I got a job, I knew shorthand, typing, all that stuff. So I got a job at WNCT.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Secretary to commercial manager. I had to do copy for the commercials, I had to place the commercials in the between the, you know, break, which we could only have two at the time.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
I think now they have about seven or eight [Frances laughs].

AC:
I know, right?

FC:
And they could not be like two car dealerships. It had to be,

AC:
Two different types of things.

FC:
Two different types of things. And I had a job, of course, I had kept one, but I had a job at the Memorial Baptist Church here with the organist.

AC:
Oh, okay. Did you do that while you were in school too?

FC:
It was down on Green Street.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And so I did that, and until he, you know, kept doing that, until he graduated,

AC:
Right. Right.

FC:
You know, and then he got a coaching job in Suffolk, Virginia. And, of course, I got an organist job at a church and had a private studio, so I had about,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Thirty-five students.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
They gave me a place that I could teach at the church, and it was right downtown.

AC:
Oh that's wonderful.

FC:
So it was just real easy to get to.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And then I was very involved with the high school. I played for all the,

AC:
Right.

FC:
Musicals I did, and the commencements, and, you know, I was kind of involved with that [Frances laughs].

AC:
Nice okay. And so tell us your, your husband's full name and where he's from.

FC:
William Earl King, we both have the same middle name, and he's from Rockingham, North Carolina.

AC:
Okay, and so you moved to Suffolks, Suffolk, and how long were y'all there?

FC:
Five years.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
He was football coach. And both of our sons were born in Suffolk.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
So they are Virginia natives [Frances laughs]

AC:
Yes, okay.

FC:
And we kind of went our separate paths, but we're still, you know.

AC:
Yeah, so then, so then after, so what did you do after that?

FC:
After that?

AC:
Yes.

FC:
When we moved from, he got a chance to coach in Albemarle, North Carolina.

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Which is in Charlotte.

AC:
Yeah, near Charlotte, yeah.

FC:
And it was sort of a promotion for him.

AC:
Right.

FC:
So he took the job and was football coach there, and I was real involved in the high school. They had musicals and all their concerts for choral music.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
They had me when they found out, that, you know,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I play, and so I was playing for everything and decided, since it was so far from my hometown, I might want to go home some weekends.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I decided not to take a full time church job.

AC:
I see.

FC:
But I was playing somewhere every Sunday.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Somebody calling me to play, filling in.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And so I said, well, I didn't say that till we moved to Greenville, but I said, I'm going to get a full time job. I'm tired of going to every church, in Albemarle.

AC:
Yeah, yeah just moving around.

FC:
Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed it, but.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I was very involved with the high school.

AC:
How long were you in Albemarle?

FC:
Three years.

AC:
Okay, okay,

FC:
'65,

AC:
And then you came to Greenville.

FC:
In '68, he got a chance to coach at East Carolina.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
They divided the freshman up from the varsity and he was head freshman coach.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And brought here by Clarence Stasavich. You ever heard that name?

AC:
Yes, [Alston laughs] yes, yes, we have some of his papers. So that's who recruit, okay, so that's who recruited him to come here. Okay, all right. Well, I should ask, too, I got out of order, but I should ask you, when you were, well, this actually, this when you were in school here, or school here, or when y'all moved back and were, you know, part of East Carolina again, are there any like particular campus events that you remember that really stuck out to you, things that you went to on campus, or speakers or anything like that?

FC:
Well, mostly athletics.

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Because I loved athletics,

AC:
Right.

FC:
And also, when we first got back here, my husband, of course, was freshman coach, but then he had to teach some P.E.classes.

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Okay, and he would, he had to teach tennis, and didn't know a whole lot about tennis.

AC:
Right.

FC:
But he would tell his students that thought they were, you know, didn't have anybody to play in class. I'm going to bring this person to class, and if you beat her, you'll get an A. [Alston laughs] So it was me, and I would walk into class and this old lady, they would say, oh boy, I've got an A for sure, [Alston laughs] and I would beat them every time.

AC:
Right.

FC:
And they would report the score, and he would say, you mean, you didn't beat that old lady? [Alston laughs] But I was very involved in athletics, and just loved athletics, so it worked out.

AC:
How did you start playing tennis?

FC:
I started when I was about nine years old.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
My mother taught me, and she was not a professional teacher.

AC:
Right.

FC:
She just said, here's a racket, get down there, and hit the ball back to me, [Alston laughs] because she, from, you know, a family of 12 that really didn't have that much, and tennis was kind of a uppity sport, you know, but her best friend, they had summer homes up in the western part of Virginia, and real fancy-like, and that's where she learned tennis. So she taught me and I played all the way through. We didn't have a team,

AC:
Right.

FC:
But I played, you know, and then played, I never, I never really played on a team of a school.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
It was always teams like Greenville Tennis Club and,

AC:
Yeah, yeah.

FC:
That kind of thing later on, but never, never, never played in high school. They didn't even have girls,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I don't know, I'm not even sure they had boys tennis in high school

AC:
Right, right.

FC:
In the '50s.

AC:
Yeah, yeah.

FC:
And then they did at East Carolina, but I didn't, I don't think. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that they had girls back then.

AC:
Yeah, I'm not sure when it started, yeah.

FC:
I'm not either, but anyway, I just enjoyed going to everything in the athletic department.

AC:
Well, so are there, are there any people from athletics, you know, athletic figures that you remember coming to campus that you were excited to see?

FC:
Oh yeah, well, one very special person was Clarence Stasavich, and he's the one that brought us here. Then the coaches, that was a funny story, sort of, Pat Dye, he was one of the coaches, and Sonny Randle,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I had all of their children as piano students.

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
And then I didn't realize what was going on until later, I found out that when they had assistant coaches coming in, they would say, well, now if you, your child needs a piano teacher. I know who to tell you to call, and that's the reason, and I had tons of boys taking piano,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Which was unusual. I had Sonny Randle's children, I had Pat Dye's children, you know, just all along the way and, and I just loved to go to everything in athletics. And, of course, I went to everything I could in music too.

AC:
Right.

FC:
Now, my husband did not go to the music, [Alston laughs] but I went to athletic events. You know, he wasn't quite, quite into that.

AC:
What if you were the one that was performing?

FC:
Oh, well,

AC:
I mean, he probably saw you in church a lot.

FC:
No, he. Oh yeah,

AC:
When you were playing in church.

FC:
He was always sitting at the same spot in church, so.

AC:
So yeah, he would see you play then.

FC:
And he, his seat in church was across and he could see me. He said he was going to be sure I was, you know, doing

AC:
[Alston laughs] What you're supposed to be doing?

FC:
What I was supposed to be doing.

AC:
And what church was it again?

FC:
St. James Methodist.

AC:
St. James Methodist, okay.

FC:
And I'm still going.

AC:
Right, right, right, yeah.

FC:
Fifty-seventh year.

AC:
Okay, that's what, okay, okay. [Frances laughs]

AC:
So your children spent most of their childhood in green, their childhoods in Greenville. Okay, um, can you, well, I guess you did talk on this a little bit. So with tennis, you said you played for the tennis organization here. So tell me a little bit about that. Tell me about your experiences with that. How long you did that, how long,

FC:
Well,

AC:
And you also, I know, have told me that, I think you, and maybe also Bill, did stuff with the Senior Games?

FC:
Oh, yeah. Well, the city tennis group had what they call a ladder, and you had to challenge and get, well, I was always number one on the ladder from women's singles.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
So I had to, and then we had teams that would go to different towns and play, Washington, New Bern, Kinston, you know, Goldsboro, Fort Bragg, we'd go, you know, to all this. I was telling somebody last night about when we played Fort Bragg, the way they searched our bags,

AC:
Oh yeah.

FC:
When we got to the gate, because, you know, they had to do that.

AC:
Right.

FC:
But anyway, for years, I did that, until I had to stop playing when I was 79 which was,

AC:
Wow.

FC:
Nine years ago.

AC:
That is a long tennis career.

FC:
I played till I, I played from 9 to 79 and I thought, well, maybe 70 years is enough [Frances laughs]

AC:
Is that, is that what you did with the special, or not special, the,

FC:
Senior Games?

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Yeah, and there,

AC:
It was tennis too?

FC:
A local tennis, it wasn't that much participation, but when you got to the state level, it was really good. And so I really enjoyed that.

AC:
What did Bill do in the Senior Games?

FC:
Racquetball.

AC:
Okay, racquetball, okay.

FC:
They had courts in Minges [Coliseum].

AC:
Yes.

FC:
It was way back, handball.

AC:
Yes, right.

FC:
Hit it with your hand,

AC:
Yes.

FC:
But then it got to be racquetball.

AC:
Right.

FC:
So that's what he did in the Senior Games, so we both were involved in that.

AC:
And so, so you in Greenville, right, you professionally, you were the organist at the church. Did you have your own studio here? Or did you work at ECU at some point?

FC:
No, I did. I taught for years here.

AC:
That's what I thought, okay.

FC:
Years.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And then, you know, just finally, as they graduated, and I finally thought, well, that's long enough. So I stopped teaching.

AC:
How long did you teach?

FC:
Well, from 1960 to probably, well, in the '90s.

AC:
Yeah, okay.

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Because,

FC:
At least 30 years, 35.

AC:
Am I remembering correctly that you are one of the School of Music's Distinguished Alumni?

FC:
Yeah, they gave me that honor in 2013.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
I couldn't believe that. [Alston laughs] That was really something, yeah.

AC:
Are there other, are there other things like that?

FC:
Well, that might,

AC:
This is a good opportunity for you to brag on yourself.

FC:
That might be,

AC:
I mean, that's what I, I mean that is what I want to know [Alston laughs]. Like, are there, are there other, you know, are there, are there other like, groups on campus you've been involved, that you have been or still are, maybe athletic related or otherwise, or scholarships you've been involved with, or, you know, other awards that you've received from the university?

FC:
Well, actually, probably the Distinguished Alumni, might be,

AC:
Yeah,

FC:
Might be,

AC:
And then I know that you, The Order of the Cupola,

FC:
Oh yeah.

AC:
You guys are part of that.

FC:
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And what is this last thing I got? What is that behind you?

AC:
Oh, yes, you're right. Oh, the Trustees Award for Distinction to you and Bill, in 2014. Yeah.

FC:
2014?

AC:
Oh, sorry, 2024.

FC:
Yeah, I started to say I think it's 2024,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And then the thing in, below it, I think, is the Leo Jenkins Society. What is that?

AC:
Yes, it is the Leo Jenkins Society, yeah.

FC:
Now he's another one that I would have to bring up that was so special there that's Leo Jenkins.

AC:
Yeah, yeah.

FC:
Oh yeah and,

AC:
Did you tell me one time that you all used to have dinner with him?

AC:
Well he used to,

AC:
You'd go to his house?

FC:
In fact, I've got letters over here from Dr. Jenkins, and I think Dr. Messick. They used to invite us over to the house to eat, mostly Dr. Jenkins. We went over there a lot.

AC:
That's wonderful.

FC:
We went over there a whole lot. He was special, and he was a member of St. James, and always sat on the back row by himself.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
And when he died, he had written somewhere he wanted me to play for his service, so.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
So I did.

AC:
That's nice.

FC:
But he was, he was a special person.

AC:
Yeah, he was here a long time, too. So, so Bill was the freshman coach and then, but he wasn't always the freshman coach, so tell me, can you tell me about that a little more?

FC:
Okay, he was freshman coach for, well, a couple of years. Then he was tennis coach and golf coach.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Which, you know, was just thrown in there on him, and,

AC:
Right.

FC:
Still had to teach physical education classes.

AC:
Yes.

FC:
So he ended up mostly teaching physical education classes and health

AC:
Right.

FC:
And that, and then, let's see, in 1975 is when Clarence Stasavich died, and he was the athletic director.

AC:
Right.

FC:
And they had no search or anything.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Dr. Jenkins said Bill Cain is the new Athletic Director, I mean,

AC:
Yes, yeah.

FC:
Which is unusual, because you know how they have searches?

AC:
Right all that stuff.

FC:
Yeah, but he named him athletic director,

AC:
Okay, okay, so that's when he became that, I got you.

FC:
In 1975 and stayed into that, gosh, I'm getting mixed up.

AC:
It was a while, I believe.

FC:
Yeah, it was a while.

AC:
Is that the position he retired from?

FC:
No, he, he actually, in fact, he got out of that in 1980 and went into the academic.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And was chair of this department, acting chair of Health and Human Performance.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
You know, all.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Went years doing all that, then he ended up being assistant to the dean.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
I can't remember the year of that.

FC:
Was that the dean of the College of Human Health Performance. Okay.

FC:
It was like Christian Solomon, who went into Oregon, and then I don't know who was after him, and then Glenn Gilbert was the last one.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And he still take, keeps in touch with me. He'll call me.

AC:
Oh, that's nice.

FC:
He lives in Oregon.

AC:
And so Bill retired from that, do you remember what year approximately?

FC:
I see, what year is it now?

AC:
It is 2025.

FC:
I've got the book in there that tells.

AC:
Okay, so he retired from there. So what did, what did, when you were both kind of retired, what did you, what did you do then, what did you like to do then?

FC:
Well, I had my church job.

AC:
Yep, okay.

FC:
He,

AC:
And you were still doing tennis, I guess.

FC:
Yeah,

AC:
And he was doing racquetball.

FC:
And he was still doing racquetball, yeah and Senior Games.

AC:
Did you, did you do any traveling? Or, I guess maybe your family, tell us about, tell me about your kids,

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Tell me their names and where did they live?

FC:
Okay, they were both born in Suffolk.

AC:
Right.

FC:
Lance lives in Greenville,

AC:
Okay,

FC:
And has three children and five grandchildren, that's Lance. So I have five great grandchildren.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And Tracy, the youngest boy. He never thought Tracy was that, a sharp name before boy,

AC:
[Alston laughs] I know one other man named Tracy.

FC:
Yeah, I did too. I know a few. But anyway, he ended up being a music major at East Carolina.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Bass trombone, and ended up being in a rock band based in Raleigh for 10 years, "The Usuals".

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Then met his wife, she was getting her CPA at State. She was from Alabama, but [unintelligible] and they they married and moved back to Alabama, where she was from.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
So he could still play his music, and she did CPA stuff and, and it was funny, because he always loved to do hard work

AC:
You mean, kind of like manual labor, is that what you mean?

FC:
Yeah, my oldest son wouldn't, no, but he loved it, and he's always found a job now, and five years ago, her job transferred her, them to Nashville, Tennessee. He's really in the loop.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
He plays with everybody they call, he's been to Cyprus with a group in Greece.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I think I've told you this have I?

AC:
I don't think so. No, not that part, but that's awesome.

FC:
Well, anyway, he and two friends have written a country Christian song that's gotten to be number five on the charts.

AC:
Oh!

FC:
But getting back to what he liked to do, and he still does it, there's a landscaper in his church that he plays for, and he got a job with him from about 6am to about 1pm then he comes home, takes a shower and goes out and plays his music.

AC:
Right.

FC:
So I asked him, I said, well, what do you do all morning? He goes, kill snakes, dig holes, whatever I have to do. He just loves to do that.

AC:
Yeah. He likes, yeah, being outside.

FC:
And so he's having a ball in Nashville.

AC:
Okay, awesome.

FC:
And he has two sons that, one in Birmingham and one back in Nashville, now. He's back and forth from England.

AC:
I see, traveling.

FC:
And the one that lives in Birmingham has always been really good at like computers and, you know, everything. Never had any training, but when he was in the fourth grade, they gave him a box of junk metal, and he built a computer that worked. [Alston laughs] So he does all the promo work for the city of Birmingham,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And now the city of Houston has seen his work, so now they've hired him too. So he's back and forth,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
From Houston to, you know. And the three grandchildren, the children of my son here in Greenville, one of them lives in Santa Fe, New Mexico. One lives in in Austin, Texas, and one lives in Wilmington.

AC:
Okay.

AC:
And between them, they've got five children, so I got five great grandchildren and five grandchildren.

AC:
Okay, okay, a lot of good family to enjoy. And so you just mentioned currently with East Carolina, right? You are involved with the School of Music and the music fraternity. Are there other, are there other things? Do you still go to any of the athletic events?

FC:
I always buy tickets to all of them, [Alston laughs] season tickets, but it's kind of hard for me. I can get into basketball,

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Easier than football.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
But I still get them, because I like to give them to my son, and he has coworkers, and I buy five tickets, and so they have a good time with that. And in fact, I was calling the ticket office yesterday see if they'd come out yet, they did a reseeding of the whole stage. Did you know that?

AC:
No.

FC:
Yeah, you had to go over and pick out you something, so I think I had the same seat. But anyway, I love to go mostly to the basketball because I,

AC:
Do you go to men's and women's?

FC:
Yeah, it's men, actually, they're not my seats. It's a friend of my son's.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
He has seats one row behind the team, I mean they're perfect seats.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And so that's when I go, to those, and I keep up with that, all of it, you know,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
who's winning, who's doing,

AC:
Right

FC:
Yeah. Never did, I knew some of the girls that play for girls' basketball way back and I can't think.

AC:
Yeah. When you were in school, did you go to the sports events then?

FC:
Well,

AC:
Some of them?

FC:
I'm sure I went to football. I mean, I know I did.

AC:
Right, right, right.

FC:
Because Bill was playing, or.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Yeah, but,

AC:
Don't really remember a whole lot.

FC:
No, not that much.

AC:
Where did you live on campus, did you live on campus or you lived off campus?

FC:
Oh, you mean, before I got married, I was in the dorms.

AC:
Yeah, okay. What dorm were you in?

FC:
Cotton.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Wilson, was short time, and Garrett for the last two years.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And then when we got married, we lived on, over there next to the, right across from Garrett, I can't, Holly Street.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Holly Street. Then a street which was near the river.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And then we moved up to Third Street. We got a house there, and then built this house in '74.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
We've been here 51 years.

AC:
Okay, what can you tell me about dorm life?

FC:
Oh, well, I enjoyed it.

AC:
Did you have one roommate or more than one?

FC:
One roommate.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And, well, my freshman roommate, she's not living anymore, but the one I had the last two years, we still stay in contact.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
We talked this past week. She lives in Trenton, North Carolina.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
So sometimes she's up here.

AC:
The dorm, when you lived in the dorms, were they all, was it like all a female dorm?

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Right, yeah.

FC:
In Fletcher?

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Is it not now? Is it,

AC:
I'm not sure to be honest.

FC:
Well maybe,

AC:
I'm not sure, I know they aren't all, so.

FC:
Yeah, it was,

AC:
Did you have, did you have, 've read some of the old student handbooks, and there seemed to be a lot of, a lot of rules. [Alston laughs] Were there anything in particular that you really remember?

FC:
Well, not really, because I was not, I was kind of laid back and didn't get into a lot of stuff, so I probably didn't know where. [Frances laughs] [Alston laughs]

AC:
Yeah, I think, you know, just things, maybe with like curfew,

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
And stuff like that,

FC:
Well,

AC:
When you had to be back.

FC:
Yeah, I didn't have any problem with that, because I was only, always in there early.

AC:
Did you study usually in the, in your room? Like, well, I mean, obviously you had to practice some,

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
I guess Fletcher,

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Right, usually, but if you were studying, did you tend,

FC:
Well not Fletcher, not Fletcher.

AC:
Yeah, where, what, where?

FC:
The music building was Whichard.

AC:
Oh, oh that's right you said Old, Whichard, that's right. That's right. Okay.

AC:
So, I had to down there.

AC:
Okay, and so the organ was in Old Austin.

FC:
And Old Austin was the organ,

AC:
But you would go to Whichard.

FC:
I'd go to Whichard.

AC:
And do stuff too, okay. Did you study in your dorm usually or did you go to the library ever?

FC:
Yeah, I went to the library some but,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Usually, if I had to look up some info, you know.

AC:
Right, right, right.

FC:
But usually, I just studied it, in the dorm room.

AC:
Were there any places on campus that you or your friends, like, sort of gathered to, like, just kind of hang out? I know that I've heard there, like, were some, like, maybe in Wright Auditorium, like, in the bottom of Wright, there was, like a,

FC:
Yeah that was a student center.

AC:
Yeah, right.

FC:
That was a soda shop.

AC:
That was a soda shop, yeah, I've heard about that some.

FC:
That was a soda shop.

AC:
Did you ever go there?

FC:
Yeah, I went there some, but I never was one to hang out that much [Frances laughs].

AC:
Gotcha, gotcha, okay.

FC:
But I did, I remember the soda shop. Yep, forgot about that. It was under Wright.

AC:
I've seen a few pictures.

FC:
Have you? What's under there now?

AC:
I don't know. I don't know what's under there now,. That's a good question. Are there, so I guess I was wondering too, if there were, like from when Bill, from when your husband worked, you know, in athletics here at East Carolina, are, what are, do you have any memories from that time that you would like to share about, I don't know, traveling with the you know, the teams or anything?

FC:
We would get to travel with the teams.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
A lot, yeah. And that was fun for me.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Oh yeah, yeah. Which, I forgot about that. We sure did. We traveled with the teams and we went to, let's say, where was it they played, and we went Army, Navy, you know, all up in there, and let me see, good grief I hadn't thought about that in ages. [Alston laughs]

AC:
Is there,

FC:
But we did, we traveled with the team a lot.

AC:
Any particular, any particular memories from that time period? Or people, I guess I could say that too.

FC:
Yeah. Gosh, I hadn't thought about that era in so long. I can't I can't even remember. [Frances laughs]

AC:
Yeah, was that, was that when he was the athletic director?

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Gotcha.

FC:
And, we, yeah, I would travel with them all the time. I got to think that over. [Alston laughs].

AC:
Well that's cool. That's very cool. [Frances laughs] Are there other things that, well, I guess I could say, what achievements are you most proud of, but I think you've touched on that a little bit, right?

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
That, your Lifetime Achievement Award from the School of Music,

FC:
Oh yeah.

AC:
I know was one of them.

FC:
Yeah, I was surprised at that [Frances laughs].

AC:
Are there other, are there other things that you're particularly proud of?

FC:
Well, my whole family, actually.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Yeah. All of them have done well.

AC:
Yeah. That's like, that's a good thing to be proud,

FC:
All of them.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And, I can, can I tell you one story about,

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Bill and me, we were so opposite.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
So opposite. And when I, he got into the Hall of Fame.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Athletic Hall of Fame, in fact, he started it [Frances laughs].

AC:
Oh okay, okay.

FC:
And,

AC:
When, did he start that when he was AD?

FC:
[Frances agrees] And,

AC:
When, yeah, when he was the athletic director is when he started it?

FC:
Yeah, I can't remember exactly when it was started,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
But he said he thought we needed, they needed to have one.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
But anyway, I said to him one day, which is better famous or distinguished? And he said, you are extinguished. [Alston laughs] So that's how we went at each other all the time [Frances laughs]. But some really happy memories over there and still really love to keep in touch with a lot of the people. And oh, I'll have to tell you one funny story about the orchestra.

AC:
Yes.

FC:
Okay, there was a guy called Vittorio Giannini.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
He started the School of the Arts.

AC:
Oh!

FC:
He was the first head,

AC:
Was it the North Carolina School of Arts?

FC:
He was the first head of the School of Arts.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Well, it was when I was in the orchestra, and he came to Greenville to conduct his own symphony for an or, for a concert. And we were, you know, we were way back in the back, and could barely play, part, you know, we did the best we could. And some of the main ones were out that day, and here, and he stopped the pract, the rehearsal and said he wanted this group to play their part by themselves, and my teacher, who was in, had to go up to him and tell him "they're not capable." [Alston laughs] [Frances laughs]

AC:
What did he say then?

FC:
Well, he let us go, he just, [Alston laughs] [Frances laughs]. I'll never forget that one "they're not capable," [Alston laughs], which is true.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I enjoyed it. I stayed in it, and ended, what was so, and I was looking at a year book, I think I had one left. I think I gave you,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And it was like, let's see, I can't remember where I saw it. Maybe in there under my name, about what I'd done. I was president of the E, MENC Chapter, Music Educators National,

AC:
North Carolina.

FC:
North Carolina.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And I was not even in music education, and I was the president of that club. [Alston laughs]

AC:
That's not a bad thing, though [Frances laughs]. Okay, so that's another thing. Do you remember anything about that group?

FC:
It was a huge group of music educators,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And, and my brother was in it. He was a freshman when I was a senior.

AC:
Right.

FC:
And he thought it was really funny, that I was,

AC:
Did you, did y'all just meet periodically and,

FC:
Who, my brother?

AC:
No, the, that group, what did y'all do?

FC:
Oh, oh yeah. Well, yeah, they met and promote music education, which I was not even in [Frances laughs],

AC:
Yeah, yeah.

FC:
I don't know. I don't know how that happened [Frances laughs].

AC:
Right. Yeah, so what's your brother? Oh, that's right, you said John Johnson, and he,

FC:
He passed away about four years ago,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And he was a band director. He was in, he's a saxophone and clarinet major.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
And he used to come to Greenville a lot, and we would play in church together.

AC:
Oh that's nice.

FC:
I would get him to play for me, because they used to have a dance band called "The Collegians,"

AC:
Yes.

FC:
And he was in that, and they had reunions about every few years,

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
And he'd always come to that.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
And so, and he lived in South Carolina, that's where his wife was from.

AC:
I was gonna ask you where he was.

FC:
His first job was, they had an Air Force Base at Myrtle Beach, and he was the band director in the school at the Air Force Base.

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
And funny thing about him was, he got his degree in music, and then he had to go to Vietnam,

AC:
Oh.

FC:
And they put him on a tank. [Alston laughs] And because he didn't mention his music degree,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
He got back to the, [Phone Rings]

AC:
Okay,

FC:
Anyway,

AC:
So, so he,

FC:
He got back from off the tank that day and said, by the way, I have a degree in music [Frances laughs]. And so they put him in charge of music at all the officers' parties.

AC:
Oh that was,

FC:
So that's what he did the rest of the time in Vietnam.

AC:
Much better.

FC:
Yeah. [Frances laughs]

AC:
How long was he there?

FC:
About two years, I think, you know,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Whatever the,

AC:
Gotcha.

FC:
But anyway, we used to, growing up, my father was a self taught artist, self taught musician,

AC:
Right.

FC:
Self taught design, [unintelligible] all of that, and he never had a lesson in music. But we, I was probably twelve, and my brother nine, and my father, we entertained at every club in Roanoke Rapids.

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
The Lions Club and, you know.

AC:
Yeah, what did your, what did your dad play?

FC:
Saxophone.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Same thing my brother played.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I don't think he ever played clarinet, but when my brother got here, he had to be a clarinet major, and saxophone was sort of secondary.

AC:
I see.

FC:
But you know, so he played both.

AC:
Okay, were you involved in the church here? You said that, right? When you were a student, you were involved in,

FC:
In Memorial Baptist.

AC:
That's where you're saying you played then okay, so that's what you used to do.

FC:
I still stay in contact with some of those people.

AC:
That's wonderful.

FC:
You know, they're, you know, where they are now, they own a, yeah,

AC:
Were there are other things that I haven't asked you about that you want to tell me about?

FC:
I can't think of anything [Frances laughs].

AC:
It doesn't really, you know, matter what they are, just, just in case, there's something else you really wanted to tell me about.

FC:
My mind's kind of blank right now [Frances laughs].

AC:
Okay, all right. Well, I appreciate you taking the time to tell us a little bit about your experiences and with East Carolina, and it's really great that you've been able to be involved in the university for so long.

FC:
Oh yeah.

AC:
You know, in so many ways.

FC:
I love it.

AC:
I think, yeah.

FC:
Yep, I sure do. I really enjoy being involved with the School of Music.

AC:
Yeah, yeah.

FC:
'Cause, and then, is on?

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And then our Choral Scholar Program, have I told you about that?

AC:
No.

FC:
Oh, okay, well, our choir, my choir director is head of choral music at ECU

AC:
Okay.

FC:
He's Dr. James Franklin.

AC:
Oh, yeah!

FC:
And he's been there now probably seven years or so, and I really enjoy working with him.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And back before he got here, actually, Jeff Ward, he was in the School of Music, he went to Kansas or somewhere to be a head of the department, but they moved about seven, eight years ago, but he started this program. We have a choral scholar program where we have about, right now, we've got eight music majors, voice majors, in our choir.

AC:
Oh!

FC:
And we've become real, really involved with them and, and, you know, getting to know them, and, in fact, is it April or May, I've got pictures in there, we had, they all came over here to my house for lunch. James went and got stuff from Sam Jones, and I've got that pool table,

AC:
Right.

FC:
And pinball machine, so all eight of them came over here and spent about three or four hours with me.

AC:
Nice.

FC:
But we came, we become really close to them.

AC:
That's wonderful.

FC:
And it's been a great program.

AC:
Okay, okay, are they, is it like for course credit, or they just,

FC:
No, not course credit,

AC:
Or are they just getting experience?

FC:
Well, they, the church pays them some, a little bit.

AC:
Okay, so they have like a stipend with it.

AC:
Yeah, yeah, it's not,

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
And of course, we're,

AC:
Sounds good.

FC:
We don't have them now, we just have them when they're,

AC:
Right, not during the summer, yeah.

FC:
In school, yeah. And so we're making,

AC:
No, that's great though.

FC:
We're making do [Frances laughs],

AC:
That's nice.

FC:
But it's really been a good program and we get so close to them. And I go to all of their recitals. I've told you what the faculty calls me.

AC:
No.

FC:
Have I told you? I go to everything over there. I've got a seat that I like to sit in. It's row number F, and I said it's my initial.

AC:
Right.

FC:
I'm on row number F, and the faculty calls me a Groupie [Alston laughs].

AC:
That's cute [Alston laughs].

FC:
Because I go to everything. They have such good stuff over there.

AC:
They do, they do.

FC:
Recital, the faculty recitals, I've gotten to know a lot of the faculty, and it's just been, it's been really good, really good to be involved [Frances laughs].

AC:
That's wonderful.

FC:
Yeah, I really enjoyed that, but they're something.

AC:
So were, okay, and so when you were there, it really, music, was just in Old Austin and Whichard.

FC:
[Frances agrees]

AC:
Okay.

FC:
Not that much in Austin, except for whoever did organ.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
We had the organ in there. Oh, and we had a Thursday afternoon recital.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
They had an auditorium in there.

AC:
Right, yes.

FC:
We, every Thursday was the School of Music, Department of Music recital, and we had a recital and we,

AC:
And it was different, who was performing?

FC:
It was like, students.

AC:
Okay, and it changed each week.

FC:
Each week it was different. We had student recitals.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And then we had a big, huge pipe organ in there.

AC:
I've seen a couple of pictures.

FC:
Have you?

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And what was funny is, I guess, I think I told you this, it was certain times we couldn't practice because the pipes were up high,

AC:
No.

FC:
And faculty offices are up there,

AC:
Oh.

FC:
And it would deafen them if we were down there [Frances laughs]. So we had certain times, we could not,

AC:
Oh, okay. No, you didn't tell me that, that's interesting.

FC:
Certain times we could not go in there [Frances laughs].

AC:
Interesting.

FC:
But it was a nice organ and my, my teacher, he, he, taught us in there, is where we took our lessons, and he went to Roanoke Rapids and played for my wedding.

AC:
Oh, that's wonderful. [Frances Laughs]

FC:
Yeah. George Perry.

AC:
Okay, okay.

FC:
He was my teacher, piano and organ teacher.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
We had Elizabeth Drake, Dr. Carter, three piano teachers, and he taught piano and organ, but the other two taught just piano.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Elizabeth Drake, and, and then this Towle, Eleanor Towle, taught kind of, well, it's more music education stuff, you know, like, not recital music, but, I mean, you know, that was her, we had four teachers, and they want each corner of Whichard building.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And those little windows that you see were practice rooms.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
If you look up there you see little windows,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
They were our practice rooms.

AC:
And you said it was a new degree.

FC:
Bachelor of Music and Performance,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Was brand new.

AC:
Yeah. So,

FC:
There was one guy that got it right, but he was a few quarters ahead of me.

AC:
Okay, and so it was it really just piano and organ?

FC:
Well,

AC:
At that time?

FC:
It was then, but I've, later on, I think maybe all the instruments had that.

AC:
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, but when you were there?

FC:
Oh yeah.

AC:
Was it really just that?

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Did they do voice yet?

FC:
I, well, I was, I think I was the only one that year, the guy that, it really hadn't developed that much.

AC:
Yeah, so it might have, okay, well, that's, that's interesting.

FC:
It might have, might have developed into that.

AC:
That's how it started.

FC:
I'm, I'm sure it did.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Because a lot of the ones that went into opera,

AC:
Yes, right, right.

FC:
Would have had that degree.

AC:
Exactly, okay.

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
But yeah, you don't, you don't, you mostly really just remember people doing piano and organ.

FC:
Yeah, yeah, because it had just been put in.

AC:
That's really interesting.

FC:
And the guy before me, his name was Jasper Williford, and he was from Farmville.

AC:
Oh,

FC:
He was,

AC:
The one who graduated before you.

FC:
He was the first, I can't remember whether we kind of overlapped, or whether he graduated and I, seems like he was there when I was there.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Seems like he, you know, he was just ahead of me a couple of years.

AC:
Okay, was the music education program, that was a lot bigger, though.

FC:
Oh, yeah.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
That was his 'cause see,

AC:
That has been there for a while.

FC:
That, oh yeah, that was,

AC:
Beause of the Teachers College.

FC:
What a, band directors and,

AC:
Yes, okay.

FC:
Music teachers in school,

AC:
Gotcha.

FC:
Yeah.

AC:
Okay.

FC:
That was, that was there.

AC:
That was pretty well established.

FC:
That was there from the beginning.

AC:
Yeah, yeah, okay.

FC:
What is this right here? What is that?

AC:
Sticker.

FC:
Oh, [Frances laughs].

AC:
Yep.

FC:
Leo Jenkins, oh my gosh, what a character.

AC:
You got any stories about him you want to share?

FC:
No. Except I remember him sitting on that back row. And when he died, I remember he died during Christmas holidays.

FC:
Yeah, and he wanted the college choir to sing, yeah, all that's written down.

AC:
I could understand that.

FC:
And I thought about him really, sure, about three weeks ago, I played Mozart's "Ave Verum," and that's what he wanted me to play as a special song.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And every time I play that, I think about him.

AC:
Yeah, [Frances laughs] yeah.

FC:
Which surprised me, I don't know why, but I just,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
I've played some strange songs for people, for funerals that they have written down. Can I, can you erase some of this if you don't want to hear it? [Alston laughs]

AC:
I can if I want to.

FC:
You know the, at the hospital, the big building, it says Eddie and Jo Allison Smith on top of it?

AC:
Yeah, what's, is that the children?

FC:
No, that's the cancer.

AC:
Yeah, okay.

FC:
You know,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
That real tall,

AC:
The cancer center.

FC:
Well, Jo was in our choir at church, and I used to come with her all the time and Eddie, they were big Chapel Hill, Carolina people,

AC:
Okay.

FC:
And gave a ton of money up there. But it's also, I see now that the athletic complex is the Eddie Smith, Jo, you know, kind of athletic, well Jo died. She was the nicest, both of them. He, I've got letters that he writes me. I keep them. He still writes me cards, that he liked my music and I mean, but anyway, Jo died and, and he said, I wonder if you would play something for me, for the family to go out. And I, when I found out what it was, and I said, well, I would only do it for you, Eddie [Alston laughs]. He wanted me to play "Hark the Sound of Tar Heel Voices,"

AC:
Oh [Alston laughs].

FC:
And that's what I played for them to go out.

AC:
That's sweet. [Frances laughs] That's sweet of you.

FC:
But he's been giving a ton of money for everything in Greenville.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
And Chapel Hill, and,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
But he'll write me, he lives by himself out in Grimesland, I believe.

AC:
Oh, okay.

FC:
He's got a he's got a farm out there and,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
He says he just couldn't stay in the house that they,

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
Lived in, so.

AC:
Yeah.

FC:
He's written me some nice letters. I 'bout talked you out, hadn't I?

AC:
[Alston laughs] No, no, you're good. Well, thank you very much, and okay. [END OF TAPE]