[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

Julian Vainright
Interviewee

Daniel Ferkin
Interviewer

November 16, 2023
East Carolina University, Joyner Library

DF: (00:14)
See if our levels need to be boosted up. I think that looks pretty good. Maybe a little too loud or it's recording, but I think we are good to go on that. So I'll do my introduction and then I'll start off with the first question.

DF: (00:38)
All right, so my name is Daniel Ferkin. I'm the assistant university archivist in university history and records. And today is November 16, 2023. And I am on the fourth floor in the rare book room, and I'm interviewing Julian Vainright. So could you tell us your full name?

JV: (01:07)
Julian Robert Vainright.

DF: (01:12)
All right. And just when and where you were born?

JV: (01:15)
Okay. I was born in Farmville. In my grandparents' upstairs bedroom.

DF: (01:21)
Oh, wow.

JV: (01:24)
In 1932. And then I moved out into the country where my grandparents, other grandparents had a farm. And my dad and mother lived there and farmed. And then dad later, after my grandparents passed, he farmed for a while, but he operated heavy equipment for the state and for the city. And then my mother worked, well she retired from JC Penney company.

DF: (01:52)
Okay. And your dad, when you said you worked for the city that was Greenville?

JV: (01:57)
Yeah, Greenville.

DF: (01:59)
And I was just curious about like the, you'd mentioned, like the farm was out in the country and like outside of Farmville area.

JV: (02:06)
Well it was between Farmville and Greenville. Near frog - a little sub community of Frog level. The farm joined that property. And it was primarily raised tobacco and cotton and corn. And had, you know, they maintained their own gardens and a lot of raised hogs, you know, for food, and my grandmother did our garden and canned food, you know, that type of thing in the country. And then then when I became six, they wanted me to go to city schools and so they moved to Greenville. And I went, that's when I started at training school. In the first grade in 1938, my first grade teacher was Miss redwine. And then I finished the, through the sixth grade there and then went over to Third Street School because we moved and then I graduated from Rose High School in Greenville. So I'm a native of Greenville. And then it was just natural to migrate here because of having started on the campus and then went to Greenville High and then came right back over here were so much sociation with the high school and East Carolina at that time. So thats how I ended up at East Carolina. In 1950, I started in 1950.

DF: (03:53)
So just going more into that like about what made you decide when you're growing up like you're attending school here on campus, the Wahl-Coates?

JV: (04:05)
Well, it wasn't Wahl-Coates at that time. Ms. Wall was the principal and thats how the school was named for her. And then then Wahl-Coates was moved out onto Fifth street. I don't know what the - training school's all I've ever known. But it's no longer the training school.

DF: (04:28)
Now it was let's see if I can remember the order was the training school then the Teachers Training College, then the college then it finally became a university. So I'm sure you've seen like its transformation all the way through?

JV: (04:45)
Yeah. well, and then it became in probably 19. Oh, no 2000 what year it came under the umbrella of the university system.* And that's when it became East Carolina University and to a degree lost its independence. Dr. Messick who is in this picture, was probably the person who got East Carolina started into growth period, because he was we weren't, were not affiliated the under the umbrella. So he had, he had direct connections to the state legislature without going through the university system. And so he played it. He played his politics right and got a lot of money for East Carolina, and that's where the growth really started. And then he turned, he'd retired and turned it over to Dr. Jenkins.

DF: (05:50)
Yeah, because we do hear a lot about like, Jenkins and then his push to get university status in the 60s. But a lot it seems like a lot of that foundation was set under Messick in the it's like late 40s, early through the late 50s.

JV: (06:05)
Yeah. Well, Dr. Jenkins took over what Dr. Messick brought Dr. Jenkins here as his academic person. And then when Dr. Messick retired, Dr. Jenkins took over. And that was in 1970. I think was that transition. '69 or '70 because that picture I started November, November, the first of 1959. And that picture was made in 1960, when that transfer took place.

DF: (06:49)
That's interesting, just whole school history.

JV: (06:53)
So that just being so familiar, a lot of a lot of Greenville high school students came to East Carolina, okay more than any other location because we're so familiar with it. And, you know, we were over here a lot of times to go through a biology class to see something. And, you know, it was just a natural for us to migrate here.

DF: (07:19)
So did you ever like, have like a class that came over here just to like, tour around?

JV: (07:23)
Yeah, we would do that. And, and my son later on. Who also when he went to Rose high, but he had never really decided he wanted to go into medicine. But he came to a Biology class and they dissected a cat and that that is when he made a decision that he wanted to go on into medicine. And he did and he was right. He just retired as radiologist here. But that yeah, that so that connection is so many of us were familiar and liked music, you know, the bands and things like that, that we knew and all the athletics so it was it was a natural to come here. So one motive I didn't know about any other school, really but East Carolina.

DF: (08:22)
Did like you attend like the football games and stuff before?

JV: (08:26)
Yeah. Yeah, we did.

DF: (08:31)
You remember a specific time that like, while you're in high school that you came over here?

JV: (08:37)
Well, it was different times, we would come like a science class, we would come over here. And actually, this I just happen to pop in my mind down on the West Campus. There were way back, there was Civil War trenches in there. And we used to we I remember seeing those from a visit over here that we somebody pointed out those where its commercial down there now.

DF: (09:16)
I'm sure it's all built up now.

JV: (09:19)
But But yeah, things like that, we had the connection with East Carolina and even so many of the, of the faculty of Greenville High, you know, spouses were also over here so it was a natural connection.

DF: (09:38)
Yeah I was gonna say like, it seemed like a lot of teachers would be graduating from here to go to a job.

JV: (09:43)
Yeah they did. But I was a day student. I never I never stayed in the dorm.

DF: (09:48)
Okay, Because you lived in town. Even today, that's, I get that save a good bit of money on the dorm costs and stuff like that, but I was gonna ask. So what years did you attend I guess, East Carolina college?

JV: (10:15)
I started in 1950 and I graduated in 1954. And I had a BA degree graduated then when I came back to work for East Carolina in 1959. I immediately went to graduate school and got a got my Master's in 1962.

DF: (10:35)
So you went to the graduate school here?

JV: (10:40)
Yeah. But it wasn't a it was not the there was not a school of business was not a school of so many will have schools or even colleges. Back then it was primarily departments.

DF: (10:54)
Yeah. So, while you were an undergrad did they have like specific majors?

JV: (11:05)
Yeah, I majored in business.

DF: (11:08)
Okay, and then your graduate degree was in business.

JV: (11:17)
So yeah, and I actually, when I was working, I had finished the Air Force and I wanted to I did my graduate school on the GI Bill.

DF: (11:30)
Oh, yeah. That time. I guess, moving into that. So while you're on campus as a student, first undergrad, what organizations

JV: (11:48)
Okay I have some of those. Oh, one thing I was in the Drum and Bugle Corps, and I was president of the Canterbury club, the Canterbury Club is an episcopal college for college students.

DF: (12:04)
Okay.

JV: (12:06)
And that was very active at the time. And I was president of the FBLA. And Secretary of Circle K, the Circle K was a a sponsored by the Kiwanis. And it was a service. We did not have fraternities and sororities, and we didn't have the social. But the Circle K was like a, almost like a fraternity. It was a service organization. But it was sort of an, it was an honor to be in it. It was a well, well run school facade. What am I trying to say? An organization, and then I was vice president Phi Sigma Pi, which was a service fraternity. And I was in a cadet officer's club. They were most of the things that I was involved with like that.

DF: (13:12)
Okay, so an FBLA is Future Future Business Leaders-

JV: (13:18)
-of America. And why after I came after I was working here, Dr. White and, and I helped get FBLA organizations into high schools around.

DF: (13:34)
Oh okay, so you would take time to like, go to say, like Rose high and yeah. Do you like remember any of the presentations that you're giving to the students.

JV: (13:44)
I dont right at this time, that was a long time ago.

DF: (13:49)
I understand. Do you have any, like memories in particular of any like, I guess specific, like, standout moment, and?

JV: (14:00)
You know, I dwelled on that quite a bit, and I don't know of any particular thing. One, one of the first celebrities that I will remember was when I was a student at training school, Eleanor Roosevelt came. And she was in the lib - went into the Sheppard Memorial Library downtown. And we, our class went down and I didn't, I really didn't know who I was looking at, but it was

DF: (14:29)
a little too young.

JV: (14:32)
He was her husband, of course, was president at that time. But that's about the highlight of my and then John Kennedy came here one time well that was after I was working here.

DF: (14:44)
I believe that was 1960 when he was running for election.

JV: (14:46)
Yeah I think that's right.

DF: (14:49)
I know we have some of that stuff in our collection here. Let me just

JV: (14:54)
He did a he did a speech at the outdoor stadium.

DF: (15:01)
Yeah, that would be college stadium. I guess going back to some of the student organizations that you had been you mentioned a few being a president of number that does sound like you had been busy.

JV: (15:18)
Yeah. I was more active in things like that than I was in study. I was not a good student but it was, it was fun. We had it was a good, just a good campus. Everybody knew each other. It was small enough that we did and it was, it was a fun school.

DF: (15:40)
How many students were on campus?

JV: (15:43)
About then there were probably about 4000 probably at the most, give or take.

DF: (15:52)
Now we're are up over 30,000**. Now today, significant growth. And even when you come back for graduate school, I'm sure like the campus had changed.

JV: 16:04
Yeah. Well, when I the reason that I came back here well, I showed you doctor, not doctor, but Mr. Duncan was the pres- He was the Vice President for Business Services. And I had known him in St. Paul's Episcopal Church here. And when I got out of the Air Force, East Carolina had had just started routed to the growth period through Dr. Messick. And they, they were just starting to build some dorms and he offered me the job of director of dorms. And I sort of wanted to go and try sales, and I thanked him, but I went into sales in Raleigh, but I told him, if anything else came up, let me know I might be interested. And I found out I did not like sales. So then they created a position of Director of purchasing. So he gave me that opportunity. And so I was the first director of purchasing for East Carolina. And then, in 1970. Mr. Duncan had retired and clip, Clifton Moore was the Vice President for Business Services. And so he had been the business manager under Dr., under Mr. Duncan. So then he let me become the business manager, he Cliff Moore became the vice president or vice chancellor I forgot when the transition took place. But anyway, I took his position as a business manager. And I retired, then the guy that that is in that job now he's Associate Vice Chancellor for Business services has a title that long, makes four times as much money as I did, and does half the work.

DF: (18:23)
The same job changes in return.

JV: (18:26)
So anyway I retired in 1986, and got into real estate for about 20 years.

DF: (18:36)
Going back, so you had graduated in 1954 in business and then you were also commissioned into the Air Force?

JV: (18:46)
I immediately went into the Air Force. We were commissioned, we got our commission as Lieutenant in the Air Force. And we, I say we, several of us did. And then as I drove out there, my wife graduated, we went into the Air Force immediately and I went to flight school. Within within three weeks or so of my graduation, I was in flight school in Florida.

DF: (19:17)
I was just curious about like, your time being in like the first ROTC class here at East Carolina. And if anything stands out in your memory of being like, we were the first ones to do this or?

JV: (19:33)
Well, it was different we we actually had to do marching in all and then we had to go to summer camp for two weeks. That's for intense military training. So and then we had classes all during that time. So we we was like cadets like cadets, you know. They go too, not as intense as the military academies, but we did get qualified as commissioned lieutenants.

DF: (20:09)
So like, summer camp was kind of like, boot camp.

JV: (20:13)
It was it was the intense boot. You're they inspected, they would do the finger inspections, you know, to make sure no dust was in your, in your quarters and things like that.

DF: (20:28)
That stuff in the movies. It was actually.

JV: (20:31)
It exactly yeah, it was it was intense for two weeks. And it was good. And yeah. So and then we did that for one. We had to do that one time during our four years.

DF: (20:47)
Okay. So was that camp like out-?

JV: (20:49)
It was Air Force bases.

DF: (20:52)
I'm not really familiar with like, I know like there's Camp Lejune and some of the Marines.

JV: (20:57)
Well, it was in Valdosta, Georgia, it was moody, Moody Air Force base.

DF: (21:04)
Oh, so you were down there. Okay. Take a trip down to Georgia.

JV: (21:08)
And different ones. And and the what happened, the the people, the officers who were instructors had to go with with us. And so they like Duke, and Carolina and so forth. The students were there and then the officers from their respective school were there as as tack officers they called it.

DF: (21:36)
So you got to interact with like, students from other UNC schools.

JV: (21:41)
Yeah, we did. Yeah. And one of the, one of the guys that was he was he was from a unit in Chapel Hill. And he was a lawyer. He's was an attorney, and also a pilot. And he and I became real close friends. And he came back, he came to Greenville and he and our real close friends. And he just friendship established, you know?

DF: (22:18)
It's like, the people you meet like, you never know, like, how it'll end up.

JV: (22:26)
But we, I finished flight school in Reese Air Force Base in Lubbock, Texas. And then I was assigned to Loring Air Force Base in Maine, which was a SAC, Strategic Air Command. And I flew refuel and tankers for up there for two years. And then I decided to get out of the Air Force. And then later, I decided I still wanted to fly. So some friends were in the Army National Guard in Raleigh. And so I transferred over to the army and to get into the Army Guard. And we flew a little small observation plane. So 0-1 A's, or bird dogs. And I used to keep one down here in Greenville. Quite a bit.

DF: (23:31)
Down at the airport?

JV: (23:33)
Yeah, it was fun.

DF: (23:35)
So it was just more like recreational flying?

JV: (23:38)
Well, we got paid for it. I mean, and we had to, we had to get as the regular flying hours and night and instruments and so forth, just like active duty. So we, we had to do do it, but we got paid for it to. One of the guys that in our freshmen are here. And he's the one that came back. As I told her downstairs, you weren't with us. He, he didn't go to enter the flying part of it but he made it a career. And he was the PS, PSA, PSA and T of the unit here. He was commander of the ROTC here,by being in the military, and I had a, I was flying a military plane, little small observation plane. And one day he said he'd like to go up, I said, okay, so, and I told him that I'm not wasn't going to do anything and try to scare him, you know, but one of the things we had to learn in flight school was how to spin. Cause if you if you actually get into a stall, and the plane goes into a spin, you got to know how to get out of it. Yeah, so we had to practice bends. So and it's violent mean, you you put it into a stall condition. And then you kick in a runner. So it, it actually starts to spin and you're sitting there going straight down. And he, he said, yeah, he'd like to do one. So he still talks about it. I scared him to death 'cause he said, yeah, he liked to do it. And then he realized how violent it was. But he still, he still lives here in Greenville. He still tells people I tried to scare the hell out of him. But anyway, that was, I got paid for it and it was a fun time. I stayed in the, in the in that about eight years.

DF: (25:43)
Okay, so.

JV: (25:45)
So I had I had, and I you know, we were in, we had to stay in reserves anyways, so I didn't have enough time to retire, but had a good, enjoy and enjoyed the military time.

DF: (26:00)
So you came down from Maine to join the Army Reserves after you got out of the Air Force. And yeah, pretty much

JV: (26:09)
Army National Guard

DF: (26:11)
came back to Greenville at that point.

JV: (26:12)
Well, it was in Raleigh. I was living here. And I would go to Raleigh for training, we had to go. We had to spend a weekend up there once a month, one weekend a month. And then, sort of, I got out of flying alltogether after that. So I had my I had my private license and an instrument license.

DF: (26:40)
So I think about that time, you had mentioned that you were you had been in communication with the former business director and he had offered you that position as the dorm director,

JV: (26:58)
He was the vice president at that time. See until the until the consolidation it was Presidents. They weren't chancellors at that time. And then when, when solidation came, then they were Chancellor's and Vice Chancellor's instead of Presidents.

DF: (27:21)
So you had been here in Greenville, and you had mentioned that you had to like, you weren't interested in the position and you had gone into private business was it or as a salesman?

JV: (27:39)
Well, I did right after I got out. But I didn't like selling and that's when I came. That's when he offered me the position of Director of purchasing. That's when I came back, so I was away from Greenville, three years in the Air Force. And then a year in Raleigh. Four years, I was away and came back home. Then I came back too because of the opportunity of working here and also it was coming back home. And my wife was also she was, she lived here, some. Her parents moved a little bit, but that's how we met when she was in high school.

DF: (28:22)
So I guess we're winding back. I'm just gonna ask um, you had met your at Rose high before you had graduated?

JV: (28:31)
Did you what?

DF: (28:33)
You had met your wife at Rose high, or future wife?

JV: (28:36)
Yeah, in high school. Greenville High School.

DF: (28:39)
and her parents were also-

JV: (28:41)
-they lived here and then they moved to Raleigh.

DF: (28:43)
Okay. And you had mentioned she had attended?

JV: (28:48)
St. Mary's Junior College in Raleigh.

DF: (28:51)
Okay. So you had been, like you had met in high school and you'd been in touch too?

JV: (28:56)
Yeah, and while for her two years, at St. Mary's, we still I was a student here and she was there but we, we dated back and you know, St. Mary's was very strict. I had to wear a tie anytime I went up to see her. So it was an Episcopal School. And I was an Episcopalian at that time. And I liked the formality. I enjoyed and she there was you didn't play around on I mean, it was no playing around on that campus. And they were they had they were very careful how they started them out. If they went downtown they had to wear gloves and be dressed properly. That was a nice school.

DF: (29:46)
You say compared to like East Carolina at the time they were more strict?

JV: (29:50)
Yeah, most of the schools were less strict and yeah.

DF: (29:56)
So just wanted to circle back to you had mentioned being a salesperson, I was just curious like, like, what kind of?

JV: (30:08)
I was selling office machines and I honestly did not like it.

DF: (30:14)
So it was kind of through like a company that?

JV: (30:17)
It was it would try it it back in those days, a lot of businesses did not have adding machines, believe it or not.

DF: (30:26)
So they did it all hand ledgers.

JV: (30:29)
Some of them do, we had even old manual, adding machines that we sold. And a lot of times businesses didn't have an ad machine, and we put a one on our arms to go out and call on individual businesses trying to get them to let us leave it for demonstrators so they would get used to it. And I just didn't like it. It was more pressure. I didn't like the pressure part of it. So and he had offered me the job down here and so I called him and he said, come on down. And so we we moved back here. That was beginning of my East Carolina career. And that's when this picture I started to work November the 2nd in '59. And this picture was made probably in January of 1960.

DF: (31:27)
So you were just starting out.

JV: (31:28)
I was about two months here. So I did have two months under Dr. Messick and then Dr. Jenkins and, and Dr. Brewer was bad. That was bad. And Dr. Howell were all chancellors and then Eakin, Eakin came and I was working, I worked on just a short time under Eakin. And then I retired and and I had always liked real estate. And so I co-founded the center 21 office here and stayed in that for about 20 years. And then just retired from that.

DF: (32:16)
Okay, let's see where I left off. So I think we covered a bit of this. So Oh, yeah. So when you had started here, working in the, I guess it would be business office. You'd also decided to go back to get your Masters in Business?

JV: (32:37)
Yeah, I did. I Started I did that right, shortly after I came to work.

DF: (32:43)
Was that just your choice to be like I need the more educational experience? Or was that something that they had suggested?

JV: (32:54)
Was it something I wanted to do, really, probably didn't. I don't know, that really helped me with my position. But it didn't, it didn't hurt to have it. So I did yeah, I'd always want once I got out graduate and got out in the world a little bit I wanted to get a masters and I did.

DF: (33:21)
So you started in the business office in '59. And your first job was um?

JV: (33:29)
Director of purchasing.

DF: (33:32)
Director of purchasing.

JV: (33:32)
And that was the first time that that office that was a job created because of the growth.

DF: (33:41)
Do you remember like your specific like, job duties as long more along the lines of like, day to day, what you're responsible for?

JV: (33:54)
Well, and in the purchasing everything that the university purchased. In fact books all of the books that the library would give a list of books. And then we would process the order. And the cafeteria, we had a cafeteria and the food was purchased through the office and any office materials in the new buildings, the furniture and all for new buildings. We would get the furnishing company, the furniture companies and so forth, to give us proposals. And then we would work with whoever was, like if it was sent to Mendenhall in Mendenhall student center. Then we would work with them and then decide on what they wanted and do the purchasing port. And then a lot of times, when furniture came in, I would go with, with the crews to make sure they put it in a proper place.

DF: (35:11)
At the time the university was, I think that'd be like early 60s That was really when it's starting to expand and grow. So I could imagine, just,

JV: (35:23)
we, when when I first started in the office supplies I was in I was in a administrators building, administration building. And we had a little small closet like, and actually we gave all of the supplies for the school, they can tie all the whole campus, they would come over and get it and we just it was, it was so small, but and then the school of nursing was created at that time. And they would they were starting out from scratch and they drained us. I used to, the Dean, the Dean of School of Nursing was Dr. Warren, Eva, Eva Warren. She used to get so much of materials, supplies that we had, that I called her evil Warren to her face. It was fun, and that was at they were in Graham building at that time.

DF: (36:33)
So that was just when they're starting out, too,

JV: (36:35)
Yeah. And then the school of business started out in Ragsdale. When when they that was the very beginning. They were in Ragsdale and Ragsdale at that time, during the hippie era. The, things changed people the students, the you know, the dress was very,

DF: (37:05)
I can imagine,

JV: (37:06)
Informal

DF: (37:08)
Culture change going into that time

JV: (37:10)
And they wanted to do their own. And we had we had a laundry and cafeteria. They didn't, they didn't use the laundry because they just weren't that clean. You know, it's basically what it was. And so they, they would not use the laundry. And so we had to close the laundry, and then the dorms, they did not want to live in the dorms. So we had to close Ragsdale as a dorm, and we closed part of Slay, just temporarily due to because the dorm, they were auxilary services, they depended on the income to for their survival. And we we closed Slay temporarily. And then Ragsdale actually ended up being part of the School of Business. So then we reopened the rest of Slay when it things eased up a little bit. But they didn't want to eat in the in the cafeteria. And we just literally closed the cafeteria and it was a nice building over here. Right, Well, not far from this building.

DF: (38:32)
Oh, yeah. Just over.

JV: (38:35)
And it was it became the soda shop also was in there, which was a real center of activity. You know, it was people would play cards in there and get knickknacks and right out right outside was some steps and we used to cumulate out there finding games, and then there were two clay tennis courts, right at would be right at the west end of the mall. Two clay clay tennis courts there and they are gone now. And then the tennis, tennis courts were built on the very eastern part of the campus where river the Rivers building is now and down in there and beyond and beyond training school.

DF: (39:31)
And that I think they've moved all the athletic stuff down. Yeah, that was think of

JV: (39:35)
in um, Christenbury.

DR: (39:41)
Yeah, Christenbury gym.

JV: (39:43)
Yeah, and then football field was back back behind where the School of Music and and, what's the other building? I've forgotten, that was named for doctor? Oh, I can't remember the name of the building. Anyway, the athletics were in that area. Yeah. Swimming pools in there. Basketball was played, actually, I don't know, are you familiar with Wright building, the history of Wright building?

DF: (40:13)
A little.

JV: (40:15)
You know, that was a that was-

DF: (40:17)
That was the auditorium

JV: (40:18)
That was a basketball court. Oh, and it had, it had a balcony, all around and limited seating beside the court just wasn't all that much room. But the balconies were and that was. And then down below was part of the athletics and some of the dressing rooms were down there. And then a student supply door was also down there. But then when one of the things that credit Dr. Brewer with and Rudolph Alexander, who was head of he was the director of Mendenhall. The Wright building was remodeled and made into the auditorium that is now that was one of the things that Dr. Brewer did push and Rudy Alexander had a big hand in getting converted over and that's a nice, nice for concerts.

DF: (41:23)
I haven't had a chance to like go in there yet.

JV: (41:27)
Well, they had the S Rudolph Alexander Fine Arts Series, and um, that concert, the concerts I still go to those through that series is still going strong. And they just the other day I went to a it was a birthday, but also a recognition for Rudy's contribution to East Carolina and what he had done for the series, and it was a nice dedication for him.

DF: (42:07)
Now that there have been a lot of like, faculty and staff members who've really like contributed to like, not just the growth of the school, but like lasting, like programs. Yeah. Come back just a little bit I was just kind of curious,

JV: (42:26)
Strayed off the beaten path with you but

DF: (42:29)
Oh, no, it's all right no it's fascinating hearing about like, how the school was because I have this like image at the time of like, you know, like hippies, and like, I guess that'd be a little bit before like, when my dad went to college, but like, now's the time, when you had like that whole generation of like, I guess baby boomers are coming into college, you see, like, a lot of schools just around the country that are really growing and to hear like, like, with all those new students like still like having to close down like dorms and then not using the laundry and other stuff that students had been using before. It's just really like, I would have never known.

JV: (43:18)
And also one of the things in that map, that the other map. The campus had a power plant, and supplied all of that power for the campus. We didn't, at that time did not get any electricity from the city. And it was it was fueled by coal. And that's when I was involved with purchasing also, and on that, photo, on that picture that you have the map, and I can I was looking at what I took the picture I took this morning. You can actually see where a railroad spur came off of the rail, you know, the railroad that's over by Minges. Yeah, the spur you can still see it in that picture that's made in 1963, where that spur came in, and came to the power plant. And I remember a lot of times if it was cold it was, it was real, real fine. It wasn't lots of coal and the power plants. That's one thing that fueled the power plant and also furnish steam for the older buildings. And sometimes if there was bad weather or something, say in West Virginia. Sometimes we would get antsy a little bit whether the coal was going to come and be able to get in here. So we had some times that were really a little bit scary because of that. But that coal load, they had coal cars, a couple of coal cars could was right beside where they were the power plant was. And then there was a smokestack, tremendous smokestack right there by the power plant. And that was that was torn down also.

DF: (45:37)
That's something that, I guess, more so today that we take for granted, just having like, oh, the power is on just like comes from utilities, but it's like having to actually coordinate with the railroad and the coal companies to make sure everything was on time. So

JV: (45:56)
Well what happened though the the, with the growth of the campus, the the power plant didn't have the capacity to furnace the the steam and electricity for the whole campus. So that's when we joined in with Greenville utilities. And also a steam plant was built across 14th Street. I don't know if you know where that they're back there. Well, they generate the steam for that campus.

DF: (46:34)
They're still operating. As far as I'm aware. There's just another thing that like, how things have changed so much.

JV: (46:43)
Yeah.

DF: (46:47)
Let's see. So just moving on in your career at ECU, he was starting, you had started off as the purchasing director, then you had moved up into

JV: (47:02)
I started off as purchasing director, and then became business manager.

DF: (47:09)
That was what year again?

JV: (47:12)
I changed in 1970. I went from purchasing to business manager in 1970. When, when Cliff Moore became he replaced Mr. Duncan as Vice President for Business. And then I took Cliff's position when Mr. Duncan retired. And that and that was I still was in that position when I retired. Okay,

DF: (47:45)
So you had stayed as-

JV: (47:47)
And now the dorm, the aux- some of the auxiliaries came onto my office, the dorms operations, not the, not the, the student activity, but the physical part, the all the communications came on to my office. And and we had a, we bought the first when when the telephones were restricted to no private and before your day, telephones were controlled by the government. And no, there was no private telephone companies. And then when that was changed, we bought the first telephone system, that Carolina Tel at that time is whatever now, like

DF: (48:42)
sprint or something that one those big companies, I think, once sprint, well,

JV: (48:48)
Sprint came in later, that was later, Carolina Tel was the telephone company. And we bought the very first equipment that was possible to buy. And, and it was a system, the whole campus came under this new system. And we had to we had to educate everybody how to use the new system, because it was so completely different than what we had before. And we had we had classes for them. And one of the one of the advantages was the (oh god what am i trying to think of) where you have two or three on the line, I can't think-

DF: (49:47)
Oh like a conference call.

JV: (49:48)
Ye ah, conference. And that was that was one of the advantages. So instead of having a having a meeting, you could have conference, you know, to do it and so. It was funny the guy that I was telling you that was so good friend of mine who was in the Air Force that he was a university. He had become the University attorney. And Dr. Howell was chancellor at that time. And this guy, he was he and I were very good friends, but he liked to yap, he would yap, yap, yap yap, you know. And one day after he knew that, we were had this capability of conference communication with others. He called me one day, no, I called him. And he just started yapping just yapping away. And after a while, I said, Dave, I have Dr. Howell on the line with us, and clickup. We laughed about that for a long time though. It was funny, but that was that was the beginning of the real telephone system. And then we had a, had hired a person for maintaining all of the communication equipment. And we put, we put telephones in all the dorm rooms. That was something we did that was a that was a real plus factor. And this was before computers, the first computer on the campus.

DF: (51:27)
Imagine how big that was.

JV: (51:29)
Big, big over in Rawl building. And it had to be had had to have it a certain distance off the floor. And the the rooms had to be kept in a certain temperature and humidity. But that was that was the first commuter, computer on the campus. That was I've forgotten what year that was, but it was way back.

DF: (51:54)
So like 60s, early 70s maybe?

JV: (51:58)
Probably it was probably in early 70s or something like that. But that was a, that was a computer for the whole campus. It was a it was a monstrosity took up a whole classroom.

DF: (52:14)
Oh wow, that's seeing like, I guess the first computer on campus and then like, kind of the first like phone network with phones and every office and every dorm room.

JV: (52:31)
And then then they the Internet came and you know that every office had its own little computer and drastic change.

DF: (52:44)
I think it could be, it'd be I guess in the 90s when they got the whole campus on fiber optic. I'd heard about that. And I know like that was part of like, the big push with the library to to kind of like, update their whole kind of way of doing things to say. Yeah, it's just kind of curious like, perceiving, like all those like changes in your like, job. How was that like, just seeing like, campus going from like, you'd starting off here like, as an elementary school student and then progressing all the way to like when you are the business director of that.

JV: (53:36)
I never progressed very much. It was fun, I started, I started 1938 as a training school, then see the war came. And that impacted a lot on campus. And then after the war, the via the lot of the East Carolina up until then had been primarily a girl school. It was it was some men, but it was a majority was girls. And then when the war was over, and the GI Bill came into play. That's when the influx of men came to the campus.

DF: (54:25)
And you were a part of that.

JV: (54:26)
Well, I was I was not no I was not. I wasn't old enough to be in the military during the war. But I was working over here when that big the GI Bill came. And that was sort of a that was sort of a major change in East Carolina's history and function also

DF: (54:50)
Going from the teacher school to like a college or university.

JV: (54:54)
Well then that happened when the consolidation came

DF: (55:03)
Do you remember anything like? Because you, I guess, adjacent to administration at the time, I'm not really sure how the business office like, organizationally fit into the whole like Office of-

JV: (55:20)
Well we had, we had the, like, say mr. Duncan was in charge of the business park. And everything pertaining to the, to the operation of the campus came onto the business department. And no one involved in academics. But academics weren't involved in the business party. But so that was, that was a separate division. And the Cashiers Office was came under my office when I was business manager. And we were in Spillman or Spillman building, an administration building were the same. And the cashiers office was in there. And my office was in there for my whole, the whole term here was in that building. And see the chancellor, Dr. Jenkins, was in there for all of his years. In fact, during the last 17 years, my office is right down the hall from his.

DF: (56:25)
So you could just like walk by him?

JV: (56:28)
Well, he wasn't bad, let me let me just go off course here. Leo Jenkins was a wonderful administrator. He, he also had become a good friend, his his, one of his sons, and one of my sons were very close friends. I was in I was really active in the Jaycees. And he liked the Jaycees. And he, there was a friendship there but he was in charge. But he was easy to deal with. And I didn't have any Vice Chancellors, or chair vice president are the ones that answered to him. But I didn't know enough about him but he he was an excellent administrator. And he gave his Vice Presidents or Vice Chancellors, responsibilities. And but he also gave them the the authority. But his big thing, I don't want any surprises. And he meant he meant it. But he did not micromanage the business office. He did not stick his finger in the operation of it. But the Vice President or Vice Chancellor answer to him. And and so that's the way it was with Academic Vice Chancellors too same same way. But he was, I think he was one of the best administrators I've ever seen. I've quoted that a lot of times to people out in the, in the business world, sometimes they get into these upper jobs, and they've got to stick their nose down. And instead of letting the authority letting the person have it, and he, he did that, but he didn't he did not want any surprises. And so people work and he, he was very likable. He was friendly. His office was primarily open most of the time if anybody really needed see him. So that was a plus factor for me. One of the that's one of the things I've put in here that that was one of the highlights of my employment here was having been able to operate under him.

DF: (58:56)
Because you had seen a few more Chancellor's and he was president then chancellor and then to Chancellor's after him. So

JV: (59:06)
Now doctor, Dr. Brewer came in and he he had did a lot of changing that were disruptive

DF: (59:21)
That seems to be where like someone new comes in this like I'm gonna change everything.

JV: (59:26)
Yeah, he changed it. He he fixed a lot of things that weren't broken is what it boiled down to. And I can say that because I lived with it in his office was still when he took Dr. Jenkins office was still right down the hall from mine, but he just he caused a lot of problems with the morale and it and he didn't stay very long.

DF: (59:54)
I think he was only here for a couple, three, three years

JV: (59:58)
And then then Dr. Howell took over as, as sort of an interim position. And I think Dr. Eakin, I believe, believe Eakin came behind Howell.

DF: (1:00:10)
You can say Jenkins was the best boss to work for.

JV: (1:00:16)
He was he was he just a nice guy, tell you a little story on when he would. He made a lot of speeches. And-

DF: (1:00:30)
We have a lot of his speeches-

JV: (1:00:32)
He um, he likes that he enjoyed the Jaycees and I was I was president of Greenville Jaycees. But I also had had my pilot's license. Well, he one of the, one of the guys here, Wally Howard was president of Wachovia. And he had a plane and sometimes he would take Dr. Jenkins, home for some of his speeches. And if it was at night, he would a lot of times want me to go along. He said, he said, I believe if something happened in the daytime, I could possibly land the plane but at night, I might not. And we went to he was to go to a Jaycee meeting up in Salisbury up in the middle part of the state to and he was to give what the Jaycees always have their honor person each year. And it's a big, it's a big deal. And he was to do that and so I flew up with him. And I, they we had a we had a boy's home football game. It was east- the big one in North Carolina had been east and west-we decided, the Jaycees decided to have a north south pole boys home in Lake Waccamaw. And so I was chairman of that also. And that was a state. It was a state project. All the Jaycees in the whole state where it was it was a state project. So Dr. Jenkins was asked to go up there to do this award. And when we got up there, he had forgotten his glasses. And when the guy and it was, the room was not real wide anyway. And it was small print. And when the guy told him what he wanted him to do and gave him the presentation, Dr. Jenkins, he said, Okay, so he, he, when the time came to make a presentation, he told the group that he had brought me as the state chairmen of that football game he had brought me up there. And he wanted me to do the presentation. And those people never knew. He was he and he I used to kid him about if you heard one of his speeches, you've heard all of them. Cause he kept, he kept just a note in his pocket. Just to sort of remind him what he was gonna say. And he used that speech all over and you talk about somebody. Now he would stretch things for the benefit of East Carolina. After after, he had retired and I'd retired. I used to kid him about that. How he how he did and but he was that way and but that that one, one instance was funny to me because the people out there never knew that, that I wasn't the person chosen to make that presentation. But he was he was just a good guy. He was he really was good. Good Chancellor. So he was he was good for East Carolina. His shoes will never be filled. I will say that and believe it strongly.

DF: (1:04:19)
Imagine just being able to like be around at that time when he is Chancellor and to work under him and have those personal experiences.

JV: (1:04:31)
And you've probably heard also, he was the forwarding force of the med school. But he fought for that. And it was a it was a terrible fight here we were, we were told that you know the that nobody is down here North Carolina, Eastern North Carolina and Piedmont and Chapel Hill and all up in that area fought him tooth and nail and one of the newspapers use they the day would run cartoons, you've seen some of those.

DF: (1:05:05)
I've seen some of those well, a bit nasty.

JV: (1:05:09)
He, his house, you know, was the Chancellors home which was right across the campus, you know, it's not, it's not active now but that was a, he used to he had those cartoons. And he had them all in frames on the wall, he had plastered the wall with them. And he used to love if you had some kind of cocktail group or whatever, he would love to take people down there and show 'em those cartoons of him when he was trying to get to med school. But he, he was that way when he he was tenacious and and fought to the powers that be up in the western part of the state and got the med school here. So he was he was really the father of med school, East Carolina.

DF: (1:06:00)
I've seen least some of the history and then I've seen some of the cartoons too. And it did turn out to be quite the political battle. And it did work out for East Carolina, I think because he had that like, magnetism that would allow like, everyone else around him to kind of like, succeed. But um, was there like anything with med school like that the business was like did y'all have like a part in to play in, like in the med school?

JV: (1:06:37)
It was part of yeah, but they they sort of became a little bit independent, and, like, on their own to a great degree. They had their Director of Admissions and so forth. But they were still, the med students. Were still a part of the East Carolina School, and the tuition and everything they can yeah, it was through the Cashiers Office, just like the rest of the school, but they had their own admissions officer. And so it was it was independent to a great degree.

DF: (1:07:21)
Especially during that time, when it changed over to the university in the consolidated system. Did that like impact? Have any impact on your department?

JV: (1:07:35)
Well, I think it probably most of us didn't like it because we were losing our independence. But gradually, it sort of worked okay. It did to begin with, we hated to lose the independence that we had had. But yeah, it I think advantages came out and most people now I think, except it was a natural thing.

DF: (1:08:11)
Yeah, I think because it was the UNC system, and then the independent colleges. And then I think, at some point, they had combined everyone under the UNC like system, and then that was when they changed from the Chancellor's to the President.

JV: (1:08:35)
Now, there's 16 schools under their umbrella. Whereas, whereas initially, it was three, Chapel Hill, Women's College [now UNC-Greensboro], and NC State. They were the three parts of the university system at that time. And then they took in the other 13 schools.

DF: (1:09:03)
So you just like seeing the transformation, at least, for me, it would be like, going from this, like teachers school to like, what is now as that's gotta be like, seeing the evolution like how, like, what's your take on that? Like? I'm just like, seeing the school go from this small, like, Teacher's College all the way to like a major university and being like involved in it along the way.

JV: (1:09:33)
Well, it's just been interesting. To say the least. Yeah. It was. Well, things have changed quite a bit, you know from and the growth just like the library, excuse me, was in Whichard building. And that was that was the library. And now look, this is just no, absolutely no comparison. And the one thing that if one thing that I lay claim to that I'm be proud of, is the print shop. The print, we did not have any print, the only printing service at all was Wendell Smiley, who was director of the library had a little place downstairs, and he had a mimeograph machine but he also had a oh, God, it's an offset printer that's probably before your time. But an offset printer was an outgrowth of the mimeograph. And it was it was much cleaner and easier to work. And he had a couple of those down here. But we had to have all of our printing done outside and I knew that the I sometimes that they were probably able to take advantage and I saw that. I felt like we needed a print shop and so I convinced my boss at that time Cliff Moore to see if we could get a print shop so he agreed with me and we didn't have any any budget. It wasn't anything that was approved at Chapel Hill or any other place but what what we did was use the the Y-hut because it was not used for the purpose that it was really designed for. As Young Women's Christian is what the Y-hut was at one time and it was right off there it was between the library and the infirmary. And so we got permission to use that. And so we took we got Smiley's offset machine and then over in the business, they had one. And the way we set it up, we the auxilary's, all of the auxilary's were like dorms and infirmary and things like that. We they had, they had budgets, and what what we would do is borrow money from the auxilary. Students supply store was one of them. We would borrow money from them to go over here so we could set up a print shop. And and so we did and it was set up very basically, we were able to hire a real talented person as a manager, he was a retired US retired Marine named Ray Davis. And he we got we absconded these offset machines. And so that was his beginning in the beginning with the print shop over in the Y-hut shop. And he and the the department sort of fought us on it. They liked the idea of being able to go down to the downtown and do their thing. So we we did it had had it stipulated that all the printing would would have to come through here. Unless it was something unusual. The typical printing would come through the print shop. And there were charges they, instead of the charge from the departments the going to the outside printer, they came into here. So I never will forget my boss, Cliff Moore, he used to ask me, when are we gonna get out of the red?. And we got I remember one time we were $52,000 in the red that we owed these auxiliary departments. And Ray was he was he was the most talented person along that line I've ever seen. And he he developed a rapport with the faculty people and they saw what he could do with what we had and he was able to buy another piece of equipment from time to time, and that and that's why that, you know, where the big whatever they call it, the printing services now out on 10th Street. And that's the outgrowth of the way we started here. But that was, that was my thing. I'll take credit for the beginning of it. And to seeing the need for it and Cliff cooperated with me. But he didn't really give me a lot of support other than letting me do letting me borrow this money from auxilary's. And that's the way it started. It didn't have any budget or anything. So that was the beginning of the print shop.

DF: (1:15:48)
That's impressive.

JV: (1:15:50)
Well I take great pride in that because it's, it's a, they are very well equipped now and can do so much out there. And they were after they outgrew the, the Y-hut. And then they were in the basement of the old cafeteria building right across the street over here. They were in that basement. And so it kept growing. But that was that was what I take more pride in that than any other thing that that I was able to do.

DF: (1:16:29)
Do you remember what year that was? Specifically?

JV: (1:16:31)
That started about 19, about 1971? 71 or 72. prob, probably 71.

DF: (1:16:41)
So they've been going strong for 50 years.

JV: (1:16:44)
But he would, Ray was such a talented person, he could somebody I could tell him Ray, we need to be like this, we need to we need to have something like this. And he could sketch it out in no time. And say, how about this and you know, it was just it was amazing. He had that talent. And then when when the faculty realized what he could do and they then decided you know, that we had a good thing going on. So then they were they cooperated with it. So now I'm sure all of the printing on this campus within that capability goes through there.

DF: (1:17:28)
I know we use them over here a bunch for our posters. All thanks to you. We appreciate you.

JV: (1:17:35)
Well, and and Wendell Smiley. That was his thing. He really liked to have that capability of that offset machine down there. And he didn't really like it when we told him we're going to use this in the print shop. And then he he finally saw the advantage of it. But he fought me on that to begin with. We got it. And the telephone system was over here. Well, it still is, the operator. But I still remember the number. University number every once awhile I'll call over here and talk to the operator. Get us somebody I don't know who they are. But that that was that was something I do take pride in that print shop cause I was - Cliff I was afraid that he was just gonna get rid of me honestly. Because he was so concerned about it and rightfully so. And it just took a long time to to get it so that that was in the red instead of in a black and but it was it was a good experience. I'm glad we had. I don't know, let's see if there's anything else I've got on my list that I jotted some points. Let me see, way back when there was a lake, you probably know about the you probably are or have heard about right right behind arboretum right behind, you know, Arboretum. That was that was actually a lake when I was a young student. And a student bank. We had a student bank in the

DF: (1:19:28)
I had not heard about that.

JV: (1:19:29)
Yeah. And then it was just strictly primarily for cash and checks for students. It was in it was in Mendenhall students.

DF: (1:19:38)
Was that part of the business kind of?

JV: (1:19:42)
Yeah, It was not, it wasn't like a commercial bank. Just primarily for cash and student check for students and they can make deposits and then draw from it but that was and then the we had the post office and the post office was was in the cafeteria building right at the very entrance there. And it was primarily they sold stamps. And they just at that time, the students had boxes. But this was a long time ago. And we finally got rid of that.

DF: (1:20:22)
I think at some point, there's just too many students to have their own separate mailboxes.

JV: (1:20:27)
One time, one time they this person that was in charge of the student bank, what she was, she was, she could be sort of heavy at times, you know, the wording and so forth. And one, then there was she had a person that worked with her. And then one day, they, they, I got a telephone call that I needed to go to Student bank. And I went over there, and the two of them had gone in to one of the areas where the money was, and it was as good go into it just as using it. And it had a door that had the bars and all of those, and they got in there and got locked in. And that was the funniest thing in the world when I had the key. And I went over there, and the two of them were there. And I didn't have evidence before the days of cameras like this, but I would give anything, I could have gotten him, it just floored her to think she had made such a mistake like that. And I had to go over and bail her out. Well, that was just a novelty thing. And I'll tell you another thing that I did that. I was this, the cashiers office was right across the hall from me. And we had a head cashier, but also I knew what was going on. And they had we had three cashiers in there. And they they were they were ladies that enjoyed the students, but they also enjoyed themselves. And they would be talking among themselves and not paying as much attention to the students as they could, not being rude to them. But just taking them in essence taking them for granted. And I'd get complaints sometimes about it. So I got a print shop to print three posters. And it said students are our business. And I put one of those in the wall on the wall behind each cashier. I never had another student complaint. And I've oh, I'm a I'm a PR nut now I just believe in public relations and anybody working. And that was one thing it always remember that. But it they got the they got the idea. And they knew that that student was looking at that sign. And it just it changed their attitude completely. Anyway, that was one thing later, probably like it was funny. But anything else

I'm going to bring out, I'll get that big picture. Oh, let me see if I can get see,

DF: (1:23:47)
I guess moving away, at least from the college. I was just curious how you've been involved, like outside the campus and like the local Greenville community?

JV: (1:24:01)
Well, I was I was president of the Jaycees and we were like a service group to the city. And I was on the salvation. I've been a member of Salvation Army for about 50 years. I'm a that we have to two people that are life, considered life members. And I'm life member of the Salvation Army. And the Jaycees I did, after I sorta got burned out and I didn't join another civic organization. I just didn't. I was raised in a family and I just didn't. I was still supportive of Greenville and everything, but I didn't have any one mayor or anything like that.

DF: (1:24:54)
When you were president of the Jaycees, do you remember what years those are?

JV: (1:25:03)
I remember I aged, in the Jaycees you age out at 35. You just have to go. And I aged out in 67 I think, so early 60s.

DF: (1:25:21)
So they're more of like a civic group for younger.

JV: (1:25:25)
This is I was looking down on that that is

DF: (1:25:29)
oh wow that we definitely do not have that in the collections.

JV: (1:25:33)
That picture is-

DF: (1:25:35)
You can see the dorms too

JV: (1:25:37)
See yeah you can, I can see where that spur from the railroad comes, came in. And that all of the campus and it goes from the river all the way all the way out back to where the tower. It's it's fairly detailed so all all of the campus so in fact, I had that picture hanging in my office the whole time. I don't know I doubt if you all have that in the archives.

DF: (1:26:15)
No, I know we don't.

JV: (1:26:17)
Because the original the way it originated. And the guy just that person that flew the plane where they made the made the pictures he was all he was just a pilot but he was in the Guard with me and knew that I was you know in East Carolina and so he gave me that picture and it it's it is a very deep you can see I can see on it where the old stadium what we would like those lines we saw the football field. I can see that on on that picture. Where those stands and

DF: (1:27:01)
you can get like a full view of campus from that.

JV: (1:27:05)
If you you can enlarge when you get it right in this this is the stadium and that is the the temporary stand bleachers that came from football enlarge it a little bit yes.

DF: (1:27:23)
The detail on this is pretty amazing.

JV: (1:27:26)
And that was that was the pic the, this picture was made in 1963. So that was about that, about that, that stadium had just been built. And also going back to the Jaycees we had the boys boys home bowl game was the first football game that was played at Stadium.

DF: (1:27:53)
My exhibit I made a mention of like the first football game.

JV: (1:27:56)
Yeah everybody, everybody thinks that it was the East Carolina-Wake Forest game and that was a first college game but I was chairman of the of the that.

DF: (1:28:12)
I found the newspaper article about it didn't mention you but like it is like really cool to actually be like so your the chairman at the time that it said that whole thing.

JV: (1:28:22)
But see Leo was so partial he liked the JC the the um, Jaycees and we were able to get him to agree to that game being played there. That's how it happened.

DF: (1:28:35)
I know he had big plans for this stadium. Yeah, like I remember finding a quote he said we want to get up to 50,000 They're there now. Yeah, yeah.

JV: (1:28:49)
Well, I don't know. Anything else that I'm rambling too much for y'all.

DF:(1:28:56)
This has been really

JV:(1:28:58)
but you know your ask your questions here. And then another thing too. I have two sons. They both graduated here. Their wives graduated from here. One of them has has two daughters they graduated from here. Are you familiar with coastal fog downtown. Have you ever heard of coastal fog it's a lights it she started out as a interior design and then I have a meals and then the students can go in and and tune in you know to the internet. Anyway, the two grand my two granddaughters have that Oh, and the the other son has one son it's due to the to the two girls one one of the husband was a student got his MBA, went to med school here did his residency here. And now he is a moles doctor, he you know what the moles treatment is? That's when you have like a mole or something. And they had this suspect it might be something else, and they go in and dig a little more and biopsy it. And if it's clear, they stop if not, they keep going. And he's he's one of two doctors in Eastern North Carolina that does that. So but he got his is received his undergraduate at MBA, his medical school and his residency all right here so and the other one, the other one went to Chapel Hill to to undergraduate. But he did went to med school here. So East Carolina's right much in my family.

DF:(1:31:05)
From starting out here at the school for the elementary school students to now having grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

JV:(1:31:17)
Is there a restroom close by here?

DF:(1:31:21)
I'll go ahead and pause the recording. I think actually we're pretty much done. If you had anything else to add?

JV:(1:31:27)
No, I think we've covered it.

DF:(1:31:31)
Thank you very much for coming.

JV:(1:31:32)
Ok I would like to use the restroom.

DF:(1:31:34)
We'll go ahead and stop here.

[End of Recording]

*East Carolina joined the UNC System in 1967, and its name changed to East Carolina University.
**East Carolina's enrollment for the 2023-2024 academic year was 26,785.