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Well, now we've gone on to that era in which the World War number two developed. And things began to get really critical and war was declared. The the first thing that happened was reserved officers were called up to duty. There were four physicians in Tarboro, who were members of the reserve, two Army Reserve and two Naval Reserves. And immediately after the declaration of war, these four men were called to duty. I think there were only about eight practicing physicians in Tarboro at that time. And you can just imagine what happened when four of them was suddenly snatched away from the area and put into uniform. Well, Dr. W.W. Green, the surgeon, the chief surgeon at Edgecombe General Hospital, was a veteran of World War One. And of course, when the draft board was set up, he was appointed as a general draft board. And when they snatched off the health officer physician who had a health office in this county, when he snatched him up Dr. William took over the job as the county health officer with his hands full, they only practiced surgery in the town. He had a little if any time to devote to the position of health officer. Now shortly after I came to Tarboro, they had the state had developed a program of maternity and infant welfare clinics. Naturally, when I got to town, I was asked to participate in a program and I readily agreed to do so. At that time, I

[2:09]
have conducted I believe one clinic a month, not more than two clinics.

[2:16]
Now most of the clinics were the health department offices, which were located on the second floor of the county courthouse. These clinics were conducted by the health officer right in his office. But they asked me to conduct the clinics in the in the different sections of the county. We had makeshift facilities in which to conduct the clinics. Well the kind of nursing, the health nurse in charge would deal with our supplies and equipment, all packed up in three or four suitcases. I think the clinics were held on Tuesdays and Thursdays, either Tuesday or Thursday. Now as to where these clinics were held, some of them were held in school buildings. This really, this clinic really was conducted for you know, more or less strictly for black people. Back when, if the if the country school boasted of a room it could be designated as a library. The clinics were held in that room. It was usually a plain

[3:29]
table, wooden table it could be great for the sheet and a pillow was put on that as a pillow slip. And some of yours sometimes I would bring out my portable gynecologic examining table

[3:50]
equipment which consisted of a pair of sterns that could be mounted on a table so that we can examine do vaginal examinations anywhere. The best facilities we found were at the schools as I mentioned just a moment ago. However two clinics, two of our outlying maternity and infant welfare clinics were held in the homes of midwives. Remember this about this time about 70% of the deliveries, especially with poor people, poor people were number of midwives. And this state of North Carolina was making the effort to cut down the morbidity and mortality of infants and the mothers by at least teaching the midwives a fundamental relative to their duties in delivering women under adverse circumstances. I know we had one a clinic that was here in a townhouse of which one of the old midwives about 80 at that time, Miss Sue Pender lived. Ms. Sue Pender was a midwife who had she delivered she counted up in the 1000s of children that she had delivered babies that she had delivered during her career as a midwife. We had several public health nurses there were three or four or five different duties in the health department. But now, the one notable, nurse that I would remember most vividly is Mrs. Carter. At that day and time, white nurses were designated as Miss Miss Mrs. So and so, but the black nurses were designated as Nurse Smith and Nurse Jones and in this case was Nurse Carter. Nurse Carter was about 60 years of age at that time, she had done a lot of public health works in Mississippi and Alabama and even abroad. And she had taken over this job as public health nurse in North Carolina, and she was pretty well grounded on the fundamentals of Midwifery, midwifery, midwifery and the adverse conditions in in that she had set up these clinics had been instrumental in setting up these clinics in the in the Deep South and in some foreign country, I believe was Italy, that she worked for a time and worked in Italy for a time. Anyway, she was instrumental in setting up these clinics and making suggestions that were followed by the health officers and trying to help in a very difficult situation. We didn't do many vaginal examinations at the outlying clinics, but when we found absolutely necessary, we were able to do so because we had sterile grates, we had sterile gloves and whatnots in order to do mostly when I got to clinic, about 25 to 50 expectant women had been checked, their urine had been checked for albumin and sugar, the routine questions had been asked them relative to dizziness, headache, swelling of the extremities, extreme thirst and low abdominal pain, restlessness restlessness of the fetus etc etc. The history information was placed before me in a exam of patient check the backgrounds and blood pressure and whatnot and made recommendations as to the proper treatment and made appointment for the next visit. If I found that there will be some difficulty in delivery, I made recommendations as to the type of delivery that should be carried out in each case, we leave we leave it on the adverse circumstances difficult encounter many difficulties. By the time we go to place it will be cold. In the tenant house, especially, they didn't have a space heater all the heat we had during the winter months was furnished by the fireplace with some big burning logs in the fireplace. The water was drawn from a well out in the backyard there, the well seemed to be about 30 feet, between 20 and 30 feet deep. And I imagine they had a lot of surface water and I never would drink the water and we would have the nurses bottle water that everybody used for checking the patient's. I'll tell you what happened about that particular house, that tenant house. The house was rundown. And the midwife was semi illiterate. Under the circumstances she did a very good job. But after about six or seven years in the area, you know, I decided to I had been among farmers so much and had a chance to buy some property, buy a farm. I wanted to get close to the farmer, I identified myself with their problems and whatnot. And I had a chance to buy a farm. What's wrong with you saying that you weren't in that boat question? The farm I bought was the very farm that along with this tenant's house were located where held was maternity and infant welfare clinics. And the midwife was still living there. And when I went out to miss Sue I said well miss Sue, I was able to buy this farm. I hope you're still on with us. She said well doc I'm glad you bought the farm. So now I've been asking the man that owned this farm for 15 years to dig me another well. And I want you to dig me another well right now. I said miss Sue wait a minute here, hold on a minute. I said now you asked the farm owner of the farm you asking him for 15 years to dig you a well, to fix it up right? And he didn't do it in 15 years now you demand that I fix it up right away. So don't you think that's a little bit? A little bit out of line. At least you waited 15 years you stayed here and the only thing you did was yack once or twice about the well, but you demand that I fix it right away. Well he didn't fix it and I want it fixed right away. It got frogs in it. I say Well, honey, you had frogs in your well for all these years. Now don't come try and push me around because if you do, I will push you right out this damn house. I didn't have any more trouble with miss Sue then. In due time I got around to digging her another wheel. Okay, I've dug deep well. About 60 feet deep. Had a case and put in the wheel so the little surface water would seep in and put a pump in so she could draw water very easily wouldn't have to stick a bucket down in the dirty water. And what have it, I ordered her son in law who live there with her to fill up the old well not to have as it was just in the back of the house. It was dangerous for the kids and every now and then a chicken would fall in and get [Inaudible] too. So after I dug the well, a deep well so that certain water could get in, had the water tested for purity. I said now to Sue to her son in law, I want you to fill that old well up please and do you know the damn that they'd fold like hell, raise hell trying to keep from filling up the old well, despite the fact that she actively wanted a new well right away in spite of the fact that I went to the expensive of digging her a good well and sanitary well. They raised hell because they didn't want to say that old well she could use the water for washing clothes and whatnot. In the meantime to raise hell then, I made her fill that old well up but just the attitude that some folks would take that's just a little sideline to the type of people we had to deal with. And I heard some very odd methods of cleaning things out there too. One lady came in, she brought in a little child about 18 months old, she says that the child with having trouble cutting teeth. The gums are swollen. I looked at the child I'll tell you what his most grievous was pain from the erection of teeth. But miss Sue had a remedy right on the end of her [Inaudible] she said now you want that child to cut them teeth better. Said you take five needle string five needles on a pieces, free it and make a necklace and put it on the child. Them sharp needles will help to cut the teeth. I chuckled about things and she said now you don't believe but that's the way it works. You doctors think you know everything, but we know something. So you know, one lady said she had trouble with a child learn to talk, miss Sue had a quick remedy for that. She said now you get yourself a [Inaudible] egg. And you write the name of the child on a [Inaudible] egg as many times as you can put the [Inaudible] egg up over the door. And you take the child in and out that door three or four times every day. And the child will stop stuttering and learn to talk right away. Some examples of what we had to run into here. Now. Now that was a midwife talking.

[13:49]
But that's the best we had in that day and time. And it's remarkable that people got along as well as they did. But as I've mentioned already, in this discourse. It seems though that people in this area had germs all about them but they've learned to live in symbiotic relationship with their own germs. As long as they weren't exposed to somebody else's germs, they never developed an infection. For anybody that's the way it looks to me. We had some other little things to happened. For instance, we had a clinic at a school. And in order to get to the school, we had to cross a river there was bridge that crossed this river that just had the space enough for one vehicle be it a wagon, or truck, or cart to go across time, one at a time. Now I finished my work at the clinic and was on the way back home after packing up. And I came through the bridge up behind a two horse wagon that had about six pregnant women in it and the wagon had gotten about midway the bridge when a car drove up on the other side and the good brother. He was Caucasian. And was it was obviously everybody that he was in his chips. You know, midway the bridge and the mules were pulling the wagon and began to hit around and back up and act up. They became frightened and the Caucasian stopped his car and said Hey nigga I want to go across this bridge now you back that wagon off so I can get across and the man said captain I'm sorry but I can't get these mules off here, he said wouldn't be easier for you to back your car? He said I ain't backing my car adamn bit so you get them mules off here. By that time I came up on behind the wagon to see what's the trouble. And old fellow right away said this man. Well, this man said I got the back and mules off here and I can't back them off here this bridge here they may run to one side or the other they're about to panic and run away anyway, what am I gonna do? I went around to the front of the wagon and I told the gentlemen in adverse if the wagon was halfway across the bridge when he drew upon it seems as he should be the one to back off and let the wagon go by. He said he wouldn't back up a damn bit. And I just took his car number and I said, Well, I knew this would be happening town in town it was now I want to give you a chance right now to back your car off. Otherwise, I'm gonna report this incident. And I'm gonna report the fact that you drunk well then he had no trouble, backed off and went on back. Poor women, I was afraid we would panic and throw them off the wagon or whatnot. But we hadn't no trouble after I found the gentleman in no uncertain terms. It wouldn't stand for that. Mr. Whole matter would be taken to court. He backed off everything went on alright then. Oh, another brief mention or reference to Nurse Carter you noticed I said Nurse Carter. Back in those days it was customary to and I've already said it, I think I said it but I won't be sure I have it in here. It was customary for the white nurses to be addressed as Miss Jones and Miss Smith and Mrs. Jones. But when it came to black nurses, they referred to not as Ms. or Mrs. but a Nurse Smith and Nurse Jones. This venerable old nurse, served after all these years she was still referred to as Nurse Carter. And it goes without saying that there was a difference in the salaries too. White nurses got decent salaries. But the black nurses were expected to work for less money and do more work for less money, that's the way it was that day and time. You know, as I mentioned before, already mentioned the health officer conducted most of these maternity and infant welfare clinics especially those in town, and those were the clinics that were attended by the poor whites who had to depend on midwives to deliver them. Well see now these folks I saw were left in a, little sort of bad predicament after the health officer had gone and there weren't any way white doctor to conduct a maternity and infant welfare clinic. But so Nurse Carter that she was called Mrs. Carter, would inform these white patients when they came in that I was conducting the clinic that day but and if they decided they didn't want me to see them, it'd be alright for them to go she would take the blood pressure and check the urine and, and show me the record and if they saw anything where they needed to be referred to for further examination, I would give them a note to go to that local physician or somebody else some white physician to give them these examinations. I understood I understand from Nurse Carter that they wanted two white patients who asked to be sent elsewhere. Of course when I went to see these white patients, they seem to be rather at ease and the beginning at first so I put them at ease. You know just made them feel better as if one joking and talking to them just as I talked to the black ones and everything went along all right.

[19:35]
It goes without saying that the physicians left in this area had to work day and night.

[19:50]
My office hours started 9 o'clock in the morning ended 11:30 or 12 o'clock at night. I don't think I made a lot of money because most people didn't have any money anyway. And it was, all this stuff was referred to the fall. They were sharecroppers, you know, Doc, if I make the money, you know, you're gonna get yours, of course, both man saw that you didn't make too much money. And I didn't get too much money for my work either. However, because of the heavy workload, all of us, in practice, were able to train patients to make more office calls so that we didn't have to make many home calls, go out in the woods, this that and the other, of course, as I said most deliveries were done by midwives, but when they ran into trouble, we had run out and help them retain personal transfers, presentations. I guess documented, where you go out and one had been in bed for three days and find a hand hanging out, hanging out, baby coming back with all hung up in there, well we had all that sort of thing to deal with. And I say most of the time, we couldn't get them in the hospital. And my receptionist became very adaptive, administering ether, on adverse circumstance. And of course, it was in the wintertime, we couldn't have a fire in the room, and so you know one thing these women could withstand more pain and suffering, privation, and exposure. And, you know, you'd be surprised how much they could they had to withstand. And so far as our receptionist was concerned, there was in no way possible to maintain a sterile field. And because of their symbiotic relationship with the germs present, these patients didn't develop any infection whatsoever. Once the war was over, we all very grateful for the victory. We rejoiced at the return of our servicemen, those of them that did return and we all saw it or had the thought of those who, who were left over there unable to return because they got killed in the fight. Now, shortly after the men began to return home. The American Legion was was organized. Of course it was organized among the whites and their posts, was named the E A S O M T I N E Y Post in honor of the first white soldiers who had lost their lives in battle. Later, the black veterans got together, the World War Two veterans and organize American Legion, which was in Jim Crow, black American Legion. They named their post after the first black soldier who lost his life in battle and it was named the Exum, E X U M Lewis L E W I S Post. As I said, everybody was very grateful to the men who had gone to war. And, of course, much thought was given to the idea of developing some sort of memorial to the to the world war veterans, both living and dead. Many ideas were addressed and of all the ideas addressed, it was decided that the town needed a library very badly, it was decided that a public library would be built in order to honor the in honor of the soldiers who served both living and dead in World War Two. Well now this library idea was alright. However you remember in that day and time there wasn't any integration, the library would be strictly for whites. No idea was advanced insofar as a memorial to black soldiers. In spite of the fact that there was a vision that a bond issue would be floated and that these bounds were to be redeemed with the taxpayers money. Another good example of this separate but unequal. In order to cast a separate separate but equal idea, there was a basis for the school system and all the public facilities in this area. We advanced the idea of developing a recreational center, which was much needed for the use of the black people in area, all of us thought it would be a worthwhile, worthwhile project. And we established an organization a civic organization for the idea. With the idea of asking that something be done to honor the black soldiers who had served in World War Two, we came up with the idea of the recreational facility. And the people were seem to be getting together at this time, we really thought perhaps we'd get out there and do something, after all, do something together. We developed a civic organization, I think I'll have to put the name this organization in right here. It was developed with the idea of pressing for needed improvements. And when we want to ask city, government and county governments to do was to include them in their plans for recreational center for blacks. They say, Well, what do you want in this recreation center?

[25:59]
Well, we had several meetings and all got together, trying to decide what we wanted. And we came up with an idea of, of building with a basketball court, some meeting rooms, and small room for meetings and whatnot, a snack bar or whatnot. And, of course, we had no money. We would take up collection in the beginning of the meetings but didn't bring about much, but we had to do something, we had to take something before the board. And an architect told me that he would draw out some sketches, including the features that we want for $400. Well I [Inaudible] $400 to get this architect to come and draw a few sketches. And we were all set to present these things through the sketches to the city, commission, the County Board of Commissioners in a joint session, and the civic organization, I think I was I was president I would say at that time, and we we had formed different committees and appointed men on different committees. And then I noticed that the same old stuff would come up, and the same bunch of superannuated gentleman who had just designated themselves as a leader for black people in this area. They came up with counterproposals, they established a group and an organization I forget what to call themselves now. But anyway. They tended to checkmate every move that we made when it came to presenting proposals to the joint board, city county board. I don't want to just come out and tell you these as these man I say, we will say that's the chairman of their organization, whatever it was called, we'd get a list of people that I had appointed to committees, he would appoint the same list of people on his committee. And on the day before I was supposed to meet met the board. He went up with a proposal supposedly from his group of people demanding the same thing. I asked him the same things that I was asking, had the same men on the committees and everything. When we went up for joint both, I submitted my proposals and gave them a list of my committee members and all. And members of the building committee for the memorial said doctor what is was going on here. I said now, you have brought us a list of proposals and a list of men on committees and whatnot. But we also have here an identical list for identical proposals with identical men on identical committees from another group. Well now just what is going on here, then I saw again, the same old group was our chair and they weren't trying to do anything for the people at all. They were more interested in knocking down whatever I was trying to do. And I found that old animosity had developed during the fight for about relative to the appointment of the hiring of a school principal, that old animosity was still there, smoldering and just had a chance to come through. And the older heads one trying to do it all, anything at all you know, to help the people, all they were trying to do was defeat anything that I brought up. So they just played right into the hands of it, how's it be? Who weren't at all interested in developing, didn't have an idea of developing a memorial to black people. And they all they wanted was an excuse to keep from doing that my good friends like that, good old leaders had given them all the excuse they wanted. They said well, now we don't know who to believe we don't know. You bring us a group and somebody else brings us a group of identical proposals. Who are we to listen to? Well I just said to hell with it again, they wouldn't bother it anymore. It seems as though my people just wouldn't. They just hadn't advanced to the stage where they could be lead, definitely could be lead intelligently. They were being led by their nose instead of being led by their brain, so there wasn't anything that I could do with them. And as a consequence, the Memorial Library was built. And two rooms. On the second floor of a concrete block building in East Tarboro, was set up with a few chairs, some tables. And some encyclopedias and some books that nobody else wanted, was set up as the East Tarboro Branch of the public library, and a black board, a library board was appointed to run this thing. Of course, the black board consisted of the same who came to here, knocked down the proposal, build a memorable work for black people. And they were very happy to be able to say that they were this man or this chairman and these were members of the library board of East Tarboro Library Board. If you wanted a book let's say, they didn't have didn't have anything but they have to send to the white library and get it and you go up there two or three days later to get your book. And when you got to read it, it was kept back to the library back to the white library. And that thing went along. When all it went right along like that with the East Tarboro Branch of the Tarboro Library until the civil rights law came in and knocked down all these separate but equal stuff. Many events occurred between the years of 1955 and 1973 that made for progress in all directions insofar as Tabara and Edgecombe County are concerned, you know, there was just about a time that black people generally were becoming dissatisfied with the logic in this area. It was just about the time that farmers were becoming mechanized. And farm labor was becoming a commodity that was dismissed with in most instances leaving, causing a glut on the market of wretchedly poor people, especially black people, who knew nothing other than waking from daylight to darkness in the fields where only rudimentary knowledge of your rudimentary your rudimentary skills were required. That was just about the time that the out migration of black people from the farms to the cities were at its height. Wretchedly poor people leaving this area, going into the large cities to be swallowed up into ghettos, where they became, wretchedly poor people in the cities, there was a little, very few changes in that mode of life, to if you need improvements. And I might say even they encountered worst conditions under which they had to live after they went to the cities. I want to discuss the economic progress, the economic changes that occurred during that period of time, however, in as much as I've started on, more or less on the discussion of civil rights and I think I might be able to pursue that a little further at this time. As I've said, already, black people were beginning to think more and more and begin to realize that in order to improve their lives in the south, and in the nation, we might see as a whole hyphen, hyphen here, black people would have to let the nation as well as the world know that they were dissatisfied with conditions and have to do something to bring attention to their plight and try to improve the conditions under which we have to live. I will not try, I will not try to discuss this, the merit of the fight for equal rights on a national basis. But suffice it to say that Martin Luther King had started something in Alabama, that caused black people all over the country to take stock of themselves and to better themselves to do something to improve their conditions or the conditions on which they had to survive. The sit down strike, as a type of protest, was

[35:52]
initiated in Greensboro, North Carolina, sometime during 1961. It was started by the younger generation of black folk, were determined to bring about some changes, even at the cost of imprisonment, and it's caused some head whipping and whatever it took to do the job, the protest, and clamors for black people all over the south had reset proportions that it had come to the attention of the Congress of the United States where liberal senators and congressmen introduced bills that were hardly contested by conservative congressmen and senators, who did everything within their power to stifle the cries of black people. And beat back the tidal wave of dissatisfaction that foretold the doom of the status quo in the south where the white man was lord and master, who fed on the exploitation of the black man. Sit down strikes were occurring all over the country. And white leaders were somewhat apprehensive of the future, in which they envisioned the rise of a militant. I should say rise of a large militant segment of the population in anger at the frustration brought on by inequalities that they passed that they had to contend with from day to day. You know, if you're white, you may not be able to realize what it would mean to you to a person. When you have your money and you go into a store and you want to buy a cold drink, and you're asked to go back in the back and drink. When you are hungry and have your money to buy food and you were directed to the back door to get your food, you pay the same money for it, you get the same food, but you have to humiliate yourself by having to take it around back to eat it. They rebelled we all rebelled. We all thought it we did not appreciate a white man at 20 years of age, calling a black man at 60 years of age boy, we couldn't appreciate the idea of double standard salutations. About a 25 year old married white woman turns into a store and she says where she is we will What would you have Mrs. Smith? A 25 year old married black woman comes into the store, say well girl what can I do for you? That may seem petty to you but to a mature man or woman have somebody suggesting a girl, a boy, and if the woman happens to be more or less elderly? What can we do for you auntie?

[39:18]
Such salutations really insaulting to black people in this area. Everybody had to pay taxes. And they were no difference in the tax rate between black people and white people. However,

[39:40]
when you went to courthouse to list your taxes, you found two sets of tax books. One set labeled colored one set labeled white. If you wanted a drink of water in a public place. You found two sets of water fountains, one labeled colored, one labeled white. Of course, if you want to go to the theater, you know, you'd have to humiliate yourself to go up into the colored balcony. And as I say those things may seem petty to a person who is not subjected to the type that type of indignity. But to a black man or black woman. It caused deep burning resentment to rise up. And the younger generation at about this time had just about got to the place where they were fed up and they had to let their feeling the known by some type of protest. I've never been in favor of the violent approach to the problem. And to this day, I have never seen a violent approach give us any worthwhile results. The only thing that violence could do in that type of protest was to draw attention to the matter, after you've drawn attention to the matter by violence, I didn't see any need of continuing to try to gain desire to inspire continuation of the violence. After the country and the world were reminded of the fact that that what we might, in short call second class citizenship were not to be tolerated further by a black man. Something began to happen that materially changed the lives of the black man for the better. As I started out, by speaking about the sit down, strike, strikes in Greensboro that were initiated by a young black. The south was reminded that second class citizenship would not be could not be tolerated. But in some areas, in most areas in the south, where the white man had been accustomed to treatment of separate but not equal, there was great reluctance, reluctance to the change, to changes in the pattern of white places black behavior, and sit down strike was a reminder that if something was not done, violence would probably come along later, the reluctance to change the behavioral behavioral pattern of the white man toward the black men was evident in Tarboro as well as in other places in the south. And the Negro looked hopefully, for changes in the attitude of the white general public as well as the white power structure in this area, but no changes were forthcoming. It seems that no changes were forthcoming, however I put it that way. Whereas the younger folk that, as I say this, spoken spokeman are they self appointed spokesman for black people in this area were absolutely [Inaudible] when it came to demanding changes, however, the younger folks had different ideas.

[43:27]
During the summer of September 1963, we had quite a few of our boys and girls college aged coming home for summer vacations. They could see all around them that no changes were being made in behavioral patterns in this area. And they could see that they could expect no encouragement from the so called leaders in the community. And they got together on their own initiative and decided that they would stage a sit down strike in Tarboro. So early in September 1963. About 10 o'clock one morning, a group of about 18 or 20 black teenagers converged on the different restaurants, different restaurants and places where food was being served in Tarboro. They took took seats at tables and counters where they were ordinarily reserved for whites and demanded service. Well now you know what the result was. A denial of service by the proprietors, waitresses, and waiters in the food establishment and they sat down. The sit down strike was in progress. These sit down strikes were planned by these kids, these young folk, with the idea of bringing attention to the inequalities, that they found all about them with a hope that something would be definite would be done in the community in the way of abolishing the objectionable features of common ordinary, daily existence for blacks. My son was at that time attending prep school in Vermont. The other kids attended prep school and colleges all over the country, but they were home for the summer, they decided that they would sit down and protest and make this in demand service in a nonviolent manner. However, they did not plan to be arrested. When they did descend on the food, food service establishment, they were refused the service and police were called.

[46:19]
Ever since I've been here, I found that we had a very excellent police department, although there was only instances in which they use and do an undue amount of force to arrest black individuals on the whole, their approach to carry out their job was not over overbearing, brutal, or violent type. It just so happened that the chief of police of Tarboro went to arrest of it which my son was part of the sit down strike group. He asked the kids what do you mean by this? They said well, we my son took on the job as spokesman, spokesman for his group. He said, Well, we came in and we want to be served. We want to I came in and ordered a sandwich I want to be served. The chief said well now you know, that's against the law. And we cannot serve you. We hoped that you don't sit somewhere and have to carry you to jail if you do because really, the laws on the books and of course, as long as the law is on the books, we have to enforce the law. Bro went on to say, Well, do you think Mr. Solomon, do you think that the law is yes? Whether it's yes or not, I have to carry it out. That's the way it is to date, we have to do it. It doesn't matter of what I think is right or what I think is wrong. As long as the laws on the books I'd have to carry it out. But now Bro had been away from Tarboro in school ever since he was finished eighth grade. And of course, it wasn't generally known who he was. So the chief asked him say who are you anyway? Say Do you live around here? He said yeah, I live around here he said who are your people? Bro told him it doesn't matter who my people who my people are, say, My father is a citizen of Tarboro in Edgecombe County, and he has to pay taxes as well as anybody else. And he's happened to pay for police protection, fire protection, everything else? He hasn't given any discount because we are black. So why shouldn't I be given the same services and anybody else who's paying their taxes. Chief insisted just just tell me who you are, who are you anyway, he said I don't think you're from around here. This is our home and we feel that we should get equal treatment in our home with anybody else as much as our payments, our taxes are the same as anybody else. The chief then turn to another young fellow he saw there who happened to be the son of Dr. M.A. Ray and he turns to ray to say who you are? He said well it doesn't matter who I am he said other than the fact is that I tell you who I am he said I'm a son of a taxpayer in Tarboro. And I feel as if I should have the same privileges as anybody else, as any other person of my age in this area. Well chief said well now so I hate to do it and say but I have to carry you boys and girls and book you if you don't leave this establishment, well the kids have made their point they've made they've said their little piece and they've been known why they were protesting everything. And they say well we will leave now see, but we will come back later. We will come back be served at intervals until we are served. I might say right here again that the greater percentage of white people in this area area have always been sympathetic with the Negro in this play. The black man may see in his plate, they've always been more or less apologetic in their dealings with black men. In other words, they look around and see a white man and close by who may criticize him for being negro lover. They had to put the law down to the black man. But down underneath both the white people in this area had a feeling that the Negro was given a bad break. And were willing to do something to correct the matter. But it was just as one of the restaurant owners said later at a meeting with an interracial committee. Now, I don't mind serving black people in my restaurant. I know they're the minority race. But I'm a member of a minority race too, however, if I should serve these young boys and girls in my place, serve black people in my place, the white customers of mine who'd been coming down for years and years would quit coming to my place, protests, and what will happen to me. In other words, most of the white people were willing to know full well that the Negro was getting a bad deal. But they were chicken to the effect that they didn't want other white people to see them know that know that other white people know that they sympathize with the Negro. And were willing to give him his just rights. The young boys and girls, young men and women left the restaurant and went back home. However they had brought the town of Tarboro face to face with a problem that had been smoldering all along. Other communities had, in other communities, interracial committees had been appointed to straighten out of problems. However, in Tarboro we had no interracial committee up until that time. A few years prior to this crisis, this period of time, one of the youngest agents in the community, Dr. Edward L. Robinson had been elected mayor of Tarboro. Dr. Robinson had watched this movement developed throughout the country. And he had served in the Navy during World War Two. He had operated on black and white soldiers. He came back to this community and he was practicing his surgery, his profession in our local hospital, where he was known as a person who made to which race made no difference when it came to professional services. He let that be known generally and he wanted that to carry over to his civic services.

[53:36]
However, he was held back by the ultra conservative members of the city council and other groups and organizations of this area. However, when they after the sit down protest by the instance, he took the bull by the horns and appointed an interracial committee to hear grievances and see what could be done about it. He appointed Dr. [Inaudible], one of his associates as chairman of the committee and as co-chairman, Mrs. Pearl Bennett, a black teacher who had been in the public school system for at least 25 years. Along with Mrs. Bennett, Dr. Ray, Dr. M.A. Ray, Mr. Columbus Beaman and I were appointed to the committee. We began to have meetings and we were asked to outline the grievances and suggest the remedies for our grievances. We brought out the fact that black people did not appreciate separate text books. We did not appreciate separate water fountains and restrooms. In fact, there were very few restrooms at all, they were designated colored restrooms. That was that was sort of bad area. I have stopped by here to say something about that, when a person came into town to shop or anything, and found that he was indeed a short short trip to rest to a restroom, or toilet in many business establishments, no provisions were made for black people. In some instances, the poor man would have to go out in an alley to urinate in failed instances he was arrested for indecent exposure. And all he was trying to do was to get some relief. Over distended bladder. That's that's a little aside that ever there were some other things we objected to. We addressed, of course, the objectives of the segregated eating facilities, the segregated recreational facilities in the the theaters, at the ballpark. Anywhere that in anywhere, the races tended to congregate for any purpose at all. We objected to those inequalities and indignities. That was about the time that the owner of the restaurant came to meeting and explained his reason for not serving black people, I mentioned before that in the event he said black person is at his restaurant, his white clientele would not come, his white customers would stop coming in, he would go out of business. Now the theater owner had the same, he had the same type of excuse that if he allowed white and black to sit in the same theater on the same floor, the whites would desert him and he wouldn't have enough blacks attending his theater in order to continue operation. Whether it was just about that time that the civil rights law was being hotly debated in Congress. And it was a foregone conclusion that the law would pass. And these men, especially the restaurant owners, and the theater owner asked for a little time to see whether they should get everything straightened out.

[54:02]
And so far, separate water fountains, separate toilet facilities, separate textbooks, separate this that the men responsible for the separation of races promised to immediately integrate their facilities. But the restaurant owner and the owners and the theater owner asked that we wait and see how the civil rights law would come out. They agreed that in the event the civil rights law passed and became the law of the land striking down segregation, they would immediately open their facilities to black people. It just so happened that a noontime radio broadcasted news, announced that the civil rights law had passed become a law of the land. It was at noon, I left my office about 3 o'clock in the afternoon. As I drove up Main Street up passed the theater. There was a main entrance had been there all the time, and then there was a door on the side with a sign on it colored balcony. However that day, about just about three hours after the passage of the Civil Rights Law, I passed the same theater, and I found that a piece of tape had been placed over colored part of the colored balcony, leaving only the word balcony there.

[59:32]
And the restaurant owners stated that they would serve anybody who came in regards to race, creed or color. There's just about that time off the rack of a ratchet chain of stores, known as Roses Stores opened an outlet here in Tarboro. It was quite interesting to watch the proceedings of that store. In addition to having all types of merchandise available. They had a lunch counter installed. And a lot of people were both white and black were waiting around to see how that their lunch counter project would go at that particular that critical time. Well, on opening day, they had the lunch counter open, where they sold hotdogs, cold drinks and hamburgers and whatnot. But it didn't have any chairs or seats at the counter. Everybody would come up and get their hot dog, white or black. Just a hot dog, hamburger. And stand at the counter, you eat the food and drink beverages going back to business. Nothing happened. There were no confrontation at the lunch counter at Roses Store. Well, for two weeks that went along just as it was. And it was about that time that the management put high stools. At the counter where you could sit down and eat your hamburgers or hot dogs and drink your beverage. The blacks and white began to sit down and eat, eat and drink together, nothing happened. The stool could be easily removed, or they weren't fastened to the floor. But about six weeks after the place opened they fastened the stools to the floor. In other words, integration had taken place quietly. Nobody had objected to it. And everybody seemed to get along very well.

[1:01:34]
It was noticeable in the courtroom also. It was customary for blacks to seat themselves on one side of the aisle and whites to seat themselves on the other side of the aisle in the courtroom. No there weren't any signs up there, no white and colored sign up there, white and black sign. But it was just customary for people to black and white people to segregate themselves. After they passed the Civil Rights Law nobody felt ill at ease if they happen to find themselves sit on either right or left, side of the courtroom. Before the passage of the Civil Rights Law, it was understood that if you wanted to book you went to the East Tarboro Branch of the Tarboro Library. But after the civil passing of the Civil Rights Law, people who wanted books, black people who want to go and get them at the end, they didn't have many books, in books to speak of and the East Tarboro Branch anyway, though, instead of going over to the East Tarboro Branch and putting in the requisition of a book, pick it up two or three days later, black people just started to go to library, getting a book there, if they had any research to do, they would sit down and go on and do their research. Nobody paid any attention to it. And we were they were all treated everybody was treated just alike. We didn't want any fanfare. We didn't want an extra treatment, we all want to be treated as decent, law abiding citizens of the community. In other words, Tarboro accepted integration gracefully. And to my knowledge, there were no untoward incidents, relative to the breaking down of segregation barriers in Tarboro. I don't see as this integration was accomplished, without without protest by some some of the whites in this area. But I do say that it was a nucleus of whites who believed that the black man had suffered enough and who knew felt guilty of having discriminated against the black man for a period of years.

[1:04:08]
And that nucleus of well thinking people had fights on their hands, in their churches, in their clubs in their schools, what have you, which did not come to the attention of the public at large. I know one liberal minister, who was well very well prepared as a minister, who was very popular with the community. However, his liberal views, stood with him stayed with his parishioners to such an extent that he wasn't driven out of Tarboro, but his settling known that made him known suddenly that his views went in keeping with the views of many of his parishioners. And after several years, he was quietly replaced by another minister, whom it was thought would be more conservative, but who in the long run turned out to be just as liberal minded as the man he had superseded. I talked to that minister several years after he left Tarboro, and he said, you know, doc I wasn't asked out of Tarboro, but it was made known to me that I would do better somewhere else. When I left Tarboro, I went to another city that I was run out of, because of my liberal views.

[1:06:04]
During that same period of time, I'll say between 1955 and 1970, some very important changes will be made in the economic industrial status of Tarboro. As I said before, around 1955 farms were becoming mechanized, resulting in massive unemployment of sharecroppers, people who depended on farm farming for living in this predominantly farming area area. People were leaving the area, leaving Tarboro vicinity at a rate of about 1000 a year after they left the farm they found that there was nothing else to do. However, businesses then became alarmed that the exodus of people mostly farm people after all, other people left along with the farm people and they determined to do something about it. There were 1950s there were just four industrial farms in Tarboro, three textile manufacturing places, and one farm implement implement manufacturing company. The fact of the matter was that from colonial times, up until 1955, in as much as this was a farming area. Industry just wasn't welcomed in this because with the coming of industries into the area with better wages, the big farmers saw that they would soon be competition for labor. And they know that they couldn't win when it came to bucking the industry. I understand that Atlantic Coastline Railroad wanted to many many years ago, wanted to put the shops and make the shops in Tarboro and make Tarboro a division point. However, when they approached the authorities for locating in Tarboro they were politely told that they didn't want them to come to Tarboro with an old smoking engine, smoking up our pretty little town. And although it would have meant a lot economically to the area, the railroad company was not given any encouragement to locate in Tarboro. They located the division point shops in Rocky Mount, about 16 miles from Tarboro. Rocky Mount became a thriving little city while Tarboro remained a little more than a crossroads. And up until 1955 Just about more or less, efforts were made to discourage industrial development in this area. I remember picking up a man in Rocky Mount driving over to Tarboro during World War Two when gas was not plentiful, and everybody anybody was granting someone a ride and this gentleman on the way to Tarboro I found that he wanted to establish a plant from manufacturing of commodity in Tarboro and he was looking for space to establish a small plant. Now there were several large buildings in Tarboro with nothing in them, warehouses that could have been converted into the type of factory that he wanted to develop. But the warehouses were owned by some of the big businessmen in the area. And they were all they say, well, we'd be glad to have you come to Tarboro, I'd be glad to let you use my building. But I won't rent it to you, unless you give me 1/4 interest in your building and your manufacturing plant. Well the man went to neighboring town to establish his manufacturing business.

[1:10:31]
And I know of another occasion, a very energetic young man with a mechanical mechanical, nature bent of mind with smile, definitely that is to improvements that he could that could be made in farm machinery want to establish a plant in Tarboro, and he tried to borrow money to finance a small outlay for machinery and equipment. And just as I was discouraged 30 about 30 years ago, he was discouraged. And that he was told that his business were you that you're trying to start something that you just can't make a go of. And he went and played around with banks to try to borrow money but he couldn't borrow any money in Tarboro to finance his venture into manufacturing business. He went to another town and borrowed money and opened his plant in Tarboro anyway, in spite of what he had been told in spite of the brush off that had been given him by the people who could have helped him and from a very small beginning, his manufacturing complex has evolved into a multimillion dollar plant that has greatly improved the economic economic status of this area.

[1:12:13]
But to get back to my story of the development, economic improvement of area have to go back to 1956 in which the local businessman became much became alarmed at the decline of business in the area due to mechanization of the farm and the out migration of the people in the area. There was a leading of concerned citizens during the fall 1957 in which a group called the Tarboro Industrial Development Board. The group consists of 10 men, Mr. G Wesley Rucker, who was president of the with electric co-op in this area. Mr. John J. Mason, at that time, a cashier of one of the banks local bank, Edgecombe Bank and Trust Company. Mr. Pembroke Pembroke Nash, a real estate dealer, Mr. William B. Howard, Mr. M.M. Shepherd, Mr. Curtis Leggit, who owned all the business in the area. Mr. Clarence W. Wickham, an automobile dealer, Mr. H. Dale Hornest, an executive of the Carolina Telephone Telegraph Company. Mr. Joe C. Powell, a prominent farmer, and at that time, the National County Farm agent. These men met with Mr. Peyton P E Y T O N Deery D E E R Y, who was brought in as a consultant in the field of industrial development.

[1:14:13]
The organization was formed for one simple reason. The decline in the economic structure that Edgecombe County had reached an alarming, had reached alarming proportions. As stated above, as already stated, there was a great out migration of the people because they could find new jobs. And businesses were failing because people didn't have money to buy necessities of life. Mr. Peyton Deery was employed to sell the idea of establishing manufacturing plants in this area. And he has done a wonderful job up to this point up to the present time. In August 1959, a successor to the Tarboro Industrial Development Board was formed with the title Tarboro Edgecbome Development Cooperation, which is generally known as capital T, capital E, capital D, capital C O, are known as TEDCO. The successor organization was chartered by the state of North Carolina and as a nonprofit corporation and its board of directors has been gradually increased from year to year. With a current current authorized size of 65 members, the members now include not only the businessmen in the area, they also include some professional men and civic leaders of Tarboro and Edgecombe County at the present time, therefore, black members of TEDCO namely Dr. M.A. Ray, dentist, Mr. Nathaniel Gray, business black businessman and civic leader, Mr. Leslie Harley, currently a member of the County Board of Education and me. As I already stated, in 1950, there were only four industrial farms in Tarboro, three textile mills and one farm implement manufacturers. Today at the present time, there are 14 different plants in Tarboro. There are three new plants in Pinetops, a small town in the county and one new plant in Conetoe, C O N E T O E. Both Pinetops and Conetoe were purely farming communities. In 1958, there were an estimated 1050 people working in the farm plants in Tarboro. The average weekly weekly manufacturing wage for Edgecombe County was then approximately $65, given an estimated payroll of 3.5 million to $4 million a year. They are now 6,000 employees in Tarboro and in the Pinetops plant period. In 1973 payroll total $35,000,946, according to state records of insured employment, the average manufacturing weighs in Edgecbome County, in this day and time is $130.85. And at this time, 47% of hourly workers in the plants in Tarboro and Pinetops were black and 53% were white. Now all of this improvement in the economic structure of this area did not come about by chance. It came about by their hard work on the part of TEDCO, especially its executive vice president Peyton Deery. He made surveys of the available manpower in the area. He made surveys of sites available. He had the natives of the area tested for their ability to learn and be taught and he kept the road hot to the doorways of the plant executives all over the country, so that at the present time we have formica plant, which is expanding its facilities. We had Anaconda wired copper. We have a plastic manufacturing plant which has expanded over the period of years from a very small outfit to a multi million dollar outfit that is continually expanding and its scope.