[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]
Interviewer 0:03
This is an interview with Helen McGinnis Hadley.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 0:09
Is it working? I think I've got it play I think I have it in the one that I don't have to cut on the light for its work is working okay I thought it.
Interviewer 0:20
Your husband also went to East Carolina too?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 0:23
He went two years I believe it was yes. And I keep forgetting that because he's to me he was at Wake Forest for such a long time. Well with Bowman Gray too
Interviewer 0:44
So you all moved here in a 1926?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 0:53
Let me let me subtract
Interviewer 0:58
Wasn't asking you for that.
Speaker 2 0:59
1927 I think so. Daddy came in 1926 though because he was here with that big snowfall. The worst snowfall they've ever had. I think tobacco warehouse roofs fell in and he came he came sometime that winter and was here that spring. And we stayed in Nashville because we were in school my sister and I, and then he came in brought us here in June. I remember June the 11th, 19, that would have been 1927. Because I was nine years old the next July. I remember that night, I played by myself. I didn't have any friends that I felt very low left that day. I remember very well. Yeah, funny little things stick in one's memory inconsequential things.
Interviewer 2:12
Did y'all live in one of the college towers?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:14
Yes, there were four of them. We were in one of them with Slaves, Dr. Slaves was in one then the Deals and the Barker's and then in the next block the second half. Mr. Austin's house remember?
Interviewer 2:34
I know the Austin building I can't place the house. It must have gone down.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:36
Now well it's not there. But it was the second house in next block
Interviewer 2:44
And that was on Eighth Street.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:46
East Eighth Street. Thats right, on the campus.
Interviewer 2:54
It was a folksy place then.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:57
Very, they used to have watermelon cuttings. Back in the day. It was kind of a wooded area but it wasn't thickly wooded. Between our house, the backyard, and Austin building. Were right back to that. And they used to have watermelon parties in the summer for all the student body. They put out long tables and we used to eat at the dining room with the old, is that building there? There was a post office there. Yeah, that's still there and the dining oh that was the first thing we used to go there and eat Sunday dinner every Sunday. They had good food they had white tablecloths, excuse me, white napkins and nice service and it was family style. Also back there was an old clay tennis court. And I remember playing tennis there as a child.
Interviewer 4:09
Back there behind Austin?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 4:17
now these I'm not talking about the tennis courts down them where the mall is now they used to have they were they were asphalt. This was an old clay tennis court first of all it's over over there. It really goes way back.
Interviewer 4:39
Did you go to I guess to Wahl-Coates it wasn't called Wahl-Coates
Speaker 2 4:42
Went two years there went to went to the other did called model school. There was a school on Cotanche Street and my first year of school was in fourth grade I went there, the fourth grade then the fifth grade. I must have gone there in sixth grade too. I must have been. I know I was at the seventh grade then at Wahl-Coates and so I must have been in the sixth grade there also then have been high school was eighth, ninth, 10th and 11th grades at that at time. They added the 12th on a year or two after I graduated.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 4:44
When did you start?
Well, I graduated in 39. So it was the fall of '35, '35 '36.
Interviewer 5:45
So Dr. Meadows was president. You were there?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 5:50
Well, no, when I was in high school, well, yeah. I remember when Dr. Wright died in our family was we're very close friends with the Wrights. We went on deep sea fishing trips together. And my sister and Mary Wright were very close friends. And mother and Mrs. Wright plays bridge together quite often. I remember some very pleasant times with them. Then Dr. Meadows was when I was in college. Yes. He had become president
Speaker 1 6:28
You got to write as the president. I mean, you were not in college.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 6:33
I was not in college, but I was in high school. When June Rose announced his death chapter. How, long was Meadows president seemed a long time and yet it wasn't all that long.
Interviewer 6:54
It was about 10 years, he became president '34, he resigned in '44.
Speaker 2 7:09
I remember. I was mixed up on those dates. Daddy was President two years, then that was his president. Oh, '45 and '46
Speaker 1 7:34
or '44. Buddy, I guess and '44 through '46.
Speaker 2 7:41
I remember the chairman of the board at that time is daddy to take it. presidency rather than just be active that daddy felt that he was fairly new retirement. It would be better if they got a younger man. I think he would have liked it. But I thought he I think he thought it was not the right thing to do at that time. And he was wrong.
Interviewer 8:27
But he was president longer than they
Helen McGinnis Hadley 8:31
Yeah, well, actually, he did his dissertation on the duties of the college. And he was always interested in administration, although he loved teaching and did teach courses from time to time.
Interviewer 8:45
He was in psychology.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 8:47
It Yeah. But I mean, he had also taught in a lot of other fields during his educational years, I was taught by a few different subjects he had there and many interests therefore, he was busy as everything when he retired, because he had time to pursue those other interests. On the Old Testament, yeah.
Interviewer 9:20
Well, my understanding when he came, he came in what education, psychology but then the next year became the registrar.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 9:30
That may be true. I have no recollection of that. I thought he was registrar from the very beginning, but you may be right on that
Interviewer 9:37
well. It's a little fuzzy whether it might have been but in politics, I really start that because they were in the process of establishing the different areas and did a lot more than a registrar normally does.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 9:58
Yes, because that that encompassed admissions
Interviewer 10:03
admissions and Institutional research he was running statistical studies
Helen McGinnis Hadley 10:09
Yes. Yeah, he loved to do that sort of thing. He also did some self help. I mean was the students who needed jobs and so forth to help put themselves through college we did that
Interviewer 10:28
we had that in NYA
Helen McGinnis Hadley 10:34
I know they'll it's all been fragmented now whereas Well of course the college was much smaller student bodies were smaller so one man could do more than anyone could now.
Interviewer 10:51
All of the functions that we have now we had them but they were done by fewer people by and they their responsibilities
Helen McGinnis Hadley 11:04
well, he had a good assistant Miss Ross. Miss Ross. I used to as a young girl go there prior to the fall semester and help stuff envelopes. Do this routine things that they needed help doing. You know, I can't remember his his first office. I guess it was in Austin. But I just don't remember. I remember the bookstore being down there in the basement.
Interviewer 11:42
And then, I guess after they built the administration building
Helen McGinnis Hadley 11:48
well, when was that built?
Interviewer 11:51
It was built in '29 '30
Helen McGinnis Hadley 11:56
Well, I just don't recall his office and I don't remember seeing it. I remember Austin, chiefly from as, as a young person growing up on campus going to the movies on Saturday night. They had marvelous movies every Saturday night. And then when I was in college, I remember having a lot of classes in Austin and the bookstore being in the basement.
Interviewer 12:27
I cannot remember Austin but it was here.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 12:34
but it was a lovely old building I really hate I really hate to see that go, it was just a landmark over there. It was the heart of the college. Absolutely. It was. I could see tearing down some of those old doors because to me they might be old fire traps and they don't they don't house many students and they do need larger but it seems to me they could have made some better use of Austin and kept it.
Interviewer 13:08
If they had a push to do it and the money
Helen McGinnis Hadley 13:13
I know it would have taken some money but as to like it would have been worth it is talk a big part of the histories is gone with and I'm sorry for that.
Interviewer 13:28
I think anybody that was ever here with Austin is saddened
Helen McGinnis Hadley 13:34
That's right. Because it was a handsome building. I think it was a lot better looking at some of the newer ones. The newer ones don't seem to tie together. And I hate that about the campus that it's it just doesn't all tie together some of us to get like sore thumbs and there's no continuity of architecture it seems. Of course a lot of colleges have this same problems. It detracts from the beauty of the campus when they are also different colors and different styles.
Interviewer 14:22
So when you were in college it was all a unit everything matched.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 14:32
right that's true.
Interviewer 14:38
Did you like going to college here?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 14:43
yes, but I'm sorry. i One of the regrets of my life is not going away to college. My father told me that I could go away to college two years no more. So I could do it anytime. I wanted to. I'm sure part of that was economics, because the times were hard.
Interviewer 15:08
that they were cut, but 32% across the board. So
Helen McGinnis Hadley 15:16
sending somebody through college was no easy task financially, and of course I could live at home. And they wanted me to go in the dormitory, but I absolutely refused. Because I think I had my friends in town I didn't want they were so strict in it. Know, I didn't want to be a part of that I was having too much fun. So you didn't
Interviewer 15:43
have any of those restrictions?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 15:47
No, no, no. So that was that was a big difference. So, but I was always interested in dramatics. So I thought, well, I'm going to go over here two years, and just have one at that point you always had two majors. I only had one major though English because I was going to Chapel Hill and take up drama as my second and get into play makers I didn't know what I wanted to do just just wanted to be a part of it. And fallouts gone with loneliness sometimes that no, you don't want to play. He didn't have very good. He didn't have very good opinion of him. So he kind of taught me out of but in the meantime, I had also taken so many electives. With only one major I had a lot of English, but I didn't have I have a lot of other stuff. And so when it came time to transfer, I didn't have enough credits. To You know, you always lose class transfer. I didn't have enough credits to graduate in four years, I will have to go to summer part of the year and I didn't want to spend that much time in college. So I thought, Well, I'm just thinking, Now that time, Elma Brown had just come and established the Business School. Daddy said why don't you take that I believe you'd like that. So I did. I pick that up as my other major, my junior year and had to concentrate pretty heavily on business with just two years. But I did, and I've enjoyed it. He was her teacher and administrator there I was very fond of her.
Interviewer 17:44
You mentioned the Dramatics was Mary Dern Burger here. She was, met her is a director of the problem, what she was paid, but federal, those FERA, Early Federal Theater she was a Carolina Playmaker and graduated of Chapel Hill and was here I guess in '33 '32, so she was figure I guess '33 through '35. You don't remember her? Because I come across some play bills that she had in a program.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 18:38
I was getting ready to tell you that cliff. Clifton was a very good friend of mine. He lived at the office. I think he kept their furnace going or something in return for free room. He was so talented, in drama. And he directed all the places that I was in. And he and I was going to form the Chi Phi cup players and that was the first round the organization on the campus. That's why for some reason they elected me, President that first year. Yeah. And
Interviewer 19:31
I already have that in.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 19:35
Well, this is beside the point, but I just think of it when I think of Clifton I did love him. So he was just a tremendous person. You know, he went on to direct the Lost Colony and for several years. Yes, he he after he left after he graduates and he was in school in two although he was older. I think his family has had a hard time and you He didn't go to college and when one usually goes to college, he is around how much older but a few years, let's say. And after he graduated, he was an English teacher and head of the ground drama department go for a high school. And he stayed there for I guess 10 years maybe more. And during that time in the summertime, he directed the Lost Colony. Yes, and I saw it when he was directing sup for the second time when I saw it and he did a marvelous job marvelous he was tremendously talented. I tell you I really work his death hit me hard.
Interviewer 20:51
When did he die?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 20:55
I guess in the 50s
Interviewer 20:59
He died young.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 21:00
Oh god yeah, we were back here living in that sometime in the 50s but what else sad the point is finding that clip Clifton got mumps sometime during college, junior senior year senior year after he was senior year and I saw him before he you know really came down sick. And you know, I call from him. And it was junior senior. We came out I already had my date lined up with everything and here I was in bits in a month went on one side and then got well and then went on the other side and got where I'm at I spent two weeks and you know at that age MUPs make you feel my bad. So I think you know Clifton and mumps and we can we can he but he was a very talented person that I just don't remember Marry doesn't quite ring a bill. I guess it was because Clifton was so involved with the drama.
Interviewer 22:11
I think she was here when [Inaudible]
Helen McGinnis Hadley 22:15
Yeah, right. Okay. That's right. Yeah.
Interviewer 22:20
And she was not officially on the faculty she was because she was not paid. She was paid with federal funds.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 22:30
I didn't know federal government did that back that far
Interviewer 22:34
It was very good advanced and remarkable program. And they put that early establishing added time. better knowledge I guess.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 22:56
Yeah, yeah. Oh, well, I remember of different efforts to have theater groups in town. Some of the organizational meetings and so forth. They never seem to quite get off the ground but they did they lacked leadership. Someone very aggressive to push
Interviewer 23:22
[Inaudible]
Helen McGinnis Hadley 23:26
But the college didn't put on any pronouns at that time for anybody other than students. I mean, the town people there was a good relationship between down to no misunderstanding, but I mean, the drama was for the drama department was for the students not for the town folk
Interviewer 23:43
Not many got to be in it
Helen McGinnis Hadley 23:50
No, that's That's true. Yeah. Well,
Interviewer 23:55
I'm surprised that Clifton did stay here with you. Were they not able to?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 24:04
Well, there was no real drama department at Greenville High School for one thing, and I think there had been at Goldsboro for was a larger town larger High School Greevil pastor. As matter of fact, when I did my practice teaching, Lucille Turner was my advisor in English, and because you had to practice teaching in both subjects, so when it came time do my English practicing, Miss Turner said, Look, they've got a move, man coming in and Greenville High School who is interested in the drama. Would you like to do it with him? Knowing how you like that? And I've said yeah, I love it. So that's what I did. I went to practice Tom, Richard Walston you know, Dick Walston whos written a lot of poetry books State College. I don't think he's retired from there now lives in Raleigh, and he's very active in literature in North Carolina. Well, he's a tremendous person I love that was very interesting. It was no, I would say he was here maybe four or five years. And then I think he went to State from here. But that was the beginning of the drama Greenville High School. So actually, that was almost a sideline though. It was really under used. Greenville High School did not have a teacher in the business department with a master's in the course to do what's necessary to practice teach with someone who had a master say I did my practicum so but college under Miss Ellis, you know, the short and. she's been gone a long time
Interviewer 26:27
I didn't realize that [Inaudible]
Speaker 2 26:28
You did you practices in both of them. Thank goodness, I never had to teach English and, you know, I only taught two years and that was business Franklinton that's the between, It's north of Raleigh and between Raleigh and Henderson, It's near Lousville. No, actually, the only reason I taught was because in med school, his first two years of med school at Wake Forest. And we were very much in love and I didn't want to teach. I didn't know what I want to do. But I want to teach out I was too hard work. It is hard work.
Interviewer 27:22
It is hard work.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 27:25
Under paid and under appreciated. You couldn't pay me to teach in public schools anymore.
I enjoyed the experience. But I can't say I would really love teaching that much. The discipline problems in high school was so tremendous.
Interviewer 27:46
And you're never through.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 27:48
No, you never through you never close the door. I did. I got out of school paper. I coached the cheerleaders. I worked in the superintendent's office every day every weekend, two weeks before school and two weeks after it closed. I got $15 a month for that and I got $95 a month for teaching and that was a lot of work. And but the only reason I taught Miss was in the placement we were I can't remember who was calm I said I know you said you didn't want to teach but there's an opening in Franklinton in business and that's not 10 miles from Wake Forest are you interested and I said yeah I am so I called them went up next day for an interview and got the job that's the only reason I taught.
Interviewer 28:40
When did you move back to Greenville?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 28:42
Well Herb and I got married after those two years he was had finished two years of medical school so we got married and then went up to Winston-Salem just opened those last two years of med school so then I went into secretarial work at the med school our secretary professor of surgery but you don't want to hear about that that's got nothing to do with the college right. well when the war started, well see we were married in '41... After his graduation in December 43, he had a year internship and then asked for active duty in the Navy ship which so complicated. So then I came back in 1944 Yeah. December of 1944.
And at that time your father became president.
I guess I see, I forgot, I was so involved with the war and being pregnant. And Herbert's being overseas that are just that blank. They are something I say that I couldn't remember the years. But daddy did not go into the president's home, Because they had just built that home on East Third Street just a few years before. And so they didn't want to move out of it.
Interviewer 30:42
Where is that?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 30:44
it's right back of the Rotary Club.
It's a little brick home, it's painted blue now on East Third Street and the backyard is right in the backyard of the Rotary Club. That job? Yeah. Pretty cute little house. It's got it's got four bedrooms, you wouldn't. So look at it, but it was well built Nice. home with no wasted space. They'd love it. Daddy walked down to his office, he never had to drive down there. So I think they compensated for that some way, some small way. But he did not move. So I think that house was vacant during those two years.
Interviewer 31:40
Yeah, remember, there was a letter that Dr. Burgess wrote. I guess. As I suggested, it would be better. But I didn't get the feeling.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:01
I can't remember where they I can't remember where they moved that.
Interviewer 32:05
I guess he had a lot of houses.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:09
He did he did rent, he had some rental property
Interviewer 32:15
that he went into,
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:17
I can remember, there was some I don't care about being closed on this. But I will say this. I can remember there was quite a lot of hard feelings among various faculty members at that time. And the faculty was divided into two camps as it were. Some of them and I won't call him names, because that wouldn't be fair. Some of them were very, very anti meadows, because they thought he was so guilty, you know. Terrible criminal. And then the other side of which daddy was a member thought, well, you know, he's innocent until proven guilty. And he thought that Meadows was not a crook, that he just did sloppy bookkeeping. So he felt sorry for him. But he didn't hate him. He wasn't out to get him like the rest of them were and so some of those people had a very definite change in attitude for my mother and father, because of dad is seeing. And towards me, too. I felt it.
I was very much aware of it. It was a very divisive thing.
Interviewer 34:04
And it spilled over and I'm sure to the families.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:08
It did very much. So
Interviewer 34:13
the hardest chapter.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:16
I'm sure it is it would it's going to take a lot of finesse.
Interviewer 34:20
Well, I decided I know I really don't think it's up to me to say whether he was guilty or best. But what I'm trying to do is to say that this is the way you look to some people and this is the way
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:37
Thats all you can do to be fair about it.
Interviewer 34:39
The sides. Yeah, because I really can't. I just don't think it's possible. So whether or not he did take the money for his personal use. I do think it's pretty clear. Once he got into trouble he manufactured some evidence, which is not the same. It's a different a different motive. But that's something I think that got him in the trial. I talked about the jurors are still, really, and that I'd like to stay still at it. And what I've been trying to figure out is this and there was some hostility against him before this came on part of the faculty.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 35:35
Yeah, I guess, I guess, I guess. But now why? I don't know. He wasn't the type of person that Dr. Wright was. Let's face it.
Everybody loved Dr. Wright. I really never knew Meadows that well. Our families were friends with the Meadows like they were with the Wrights of I don't remember. Mrs. Meadows was a very quiet, reserved, dignified person, as I would call her. I never knew her all that well. And I didn't know Dr. Meadows is really that we are and there was random all that much. I don't think I mean, the relationships that mom and daddy had with the Meadows was very cordial. But I don't think there was a lot of social getting together. Like there had been with the Wrights. We're talking about a much shorter span of time, though to
Interviewer 36:44
Yeah.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 36:47
I mean, as far as when he was pressed, but now before, I mean, I don't remember they were terribly, socially socially compatible. I just don't recall it. They were like, there was a lot of entertaining going on as as a nail in the college community. It's always been that way. But as far as I don't think Mother mother played a lot of free agents and book club and Mrs. Meadows was not in
she's on the faculty?
she had a one I forgot forgotten. I remember Leon knows the sun. And they have $1 But I can't remember her name. He lives somewhere in North Carolina. In Jacksonville. I've seen him write letters to the editor.
Interviewer 37:40
And some people have said probably very pleased to talk with talk with him. I think it'd be a good
Helen McGinnis Hadley 37:52
I don't know I have no idea what he does.
Interviewer 37:57
Absolutely, like the letters Yeah.
Think it
Helen McGinnis Hadley 38:14
might give you a little different slant on that period,
Interviewer 38:17
and it's public record. So it's got to be in the book. It's got to be as, as it was and but from a perspective of the college history, it's really not so significant whether or not this was guilty, but the impact it had
Helen McGinnis Hadley 38:34
on you it definitely
Interviewer 38:41
as a student when you were there. How was it was Meadows considered by the students?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 38:51
I don't recall. I don't recall
Interviewer 38:53
not a not a significant issue.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 38:57
I don't think so. I think I would have remembered possibly if it if it were
Interviewer 39:04
because you know that later the students were very much involved
Helen McGinnis Hadley 39:08
I just don't recall anything.
I mean about that aspect of it, I'm sorry.
Interviewer 39:17
Let's just keep trying to see if it, it's my feeling that there was already tension in the faculty
Helen McGinnis Hadley 39:26
It's bound to spill over to the students.
Interviewer 39:30
But for the question of this signs, we're sort of already there. But I have looked at your father was in
Helen McGinnis Hadley 39:44
possession. He wants
Interviewer 39:49
something somebody had to do it.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 39:51
But daddy was a very tactical gentleman. So of course
If anybody could tread a fine line like that, like he was capable, of course, I'm prejudiced, but I do. Most people who knew him would tell you, I think that he was a very gentle person. And never heard him raise his voice or curse in my life. And I admired that about him tremendously. And when he was sick, I had, you know, I was sitting with him at the hospital a lot. And a knock would come on the door. And it was some students who come from somewhere, just wanted to check on him and tell me, how they, how he had helped them and how much they loved him. And that's the thought that happened innumerable times. And after he died, I got a lot of letters, telling me things like this, and they, I appreciated those things because I adored him, and I really do. Yeah, he had an interesting life, though, too. You know, he came up the hard way came from a great big family in West Virginia, and he was determined he was gonna get an education. And he worked a while and get enough money to go school. And then he'd start work while different jobs did, in a number of things, telephone, last
logged planes on the river, just. in a number of jobs to get enough money to go to school, and he he had his first only his first year of college finish when he and mother were married. So you know, the struggle they went through, and he finally ended up getting three degrees. You got to admire somebody that much determination. And I did.
Interviewer 42:05
He was probably a Catholic?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 42:07
He was probably a Catholic University of West Virginia. And he was the first Rockefeller scholarship, went to the University of Chicago when he got his master's. And we were in Nashville while he was working on his PhD. I can remember going back when he went back to receive it at the graduation, I couldn't have been over 10 years old, but I do remember.
So I think I think daddy was very diplomatic.
Interviewer 42:44
There was still a lot of Sure. Going on the whole trial, and the aftermath. was still there. He made a decision one way or the other. And I'm sure he was criticized
Helen McGinnis Hadley 43:09
Oh very much so, Yeah.
Interviewer 43:17
Was a sort of a difficult period. And also, I believe when he went in it was clearly announced he was not a candidate for president sounded like
Helen McGinnis Hadley 43:43
yeah, was outside the chairman of the board came to see him and asked him to consider it. Though taking it during that time
Interviewer 44:01
he was being taught a few years after that. I believe he did. I believe it was an extension. I started with the extension that
Helen McGinnis Hadley 44:11
tried he did yesterday.
Dr. Messick was mighty nice. He was when he was president, they named he was really pleased about that. And I was to.
They sure did make it nice.
Oh, it's just lovely. I'm so happy about it was
kind of fearful that when they were going to name that whole thing that they would just change the name, and I hope they wouldn't, of course, and they didn't. I did go to see, privacy dot had an apartment in the castle, I never got to see him but I did see him at a cocktail party one night said something that you know, that's the only building on the campus that doesn't have the name on it?
and I kept talking about trying to see that web see it was saying about it. Finally herb said you better keep your mouth shut after all. So many people know when we're doing this on tour music not to have ever seen was telling me that, you know that it would cost so many 1000s of dollars that they'd have to release that auditorium thing because they don't know whether it's it's carved in there. Yeah, just as he thanks us for a childish look. I mean, like elementary school looking. Well, it does. It does. I think he's right about that. And I think he was thinking why don't you give the money after all, it's your fault. But I don't have the money that kind of money to give it to somebody with just painted thing, you know, all steak. But it doesn't make that much difference anymore. I've decided not to pursue that. I'm just thrilled that they named the thing for Dr. Messick because I really like him. I think you did a good job. He did a lot for the college. I say college I should say university, but I don't see what that's putting here to me. And I he did a lot for the school. I'm delighted. But at the same time, I'm delighted with the kids when they leave on the auditorium. And if there's no name there, I can live with them like that Miss difference.
Interviewer 46:57
I have never even thought about that. A lot of people have because you just never again.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 47:03
But you look around at all the buildings and they've got these nice great big letters up there with the names every one up. Yeah, they went back to the inputs What is it over the Oh, I did it once a month later. They didn't have massive name up there on there. I don't begrudge them don't miss it. Yeah, I don't care about this.
You know, this sounds like
[End of tape 1]
[Beginning of Tape 2]
Interviewer 0:02
You know its a step at least in the right direction or most pictures
Helen McGinnis Hadley 0:09
I had thought about this too if I could get an oil painting done of daddy because that wall when you walk in is so blind but one oil portrait there would look I mean wouldn't be enough there's such an expanse I had thought it was seen would put maybe pictures from different place up there just a mass would look good. But it does look a little bare to me. But I don't know. I've been thinking about this and giving it having it done and giving it and I still may do this my sister paints and I've been trying to get her in the notion to do this but she says she doesn't feel competent so there's that one of Messicks is beautiful
Interviewer 1:08
that that was that was taken a photograph well
Helen McGinnis Hadley 1:12
Oh yeah. I may still do this because this is something that I would like to do.
Interviewer 1:25
Yeah. I think it's oversights and then nobody thinks nobody has ever had notice doesn't you know just never question my question that's McGinnis.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 1:44
Well, I'd rather I'd rather [Inaudible]
Interviewer 1:49
don't worry about that. But I think it is legitimate and I think there should be at least inside this as a picture and a Bronze plaque. It'd be nice strategy that for them at least.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:09
well I do I feel like that would be very nice. And I feel like I will pursue I've had some family responsibilities for so long that I almost can't play with anything else. This is one thing that I really kind of planning, it there's no rush about it but I think I will you know
Interviewer 2:35
Hendricks theater in the Guinness Auditorium in Mindanao Mendenhall. And that supply that said I hadn't been
Helen McGinnis Hadley 2:52
I liked Mendenhall it was beautiful but I have been in the theater theater
Interviewer 3:01
theater and picture
Helen McGinnis Hadley 3:04
Oh I'd like to see them I like to see them I'll tell you parking is so bad I think twice before I go anywhere over there. About the only time I go is to pick up tickets you know for the place maybe some a theater or something get one of those will meet or places Yeah, but they I never have been able to find one near Mendenhall anywhere the few times I haven't
Interviewer 3:38
I live on Maple Street forget about parking.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 3:41
Oh, yeah.
Interviewer 3:48
That's a very good president. I said you look good looking at
Helen McGinnis Hadley 3:51
I will I'm glad you told me that plan I mentioned this I started not to
Interviewer 3:57
It's appropriate, say a unit, within a larger
Speaker 2 4:06
Yeah, right. I think that would be good.
Interviewer 4:12
I was hoping they woudn't take down that green auditorium
Speaker 2 4:19
they needed to do the landscaping they've done looks nice, but they're not quite finished I don't believe. It does look a lot better than it did. Really, it's pretty. It is improved the seating so it's amazing the difference. I thoroughly enjoyed the summit theater last year. I thought it was really good. It's happening in the same style of MMA with John and his style choreographer the lighting just is just very simple. But I'll tell you one thing though. I think his play the plays his, the drama department puts out are even better than some of theater as a whole. I think they've done some outstanding really some of that just the junk you see on Broadway too.
Interviewer 5:27
I think it has focused on really professional productions. Earlier, it was a different focus for student expressions. I mean you could do both but i think earlier they were both students and they weren't musicians. Well, when you came back [Inaudible] were you ever in any plays?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 6:16
No, not after graduating college.
Speaker 1 6:20
Well they didn't have anybody after Clifton graduated for a long time, and then I got
Helen McGinnis Hadley 6:29
Dr. Charles. I've never gotten to know her very well. Honestly. We're very very casual. Ralph Reeds, and she was very close. He thought she was absolutely tremendous. She did. I just never knew her. Well, I just never got back in over there. Really. Once you get back once I came back, I had the children going up and then after that, Mom and Daddy started with their illnesses, data stroke and so forth. And so it was just a big responsibility. I just didn't have time to get involved over there
Your father died in '71?
Speaker 2 7:45
He had a stroke seven years before and had aphasia which was very frustrating. But and mother was quite deaf. So there was a lot hailing had to do. But I was glad I was here. I could do it
Interviewer 8:24
well can you, I'm trying to think of a... you were you were here during the trials?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 8:32
Yeah, But I don't remember too much bad except that I was aware that it was going on. Yeah. And another thing about Daddy he never brought any work, a burdens from work, problems from work which I thought was a kind thing. He enjoyed his family and he was very family oriented not only with his wife and children but with your sisters and brothers. And I thought that was very fine quality. I will. Maybe that's another reason I wasn't as aware of what was going on because it wasn't discussed well. Know. He likes to talk about ideas. We had some good discussions and arguments. But not, not not not about people and gossip. He didn't like that. So we didn't do that. Kind of talking around the dinner table
Interviewer 10:02
I can see why your father and Dr. Wright were friends, there were similarities
Helen McGinnis Hadley 10:07
yeah, they were very much the same type of Dr. Wright was kind of a gentle sort of person to yeah he wasn't didn't come on real strong
Speaker 2 10:22
firm and your new firm yeah you know where he's where he stood what he stood for. and Mrs. Wright was such a gracious lady. And it burned me up that when she died it was not a single member of the college was not representative at her funeral. And I thought that was the most dreadful dreadful oversight
Interviewer 10:49
When was that in the 60s
Helen McGinnis Hadley 10:52
it's been a while back I don't remember probably somewhere around there. But that was I remember telling Ralp Reeds how disgusted I was about that, somebody really blew it on that.
Interviewer 11:10
Well, you know it's it's sad how people have lost much of the past or the knowledge other people have you know, this period has just been here are really very suppressed when I speak of Dr. Wright President it was the best thing that ever happened. He was that his Carolina started with such a foundation
Helen McGinnis Hadley 11:37
you could have had a weak school a weak weak president and good lord we would never
Interviewer 11:46
that's why we weathered with Meadows so well you feel right that we had a remarkably strong faculty which Wright encouraged people to do their work, cause he was responsible and they were able to go right on. I thought that we were picking up this is my feeling that the college was damaged by the Meadows trial not in the functioning of the college not in the quality but the image
Helen McGinnis Hadley 12:22
you're right, the reputation kind of you're right
Interviewer 12:27
is what really hurt
Helen McGinnis Hadley 12:29
it's bound to have hurt
Interviewer 12:30
but not the act no death blow the no no we don't back but it was something that made us vulnerable to well attack by those who wish to. At Wake college would have been devastated
Helen McGinnis Hadley 12:50
That's right. Because no matter what kind of faculty you have, you'd have to have leadership. A strong faculties is very important, but it still demands some direction after all the books that has to stop somewhere
Interviewer 13:20
but they were there then that your father okay man. Well, he was both faculty, I guess. He was the only administrator beside Meadows, he had no other and Dr. Wright didn't have no Dean
Helen McGinnis Hadley 13:40
no, thats right
Interviewer 13:50
to take to teach
Helen McGinnis Hadley 13:54
well, he didn't have a course every well they had quarters back. He didn't teach every quarter he taught like maybe one course one quarter a year or something. Just to keep this ingrained because he did enjoy. He loved young people and he loved working with I think that's one reason you want to continue teaching because he did like involvement with young people. It
Interviewer 14:26
was the first one really was Extension Service,
Helen McGinnis Hadley 14:30
I believe. I believe he was
Interviewer 14:34
for the extension. That was
Helen McGinnis Hadley 14:45
not as a separate entity. Well, we've got some oil on there. I believe that's right. Well, he was so active. I mean, he played tennis up till he was 65 Or so he took good care of himself and he just didn't feel like he was ready to retire although he had a lot of interests I think he's still that college was his real central love he had spent so many years over there and he just wasn't ready to sever the ties yet. And so he was delighted when they offered him this opportunity to do the placement enjoy he enjoyed almost everything he did
he looked right here at all my voluminous correspondence we did a lot of correspondence in connection with this genealogical studies of his mother's family and of course that curves a course of many years to are you interested in layouts?
Interviewer 16:26
Yeah. It's fascinating. It is. Yeah, also edited or sent to me what's in charge of the bulletins?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 16:42
Yes. I'd forgotten that. That's true.
Interviewer 16:46
And then there was those twice a year they publish bulletins, that's like the history of players for example, for Handbooks for teachers.
Speaker 2 17:00
Yeah. That makes up the number of Yes, yes, yes. He loved to do things like that.
Interviewer 17:07
That came out it was supervised by his office
Helen McGinnis Hadley 17:11
where he liked to ride he liked this district so usually, you don't find somebody will be interested. It's either one or but he did enjoy both although he wasn't any terrific mathematician but he still just the I don't know the statistical end of ot interested him, the results.
Interviewer 17:39
well, I know we did a study on what students backgrounds you know, families are helpful or educational.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 17:50
He did a lot of statistics
Interviewer 17:54
a lot of things but I've been surprised that
Helen McGinnis Hadley 17:59
Things have computed
Interviewer 18:03
really what we call institutional research he was doing.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 18:08
he did a lot of statistics in that "Know your Bible Better" book too.
Interviewer 18:17
I haven't, I knew I'd seen that he had written it. I guess we must have it at the library
Helen McGinnis Hadley 18:24
I guess so. I don't know. If you'd like to borrow a copy I'll be glad to lend you one I have just a few left, so glad to let you have one, you can no rush on you can keep it for a while but I would like to have it back.
Interviewer 18:56
The other Chancellor's or presidents, I think I have an interview from Cookwho's still alive
Helen McGinnis Hadley 19:03
Where is he?
Interviewer 19:05
High Point
Helen McGinnis Hadley 19:06
He's still at High Point? He was very pleasant, I never knew him very well but he was seemed very pleasant
Interviewer 19:21
probably just as floored but I mean it's one thing to have grown up with this like have to hit it all at once.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 19:29
Yeah, overwhelmed
Interviewer 19:34
overwhelmed, but man, I think he Yeah, that interim period one more cooling off was good was good.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 19:55
He still looks good. Is he really Yes. He really, I was always very fond of him. just as friendly and nice to see. I was so glad to see him that the dedication grabbed me and hugged me and kissed me. I didn't even know whether he'd remember me. And I hadn't seen him in such a long time. I thought he looked great. That's a good good old man. It is really good
Yeah, nobody quite like him, you know, is sad its begining to show his age.
Interviewer 20:53
I don't know if it's been out of office, that sometimes person keeps going and then let's stay on after that.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 21:00
I think, I think with Lillian dying that must have hurt, because she certainly was a good wife. All I can gather. I was very fond of her. I don't know them terribly well. But I liked them because she couldn't help the mind can even Lilian and mother were friends when they first came. But then she was so much younger than mother and her duties were such they got to a place where they didn't see much of each other. And he certainly was an aggressive presence. You, yeah, that's why
Interviewer 21:52
I am. And then we don't need to that, Did you ever get to know him?
Speaker 2 22:05
Yeah, I met him that one time with a cocktail party and say my little I did tell him that. I had heard numbers over there for so many years. And I was glad to hear him come in and start talking about quality instead of quantity. And he did talk about quality.
Interviewer 22:30
Really good.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 22:32
I'm sure he did. I'm sure he did. I was sorry to learn that the faculty seem so in such an upheaval, but I think it might have settled down had he stayed but I do think he made a mistake job hunting without asking the permission of the trusties do it that was a boo boo
Interviewer 22:58
I think he never realize the differences between Eastern North Carolina. And a large thing of Texas, But he, really only talked to him just about two or three times, I didn't have cause to, then I interviewed him. And I think it was just cannot conceive that the community would be so interested in the college, you know, where he was in Fort Worth, Texas Christian, that it changed the entire faculty and staff at the time would really not really react or care that much. And he was just not prepared for the
Speaker 2 23:52
I've never thought about it that way. But you You're probably right, that probably was the big difference than he did because there's such been such a good relationship all through the year. Right. But absolutely. It's such a it's amazing at times, it amazes me.
Interviewer 24:14
It's an unusual arrangement.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 24:15
I was looking at that ECU report yesterday, that newspaper like thing, and I was looking over the contributors and I was looking at the folks I know. And then and it was just amazing. Because that's just part of it is financial support but it's important, but I mean, there's a lot stronger bond than an outside I might realize.
Interviewer 24:44
And the other side of the coin is that they care. That's what's happening. Anybody just like coming after Wright would have had a hard time.
Unknown Speaker 25:02
You're right you're right
Interviewer 25:04
well if anybody came after Jenkins
Helen McGinnis Hadley 25:07
the same thing like like June Rose here for I pitties the fellow that followed in his footsteps it's hard to fill anybody's shoes he was such a big
Interviewer 25:22
and the way things were done and sometimes the people you know they just have short term people
Helen McGinnis Hadley 25:32
yeah well they feel out of place as you say.
Interviewer 25:37
So somebody mentioned [Inaudible] but the time I get there. well I'm working my way up to it.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 25:54
Yeah, I think from what you're telling me it's it's gonna work out just fine. I don't envy you, I wouldn't want to have do it but I think your ideas about it the way you're approaching it is very good and I certainly will be interested in seeing the end result by copy what price range are we talking about? Are you going to have to save at the publishing also?
Interviewer 26:30
No, the college will be doing it I don't know whether it will publish it and distribute it through the Alumni Association or whatever but I would rather whether its advantages and disadvantages but the purpose of this is not to make money but to distribute the book at whatever cost I mean it to keep the cost as low as possible.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 27:02
Well I think that would be better
Interviewer 27:03
And I would think if they could keep it at arounf 15 It wouldn't be a lot, much over then it gets out of range.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 27:21
Yeah, it would cut some off that's for sure, but 15 dollars isn't gonna be much for that. I'm thinking about the Chronicals of Pitt County now that's a big book but.. its 40 Something now I bought early. Yeah. So
Interviewer 27:45
what that's it that again is profit operation and we've talked about this but we haven't
Helen McGinnis Hadley 27:58
I think if you keep it under $20 You'll be doing well.
Interviewer 28:01
I found one that Elon College had published last year. I believe that from 16 smaller you go more into detail.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 28:17
Yeah.
Interviewer 28:21
somewhere in that neighborhood. I think they're still great.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 28:24
Oh that's very reasonable I like the way that the colleges that use the colleges made some of the houses they built getting to his house over there was such a good thing yeah, I really liked that Harris home over on Cotanche that's a big piece of property. Surely they can get that, do something with that.
Interviewer 29:04
It says for sale. well, I'm the university would let it get by.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 29:09
I'm surprised that they haven't condemned that and bought it in the years past because it would just kind of round that hole find
Interviewer 29:17
some depression for hair but apparently not
Helen McGinnis Hadley 29:20
I figured the people who owned it had the price up jacked the price up so they were just gonna wait see the college I mean, but no, I hope not too but I'm sure that the heirs want a whole lot of money but that's valuable property. That's a big piece of property. That's been there a long time that was there when I went to was going to that school.
Interviewer 29:46
So was the school down from it?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 29:49
Yeah, down down the hill. Right now joining it but down
Interviewer 29:57
I've seen pictures that's where he went. Yeah. Then the lake was, that was
Helen McGinnis Hadley 30:09
The only time I ever went ice skating. It froze over. And Daddy and Mother corded on ice skates. And so I used her skates and he took me ice skating and showed me how you know, it was so much fun. It was so pretty back there. It's beautiful. That's another good thing about this campus. I do think they take good care and I think it's usually very lovely. Like I think they've done a real good job with keeping it pretty well kept
Interviewer 30:49
this spring is it's really beautiful just to walk through it.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 30:53
I hadn't done that in so long. I would like to I feel like they have so many people in so many cars that I've got no business even riding through. People used to cut through. Yeah, but I never did because I don't think it's fair.
Interviewer 31:11
You can't really drive through more now you can come in the art building you know, I've drived just a little bit but it kind of blocks it's very difficult to get through there.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 31:26
Yes, it is. But the only time I go that day is like when I have a guest. Like my niece was here. I hadn't been here in about five years and her and her husband through last month when they were here for a weekend because she hadn't seen in a long time. Somebody like that who's really interested in this the only time I do but there's a lot of backing up backtrack and just show me everything. And my sister said I don't believe this is the college, last time she was here,I don't believe this is Greenville if you had told me I wouldn't know that.
Interviewer 32:05
Did she go to East Carolina?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:07
Mhm, she graduated here
Interviewer 32:09
before you?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:10
oh yes she's nine years old than I am. When did Mary Wright graduate shopping they were in the same class, this it was 30 something well no
Interviewer 32:28
She wasn'y the youngest girl was in
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:32
Pearl Yeah. Pearl no Pearl was the oldest.
Interviewer 32:36
She was in the 20s
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:40
Mary was the only other girl and then they will Bill and Robert and that's all that's all.
Interviewer 32:48
I taught with Robert's widow
Helen McGinnis Hadley 32:58
Where does she live now?
Interviewer 32:59
she's back in Hampton, Virginia. She lived a little while with her son here
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:08
He's here?
Interviewer 33:09
Lives here
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:11
I didn't realize that Yeah, I know who you're talking about Yeah.
Interviewer 33:14
The young boy.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:14
Yeah
Interviewer 33:16
He graduated in '60.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:20
Is that right? what does he do?
Interviewer 33:22
He travels for different [Inaudible] England his wife worked over in the [Inaudible] department at East Carolina.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:36
That's interesting Well, I didn't know that. I wasn't aware of any of the Wrights being back here.
Interviewer 33:50
[Inaudible]
Helen McGinnis Hadley 33:50
That's sad
Interviewer 34:00
She knew Dr. Wright. I got everybody. I have to get me Leon Banners that's the only Family I haven't...
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:13
I'd have an idea that he'd be delighted to talk with you. Tell him I've said hello.
Interviewer 34:24
That he was a little hostile critical of his father at that time, but I guess young people growing up and I'm sure it was right.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:35
Oh, I'm sure I'm sure I can imagine. Yeah,
Interviewer 34:41
but don't come out in the book. So I sort of wanted to talk with him and say look, no way I can avoid this.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 34:49
But you know when you're growing up, even a year or two makes a lot of difference in ages. And he was younger so I mean you know I just there wasn't that much knowledge about how he felt or I really didn't know him that well you know he was just somebody younger than I was yeah he knows what was you don't know what his sister's name was do you?
Interviewer 35:25
Bay or Mary or something
Helen McGinnis Hadley 35:26
he had two sisters? I forgot.
Interviewer 35:30
One of them is dead, one of them lives in Texas. I called up some of the Alumni, the ones who are far away because I want to talk with one that I will talk with another.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 36:13
Where did you go to school?
Interviewer 36:15
I went to Montreats Prep High School and Junior college and then I graduated I then went to Chapel Hill.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 36:31
You got your doctorates at Chapel Hill?
Interviewer 36:34
And then I just finished from there [Inaudible]
Helen McGinnis Hadley 36:51
That wasn't easy was it?
Interviewer 36:52
It was a lovely time in Chapel Hill.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 36:56
I love Chapel Hill I think it's it's just a delightful village in Charlottesville they remind me of each other Oh y'all yeah
Interviewer 37:13
and every buddy that I know that's ever lived at Chapel Hill has the feeling but it was really Chapel Hill and I live there and since then it's not where they've lived there that was the time I
Helen McGinnis Hadley 37:26
I still think it just just about the same even though I've never lived there but I had a lot of fun going to dances so forth up there coming along dating different people who went to chapel and I just think it has a lovely air about it and I don't please the campuses as pretty as the University of Virginia that's beautiful campus. That and Duke is the two prettiest campuses I've ever seen but I love the Charlottesville isn't as doesn't have the grand you're that that dude does to me as house I don't know what I lost from the word I want now but it just has something about it's just so beautiful. It does particularly the old part there I just love it
Interviewer 38:34
With state funds you have to make it go the furthest
Helen McGinnis Hadley 38:57
Unfortunately I certainly didn't care for Chris Forms remark in the paper the other day about the medical school was entirely unnecessary, he didn't need to say that.
Interviewer 39:13
well you know, about a month ago there was an editorial I think they have a quota. So much of muck, sometimes they just to go out of their way to do or say something ugly some snide remark and I've gotten to the place where I just had to do so much that I had to get it.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 39:42
You're probably right. But it sounds like him. He just says typical what he'd say. I guess I guess East Carolina can just expect that from here on out the same sort of thing.
Interviewer 40:07
I've had a very fine attitude and just ignore it, during that period
Helen McGinnis Hadley 40:19
Oh, yeah, I do think Friday is makes a good president. I think he's very talented, a good administrator. I was talking with John, he doesn't get get down on the floor, not and I find
Interviewer 40:41
I made an observation. I said, you know, once we are now part of Friday's organization, that he's not going to encourage mediocrity anyway. I mean, look, it's under his jurisdiction right up there. He wants it first. Right. And I think
Helen McGinnis Hadley 41:04
I think he's very talented administrator. Have you heard him do any of the interviews of his? Don't you like the way he handles those? He's very, very good. He is very leading thoughtful questions. I think I have seen a lot of my seeing a few of my rope that centerpiece thing they wanted any suggestions I said I wish you'd say who's coming up on Bill Fridays, bro because some I might particularly want to see and I never know and sometimes it isn't convenient to watch them just sort of stuff. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't miss his interview of Roger Mud about a year ago because I like him. it's a good program
Interviewer 42:03
have you been about [Inaudible] Radio?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 42:17
Yes. That was just last week I think
Interviewer 42:24
that's one thing I only find I decided that I need to practice on Carolina TV is radio.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 42:31
why yes I'm very interested in that and I really love the the fact that we've got an antenna now we were here at Farmville so I can get public television a lot clearer.
Interviewer 42:51
I can't get it but that's what they're gonna come in.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 42:55
Yeah, it's come in the stronger signal has come in you should be there I did have to change my antenna. Which is ridiculous but I have turned it to West for it to be real clear
but I get it real clear. And I've we really enjoyed there are a lot of good special things on there.
Interviewer 43:29
Have we covered it?
Helen McGinnis Hadley 43:33
I can remember the trivia very well the important things seem to fly out
Interviewer 43:43
in time whatever else you would like. Did it take a long time for the wounds to heal. Was that divisiveness continued but just a lively
Helen McGinnis Hadley 44:04
I don't like I don't think they ever healed I think it continued
Interviewer 44:09
in the people that were really crossed personally like never. even though they did it didn't continue to be an issue that was
Helen McGinnis Hadley 44:25
no that wasn't an issue. No, there was just a coolness there that hadn't been there before. Well before had been warm friendship turned into a very cool low power you go your own way. Oh, yes. It never it never healed.
Interviewer 44:44
Particularly among the faculty
Helen McGinnis Hadley 44:46
that's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I don't know about the students
Interviewer 44:48
well, the ones that were caught in it, the ones I've talked to. It's still painful. Those who were caught in the problem but in almost There's no neutral ground that you either on one side or another and those who were accused of, you know, really upsetting everything I've heard [Inaudible] grandparents but its painful that in their college years, something that wasn't really of their making.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 45:27
it was a painful time that they wished hadn't It hadn't been that way. Well, frankly, it was it was disturbing. I never felt any animosity, but they did. And it hurt. It was surprising to me that it never healed but it didn't
Interviewer 46:20
But they didn't the people. They didn't spread it to other people after that. I mean,
Helen McGinnis Hadley 46:27
I thought they did.
Interviewer 46:28
They did? I felt a different thing.
Helen McGinnis Hadley 46:30
I felt like they did.
Interviewer 46:30
As new people came in
Helen McGinnis Hadley 46:33
I maybe I was overly sensitive or something but I felt that they did because it seemed to me to hurt other relationships I had with mutual friends I'll say, who were not really involved in any way because they weren't on the faculty, they were people in town and it seemed to me it hurt relationships. I mean, with my parents and with me now I can't speak for my sister. I don't know we never talked about so I'm here. Yeah, she was she was here for awhile.
