[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

James Mitchell
Narrators

Danele Willaims
Interviewer

Undated
East Carolina University

[This text is machine generated and may contain errors.]

Danele Williams Part 1 (00:00))
Danele Williams, interviewing James Mitchell, October 20 in Greenville, North Carolina. And starting off, my first question is, where are you originally from?

James Mitchell Part 1 (00:15)
Originally born and raised in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Danele Williams Part 1 (00:19)
All right. Well, what was it like growing up at that time in Raleigh?

James Mitchell Part 1 (00:24)
Where we were located, it was I guess it was very easy. Pretty much growing up there. I mean, it was in the South but Raleigh was a pretty progressive city. And we were in a situation where the state was beginning to recognize that they need to make changes in their racial race relationship. The high school later can't Enloe High School was the first high school below the Alexandria, Virginia to integrate and open up in 1962 and integrated high school. And so I think, you know, oh, it was it was it was great. Raleigh's not take it back doing it was big city. And everything you see or had allowed would be played in everything. So we had some city activity like, going through the park, playing Little League baseball, and then we had kind of a rural environment. We still have kids going out and making camps in the wood and getting home very out of the woods big time. Catching tadpoles and crayfish. So you know, the things are very good. Childhood.

Danele Williams Part 1 (01:48)
Now, what did you parents do for a living?

James Mitchell Part 1 (01:50)
My mom. Well, at the time I was born, was working at a community center, which was a program for preschool children. She was the elementary school teacher. And then when I got I got in high school, about 10th grade went back teaching elementary. My dad was a sheriff at the Holiday Inn and every young kid and work hard time at Angus Barn to get my, for my sister's through college. So you know, two parents and and I guess you say, at that time, you know, pretty much *unintelligable*

Danele Williams Part 1 (02:37)
So what was their educational experience?

James Mitchell Part 1 (02:39)
My mom graduated from Shaw [University], my daddy went to Shaw. I don't think they ever finished. My mother was originally her family lives around South Carolina, a decent part of South Carolina. My dad was a Wake County kid born and raised. And several, his parents moved around pretty quick. And everything. So from the Mitchell's I guess very much Raleigh and for North Carolina bound and my grandfather was, his family was out of Johnson County, which is adjancent to Wake County.

Danele Williams Part 1 (03:23)
How'd your parents feel when you said you were going to ECU?

James Mitchell Part 1 (03:29)
They thought it was great. I mean, I guess going back to like playing the education and my parents, my house was four kids. I have three sisters, two older one younger. All of us went from first to eighth grade in parochial schools, they monitor a little black school Catholic school. Up on Tarboro Road, my two older sisters attended Catholic high school, my oldest one, sister, graduated from Cathedral [School] was at the time a high school. And then later on they deal Cardinal Gibbons and my second eldest sister graduated from Cardinal Gibbons. And so the idea of education as I said, the idea of an education integrated situation. was foreign to my parents and I think the idea was that we needed to get out into the broader world and, and, and, you know, try to, you know, build our lives. So, I went to Enloe, which was also like I say, integrated and integrated high school, so I think it was a natural progression. I think that's what I get from it so they would see it as going to East Carolina. I didn't go to NC State because my sisters went to school I think I told. And looking at the problems they had with parental involvement as they matured, I chose to leave town to avoid that whole situation. And I had a number of high school teachers, they graduated from ECU. And that was one of the reasons why I picked that.

Danele Williams Part 1 (05:28)
But did you ever consider going to a historical black college?

James Mitchell Part 1 (05:31)
Uh, no. Back at that time with the the Civil Rights Movement and the filming of the Civil Rights Movement and trying to bring our failed beginning and to to the broader world. I honestly did not see where we could afford not to go to some of the major white institutions, and everything. If I had nothing against black colleges, I think they serve a very strong purpose. But if that was I thought, looking back probably a pivotal time in our history of people and development, because prior to that time, we didn't have an option. And then at that time, we are having options were seriously considered in other words they were not underwrote a lot within our way. In other words, we didn't have to be the super black person to actually get in to a number these institutions. And I had several other friends end up, friends who go to NC State, and my graduation class and so so that Yeah, I mean, I think it was a very natural break. And I think it was, it was the thing to do for us to uh, and yes, to not only education *unintelligable* I had a chemistry teacher high school chemistry teacher at Enloe and she said, You really school it's not just education, but it's also getting out partying and also learning about other people and learning about other situation that she asked us. And, you know, to do that, yeah, to go and participate in a number of things and be a part of the university. You know, I didn't completely follow her advice, but I thought that was one, I thought that was one way of kind of doing that.

Danele Williams Part 1 (07:48)
Well, how was the ECU atmosphere when you first got here?

James Mitchell Part 1 (07:53)
Strange. Coming out of Enloe, which was a predominantly white high school. In gradu-, we had about 1200 students at Enloe that graduated at. My graduation class was a little over 300. And I guess black kids in made up, 20 to 30% of the student body and I think the and definitely may have a wide range of black economic situation. The kids were very active. The black kids were very active in school. They were very progressive. One of my classmates went on to Harvard and then on to Harvard Law School, and a number of other them often did a number of different things. And they that all those differences, which was a lot of we were were overall pretty close. We lived in the world. I can't think of any real internal conflict among any groups of black kids. And remember at that time. When I came down to East Carolina, in '70 fall of '70 I'll say number one, the biggest thing I noticed was the was the difference. The older kids here the juniors, and seniors come out of predominantly black high school. So, when they came to ECU, they had a very common, consistent black education and their concepts of things were different than the people coming in my age group, which just about everybody black coming in with my class and the subsequent class that came out of integrated high schools at least. And so, so we knew white students that were classmates that we came in with. They're the first white students they actually got to know which white students, they were on with here on campus, for the most part, at least from a fresh that's how it appeared. Then the other thing that appeared was that they were and not all of them, but quite a few were not totally inclusive. They, what I used to kind of look at was the senior mentality that we've been here we know what to do, we know what to say. And the only organization that was black organization on campus, actually, at that time was a group called, acronym was SOULS. And, and different conversations with people in early from their early onset, SOULS early on was trying to be a integrated society, a integrated group, and they had some conflicts with some white kids that came in at the time. And so then that turned them off from being in that kind of involvement. And so their relationships to the like, well, really ended the relationship overall to the main, you know, student body of the school. These bits and pieces of conversation, but their relationship with a lot of us was that they listen to anything we can say, as a freshman and everything. I was pretty quiet and pretty much to myself. I had two or three friends that were out there and about, they tried to be active members and so stuff like that and then and that was their take on a lot of things. And then I did know a kid from Raleigh. I had, I knew him from preschool, his mother used to work at kindergarten, my mother worked at. And he was low. And he wasn't he was in parochial school, we were not close, close friends. But it was that common familiarity thing. And he was a junior my freshman year and relates us the situation was that conversation with him. He had gone he was a Catholic. He had gone all the way through Catholic schools Catholic High Schools, so they import his education was an integrated situation. And probably not normal in most juniors and seniors where they were at the other black kids had. He told me he said that the when he came into sometimes black kids at Phi Alpha are ostracized. Other black kids who did not pay for finance what they were doing. And it was time for him to fall into this situation. Because he came in on a number of white kids from High School, still associated with *unintelliable* and everything. And we had two or three conversations and actually laid on that school he had dropped out. And I think he actually ended up going to Central A&T later on. And it was it was odd to me because prior to that time, he had no conflicts with blacks. Okay. And it was kind of odd to say that somebody else was going to force a conflict on you about something be about himself you know I mean, because he very much fairly he was a black person and you know, you know, he was not a I want to say he would never have been a popular person because he he wasn't the kind of person he was that was dancing and but he was a nice black guy. Very smart kinda on the geek side of things but but he was troubled by that by his experiences there and here and that was one of the and and that set the tone pretty much I think my freshman year. I made some very close friends with a small group of guys, became very close and, actually it was it was the odd thing is I think, at one time or another all that year, we all considered transfering. And it got to be a thing where nobody wanted to transfer to leave the other person or other people that were there. And one of the guys was from Durham, he had very tough time cause this, like this was back when I was first set of mind, the one of our friends who didn't have a real problem was from very small rural town, and we used to laugh that is most people, he's seen at one time in one place. So, so the, he understood the conflict, or the separation. But where he was from was strangely small. So it didn't, you know, really didn't bother him where my friend from Durham, we used to get down one more thing, and also the way we interacted with other people you know, we were used to interacting with say young ladies and that you'd see them more than one time where you weren't necessarily dating and or anything, just you know, you know, female friends from high school and down here that took on a well, initally, there weren't a lot of young ladies around here black young ladies around here, but anyway, and, and the, the guys that did or were out it seemed like that was a bigger issue than just you know, just sort of casual social life

Danele Williams Part 1 (16:43)
Okay, well, what the campus look like then, at that time?

James Mitchell Part 1 (16:48)
The main part of campus except was pretty much like it except we didn't have the Rec Center, and we didn't have Mendenhall. So that part of campus wasn't even under instruction, nothing was happening on that end it was smaller. We didn't have the art building and but the hill you go up at the hill for the cafeteria was still the hill. And the center of ECU was that part right in the bookstore. Matter of fact, that's where I met my wife hanging out in the car. Oh my goodness, that's where she lived that those who were actually that's where all the black kids, pretty much were doing in the middle of the school day. So if you ever been to the Card Room playing

Danele Williams Part 1 (17:46)
Where's the card room?

James Mitchell Part 1 (17:48)
Card room was in the the OCU on the second floor. And that the OCU was adjacent to to right now, that's the Quick Store real or something down there. And that area, and if you went like through the real area, it was a stairway that you could actually enter areas without action and see you and then you went upstairs and then there was several rooms up there. And the big room was the what we called the parlor big main room, which was the my freshman year was probably one of the major centers of all our activity and entertainment during the day in between classes and like a black kids out of classes, and they weren't they were usually playing cards and stuff. And then later on, we had a couple of parties up there. The problem with having parites up there was that, you had to be outside like 12 to Part 1 (12:30) at night and then the then we used to do what we like kind of like a singing which is somewhat like a talent showing up. But initially it was extremely casual. You know, we just thought one evening everybody was a bunch of people around and those that could do something ahead with something to say would do it. And then later on people began to actually put things together and it became very good source of entertainment because there were actually some kids that had real talent. And then even though kids it was entertaining also you know but it was, but but it was I was really surprised at times the level of my wife's best friend had a beautiful voice and *telephone ringing* she often did not sing, you know, and I remember two or three times, she was singing, actually first time I remember she was sitting around group of guys and all their mouths drop slam open for that, that was how well she was singing, cause a couple of them had had arguments with her earlier you know which means that it kind of like, no it started. But she never really did a lot of that was one thing. But but the campus from coming back over from Picklin coming up to the hill coming down to the main part of campus except for the area back over there, like I said about rec center, and a lot of it's pretty much the same, they put in a couple other buildings and really don't know the names but for the most part, you know, we can walk around, and not feel like we lost our place. I mean, the mall is exactly like it is and everything I didn't go in the haven't been in the biology and come back when the saints like the worst back during the year. And But one interesting thing about campus at first, firstly, naturally, my wife came at the second, still with so few of us that you will be walking across campus, you know, in between classes. And let's say you will be on one end of the mall. And you see somebody on the other end of mom waving different cards. And it took me a while to realize the epistemic compass and what it was,

like, you go out in this light, you see all these lights to the way off, that's why you see this pan, and he just be waving just as hard as they could and and then after a while it got to be a thing. We just acknowledging each other over you know. So and I think that also stated to the I guess the separation issue, you know, I mean, and it also acknowledging that hey, you know, we know that advice on everything, which is, which a lot of time I think students particularly young freshmen can feel anyway. I mean, they've talked to people before freshmen get some time to be accountable all the time anyway. Given that we had the additional situation of up the numbers, you know, I'll say less than 200. Efficient. Thank you. So they save a total of 30 kids on campus, like on campus freshman year. But again, if my official assistant number I just recall. But I'd say you know, for the most part, you know, when a lot of us RAM or anything that's done prior to campus laying, I walk around, and I found that thing about, I can't remember going leaving the CEU area paid to work around the biology major in the biology area, and then seeing somebody beyond that, and coming out from the posology buildings and things and understand people waving and stuff and everything, you know, the wait, go in. And I guess it didn't make you have to cry. It didn't make it a little bit better. It became a joke among us too. I think after a while.

Danele Williams Part 1 (23:49)
You mentioned a car room. What else did you do after Vegas is a preferred way.

James Mitchell Part 1 (23:57)
Okay, very let's take the weekend, Friday night. Because we had an interesting experience with my daughter being in fashion show and right auditorium and my wife and I just you know, we were just amazed how much how much improved right and cheery a look when we were students that time were they any hard wooden chairs and what they used to do Friday and it also said on a Friday, so we got to have free movement on campus. Right auditory. Usually a couple of guys a second set up in the bathroom pretty much nearly interest coming in. After the movie was over, we generally walk downtown to that time is the core problem bucking the interest and you might go down and walk in here Well I mean it played the Latin years ago and then and then it was you know, we go down maybe have a couple of beers you know stay down and flowers go get some money and usually somewhere around about so we will be back in the dorm my biggest memory it will be like coal gas plant cars planted with the plant partner we have about half a dozen or more gas around the room waiting to be met so we do that for like two or three o'clock in the morning and everything and get up the next morning and then go to the gym to play basketball for a while you know in the afternoon to get to get the games and and then pretty much spare the probably the kind of this type of almost nothing for the most part occasionally there will be no little activities on campus that you may encounter drift in and out or you know you know there's a lot of times a lot of a lot of car cleaning a lot of plan and in the room a lot of times with the the older male counterparts Amanda without a lot of I think the numbers or the it appeared to be like a more black males on campus actually black females for the black females that were on campus, some of the turnout would be very studious. So that means that sometimes they weren't very sociable and everything and there was a couple of girls I'm understand at the first couple times the first the Eon pick up come again come up to the end of school year and everything and so that also impacts your social life. And that's why I said the other thing about cars and I think today maybe two or three different times and put together something maybe on a Saturday up in the car room for somebody for a stereo equipment. Dance you know we had we had a big time all it's about staying stayed in despite everyone a phone to heal and stay in a car. Think my freshman year. Scott my sophomore year Jones on Junior do they don't mind seeing? So I was I was fleet keel added. They go in and play sales. But for right there. Bill, I think I enjoy them. I see my son you by the time I see you again. Can't roll around. I really began to enjoy. I get the campus people and organizations. Yeah. My freshman year when I came in the class ahead of us. Young man, we're actually John Carter Jr. But it was mostly made of Kenny ham. Jerry calm. Jimmy Lewis. They were starting a chapter or trying to get a chapter out there. And Batman does best who was the black physician here in town was fear here today. So barberry very calm. We also pull in the asset that we kept with the freshmen. We didn't know enough to know anything. But we went on to all the meetings we spent in and then we got to chat later on idea and exploring. And so yeah, it was it was pretty nice. I mean, I think it gave us another outlook beyond just the soul. Which for? Well, I didn't look to pay nothing for a couple of Gamble's so that his parents were frustrated.

Danele Williams Part 1 (29:29)
So mainly on the Black Panthers.

James Mitchell Part 1 (29:32)
We were the first black frat on campus. By the time I was a senior and there were the blacks or the K deltas. And then the omegas and the campus during the time that we were When were they I think they came Maybe Matt Cheney and Mike Jones was First and Megan president and we just had casual conversation that even though we knew historically competition and the, between those fraternity, and we stand, we thought that we need to be careful you know, some band is fine, and everything but we but not to really help affect each other baby cousin and back because we feel way we saw was that this was an outlet for more expression, individual expression. In other words, instead of having one organization with sunbleached different several organizations which Yameen gets enveloping about the leadership's deals and organizations to deal with. And, but, but not to, but to be mindful of our situation, they feel a very small groups and and people with some very changing, you know, and elders, oh, was the the idea of even having black people around the Alamo with white people thinking, but I would imagine, you know, we still were not commonplace. So, anything that would be a glitch lay on some of the things that happen, the omegas, who historically brand each other. I think that first line, they think they brand ad campaign, and one of the gaps who traditionally would never make a light went to the farmer, and the university definitely has found that, hey, this kind of thing. And and, and so what happened was when it came back, it didn't come back, and omega came back out. Because we were had been there a couple of years earlier. And also universe knew that this. So then right there, bam, bam, okay, and there's not a distinction among us individuals, or even the recognition of your individual organization, is it that there was a black fraternity, and everything and so I don't know if that ever carried much beyond those sheets, in school and everything, but that that was the least idea that we tried to hold

Danele Williams Part 1 (32:53)
the faculty when I went classes

James Mitchell Part 1 (32:59)
I thought it was pretty much okay. Okay, first of all, I think number one, you have to go back and paint when we came in, and most of us coming into this situation particularly bad doing in you. I deal with, okay, I'm not looking for anything a manufacturer. Okay. So then, and I want to say that and I'm talking to some of my other friends stuff that and that was mine, and we didn't, we didn't get together and spread this word. We failed, but later on, and just some general conversations and stuff like that. I would say that, that we're proud probably that for the most part, most of us was feeling that way. And so when you feel that way, you know, you just say you know, you're not going to pick the person on earth because you you know, because there's your your company and maybe with that somebody while the handsome The only thing like I said it's not normal situation, you probably have constructed that maybe it was never taught before. So But on that note there was the problem I had, I had a couple of my friend brothers in France that man and and there was an I can't think of one of the things in Joe which He was the captain of the football team,

his senior year, and we can let you enjoy George McLeod so math major. And George asked with compensation with that particular person. And Joe said let me enter All right, you want to be a math major? Because we've always built with our hands, you know. And then my friends also got the same thing couple years later from the same person. And so, but they, they went through both of them graduated math degrees, that might have been his perception. The thing was, if it was he didn't do it, he didn't put any roadblocks in front of them to you know, and I think it was, that was the biggest thing, but it was the kind of thing that basically, I wouldn't say it was commonplace. But you know, that's off the top. That's about the only one that can remember that. Because usually what happened in the event that when the crowd, most of us complain about inexpressive, anyway, we got instructed the bonus structure for you, I have to question. So so that I don't think that that was a particular issue, or thing that

Danele Williams Part 1 (36:11)
you mentioned, club Sam Tam, currently. So was they open to you as far as going in?

James Mitchell Part 1 (36:19)
Yeah, we could go into any in place downtown, the book in here, the elbow room. But the thing was, okay, back then, when in a lot of places were listening to very hard rock candy, you know, late 60s, early, early family Motown and then very easy, very mellow, like us. And that's so basically, you didn't go not because some of us did. Not go, you didn't go because they want because of the situation in the US it was it was one place they have the flag to bail. Because they were out in Texas. You know, and in, you know, a bunch of us with a big time and stuff. But that was kind of unusual. And everything in and sometimes you just wait and just if nothing else is around and you know about those things will be you know, because sometime that was all there was

Danele Williams Part 1 (37:55)
that you feel that treatment of African Americans I had a glitch.

James Mitchell Part 1 (38:01)
Well, I think what happened was that, you know, I heard some of the kids that came in, had both because, again, it was a graduation class as a freshman in 1970. And their experiences were different. Like I say, I think by the time we got here, and 70 I think number one, I think that the university was actually trying to report the president of the university Leo Jenkins was supportive and he bought that he had a relationship to Andrew and and I think that went on and they became one of those people on the board of trustees or something like that and but but he was a very interesting man and we guys that he was probably the strongest advocate here in other words, we used to be known and easy to go out to just browse the school itself at a time and identity Christ who 85 miles from me from from hitting everybody. I always say brought it from Raleigh, NC State and Chapel Hill Carolina heaven naturally. Hey, hate relationship for competitive ECU was at a time when looking for somebody to start real. We like realized a little brother that was looking for somebody to to fight with. It's just so that we could develop something. And I think that became the university bigger mission. Not the fat, whether or not the African American students you know, they to be negative, and we're not gonna win started this progression that started I think, in that way, I think the school was a lot like the city around they recommend, man, okay? If we're going to grow and change, we have to have higher goals and ideal because they because those years they started the medical students, okay. And they had conflicts with UNC medical school, they had bigger fish to fry. And then then they actually really went to many years after they started medical school. No man who Dr. MILLETTE our fantastic brother, David, they have to go man didn't know that. I quit. And I got out of school, I've taken a class or instant state and state pension, we just haven't ever transplants. He later came to me as you may have been, so those are still very early. So and he's still here in town or part of Yeah. So you know, I think that overall, I think they they've done a very good job of being supportive. We went from I know very few black fusi on when I spotted cost. Everybody here at that time we went out to other places we have been being molded in school, because I can't remember if I'm tan icon, some schools in by the time that were leaving, they were people coming in to go to summer school and thank God they were canceled. If almost all the surrounding community then in the past, and after they went to either at&t or City Central and everything and we would run across people that will come down the mountain ferries to Hey, we got to try to do something you know, and I think I think maybe that can also help bring in a number of kids. I think that they that the they I think the amazing fear of not being well that was or having and maybe even actually having some unseen hostility and you know we stay within our wiki and stuff like that and everything that they say hey, why should that you know you know go the extra just you know 21 miles between here and camp Carolina yea and so but yeah I'm satisfied that the that the that the administration was very nice I used to stay at night and and progressing with the people went out about town that Ringo was very small my early memories of the local local black community which a couple of guys dated math at one guy with an American young lady from green I think he got he got married while he was in college she met him she junior in high school and get to later but actually finished that she I mean she graduated they got married and everything in but oh wow. When you have young man and you don't have adequate female face they can be they can be from conflict. So then quite naturally and allow Ella here is we have no man Gavin his numbers. But isn't that in and there were no major conflict. But there was some of the some of the little joints that okay, we talked about the book in the year. And those who those those things that we're calling Orient, they had to close them the baton Cavalier and, and, and can't and the older black kids go down and be part of this as part of the community. I'm going to look at the man. I am going to play late and when I'm at home, I say I know I'm not going to place but nobody knows who they You know, and, and two of the guys I have friends that run the track team, you know, can they love the going? Right? Of course, they get chased out a couple of times, but they want to try it so it didn't bother them at all, you know? So, you know, I said no, no, that doesn't work for Jim, you know, the old community, you know, they're, you know, yeah, they like that they, you know, go out. I especially the challenge because, because, because they will stop running and screaming at him and you know, wait and see here and old people were you know, but I think at that time you know, the biggest conflicts I don't know the school for tolls. And I feel like they went in and and mill of our stuff for the civil rights, environmental and women's movement.

James Mitchell Part 2 (00:00)
Okay. And then all those last four issues that were major issues in the country. But the key is that like if it wasn't for the kids and ECU works that was doing the test. Now, you know, because they had one year they actually boycotted the downtown area, boom, government was actually going to pull that money out. Wachovia Bank, the president stop, because young ladies, that freshmen girls, the post dated freshmen dorms, they had to sign out in the middle of the week. If they went to the librarian thing, and they can't clock, I think Monday through Thursday, something like that. No, definitely weekend, he probably be back in somewhere like around 12 to 1230. And freshmen dorm, and state Chapel Hill had, like, this patient or alternate for what kind of thing and stuff like that. And so my freshman year, that became a real big issue. They did a little bit on the weekend, and something happened and they figured away, and then that caused a lot of conflict. And they pretty much stuck with taking away the rest of the year. And then the next year, they just open it up. And it was like, it was not an issue at all. But But it struck me odd and kind of funny that, you know, people have been scattered around the country. You know, countries have been terrible, the civil rights women's movement against by burning bras stuff, and the you know, you know, civil rights movement, the steel cow a lot down here, we, man, we want to have a woman come to our room, we want to be able to go up to her room with no half you understand? You know, that's what's important, you know, and, and, like I said, I think I think the school itself was was what was fighting for. And I think, I think I think that's the bigger problem that we have, I think man ECU with a medical school Medical Center in Greenville growing, you know, Master's in football program doing, you know, pretty well, you know, and everything is, and we identify ourselves more or less with our football program stuff. I mean, you know, we, NC State and Carolinas to roll with life. Like everything, pretty much, you know. And you know, it completely ignored us. I mean, what it was, was just fat. Guys, my brother in law used to ask me Yes, last few years later, when we played Florida State, Florida, Miami, I'm staying here and

Danele Williams Part 2 (03:19)
football?

James Mitchell Part 2 (03:20)
Yeah, well, what happened was we were, we were turned around, my brother asked me that while we find a place to man, you know, and they, you know, they beat me to death. You know, and I realized very early on, I think that the school would wouldn't work. Through the spreadsheet, we take the ask, and then that is bad that we don't want to be ignored. You know, it's better, you know, and, and, and there was like that when, with the medical school and was like that when ended, I mean, what just football, that became the attitude of schools when, you know, we enact and everything and, and so, you know, it's the old standard, you know, you know, you know, I'll take some punches, but get some punches. And, and I think that's, that's probably what for this university is bound to fall in. And the biggest thing I learned from, you know, because this fight was the reason I say they went to medical school. The it was Dr. McDaniel and his wife they were in the bowels of truck that I had with him when I went to school, the electronic stuff. And she was provost. Somebody had to go through it one time and it's seen a few times and and this one time, we would just do 1000 You know, to activate, then fed get started first class of medical school. Thank you. And for half was Carolina was overseen. And what they did is put in a new experiment and they were really pissed off about, you know, I mean, you know, because first of all Carolina didn't want to have they are not rich enough support. I mean, it's a big deal now space not rich enough to support a medical school does that. So I'm saying and it became a big political fight nasty. And then it was still nasty a couple of years going into, you know, because the people that he was still up in arms with people at Chapel Hill, and everything. And so that's what so that's what I think I mean, we are not gonna be enough greens, while you East Carolina University, and not East Carolina College has to do politically. And not only Northland Central, or NC State used to being in college, the only place that was University was Chapel Hill. And I don't know the details for that fight. But it was a political fight that when Neil Jenkins, who was president was pushing for status and everything they had been, you know, they had some some number, given a hatch rate, you know, this one has been great all them so, so at that time, you got funding and things to the state legislature, the university and what he had done with political organizing, legislature and stuff to support the school. And, but eventually, this time around to high school, they changed it. And they changed, they changed the champion, because he didn't get the change of everybody, you know, I mean, and so now, the schools are no longer the plan of college or, you know, it was I think, was central move to city state, you know, versus City College, all these schools had colleges on it step for us. And so, what happened is, I may need the little thing that got a call that spoke to the attitude of the you know, I guess Karafun, you know, you want to say, you know, or really the driving force, that the university is the fact that we are not going to, you know, the eastern part of the state is poor, eastern part of the state, economically was not as rich. And in the light of being a no, we don't care, we're poor. And, you know, whatever it is, we don't, we don't meet you on this field. And you beat us today, we come back tomorrow, don't make any difference, we will show up again, you know, and so on, I think and, and, and they are looking at it growing from even from when we were in school, 10,000 students and stuff, but to me, I mean, that's what you have to take pride in. I take pride in the fact that there's 1000 You know, a couple of 1000 black students on campus, you know, when you know that that number is relative to what school licensing this in a shot here when we are out of college. So you know, so that's

Danele Williams Part 2 (08:46)
why I got some more questions. Oh, how'd you feel about both your daughters going to ECU

James Mitchell Part 2 (08:57)
my initial feeling was I didn'tcare one way or another but actually my wife was the, the, the strong advocate. The thing with coming from my family from early on, was that she go to school. So what happened was, you know, I want them to go. I want them to go someplace. They were comfortable. My oldest daughter played in a basketball game when she was in high school and Charlotte and used to talk about because she she was actually not a big city. And she was actually common she won and go to UNC Charlotte, our, you know, in IDEA her mother saying and going to East Carolina was like, we drove back at one time to go to this friend of ours and shoot, no row and everything in First of all, it's sort of isolated still far away from things and it's not the area that could be. She must been about to stop. And so up to pretty much I guess. 15 1617 years old she was taught by UNC Charlotte, because Camille eighth grade year. Yeah, we went to Charlotte playing. With Neil's playing basketball in a tournament, her eighth grade year, we sat drive by UNC Charlotte, well, UNC Charlotte not laying right down in the middle of the show is Alan outstretch of Charlotte. And somehow knows my daughter last summer through the air. Christopher Christina was some of the reasons for the show. And I don't know when she gained through the asking for ECU. Actually, I think when she Mr. came here, I think she basically came because it was the threat that, you know, when you finished high school, you got two options either to go to college, but he couldn't get out and you will start making your way in the world, you know, come and fall and fall, you know, in some way. So I think initially, she just went well, you know, I just go I think after she may, after she came school here, I think her view or she's got his body as she used to be. She understand that his the whole nother region of the state. And in this part of her state, you know, and everything she you know, have some fun, doing practice teaching, I was kind of wondering how she Rahel on there. And she seemed fine and and

and so I didn't have any feelings about her going. I think his parents have been very good for her overall growth and development.

My youngest daughter, that's my oldest and my youngest daughter's in the middle of the book can been written yet. We were still writing that and rewriting that whenever we go along. She hurt now I will say this very early on she made a decision with no hesitation she see early in enrollment when when the counselor came back to school and boom BAM she shut down here. That's it I'm curious to see her development is her freshman year was the year the floor here. And there are things there or I correct me when I can interesting there was the two girls were not that close kids coming. My mother was saying they were cat no woman at all, you know, I mean it just didn't make fluid hit. They were isolated now here. And biggest thing we noticed all of a sudden a lot of

annoyance or admin packaging toward an older system just went away and that made them closer we don't know whether or not an idea that hey, some real threats in the world and some real things that can happen bad did that there's another person who share very common history with you I think sometimes when people that that's a big thing that you know that you're not ideally out there by yourself. I don't know, man. You know, but right now all the slips that have gone. She's her first two years she slipped into seemingly from rock band for a lot while her oldest friend wish she didn't do before never done before as a kid. And so now this year is over isolated for some way and everything and so like I said, I mean we just don't know You know, this is a parent observing account. And I think that's you know, right now she seemed to be coping and deal with everything. And the biggest thing for me is I just wanted to graduate get a job and become a citizen. That's a bad that's my bottom line anyway,

Danele Williams Part 2 (14:54)
I don't know I say you have your easy Black Alumni triangle chat.

James Mitchell Part 2 (15:00)
Well, this is an attempt we have, we have a full chapter we're trying to fill it now, this goes back, I guess, when my wife and I, who's also a graduate and everything that hear about early 70s, just about time, we were coming out of school, we were discussing it among the people I was in school with. And they have Black Alumni Chapter out of green. And, but now that the girls have a house, and and I guess this was an attempt on us to redirect maybe our own life prior to the girls, me and we were not involved in anything much outside of work and, and then so now we are, you know, we beat with about six, eight other people, we will expand that. And that was this year. 2001. So really just trying to pull things together, we know, and we have some friends that were in college up an area and we're just trying to bring them in. And some of them are a little different situation, I mean, some of them still raising children. And we cannot, you know, and we understand that and we're hoping that we'll be able to get a good chapter going, we hope that we will be the kind of thing that will, you know, be supportive of some of the ideas that I guess we've kind of talked about, because we still we know that we still need to grow and handle, you know, we understand the problems that people face, raising children coming out and dealing with jobs and and and we're hoping that the champion will also serve as communication regarding some of those ideas and concepts. And also, you know, we would like to hopefully be financially supportive of universities before scholarships for you know, other black students. We, it's a lot of openness to a lot of work and but like I say, you know, the bottom line is we get knocked down but we get it. I like that. Thank you for your interview. Hopefully get a on this project.