Francis, Michelle A., Oral Interview: Grady Craven, June 10, 1983 CE

Francis, Michelle A., Oral Interview: Grady Craven, June 10, 1983 CE

Oral Interview

Grady Craven

Robbins, NC
10 June 1983

GFC: Grady Franklin Craven
INT: Interviewer, Michelle A. Francis

(Begin Side 1)

INT: Okay. What I want to do first is just have you tell me your full name.

GFC: Grady Franklin Craven.

INT: Grady Franklin Craven. And when was your birthday, if I can ask?

GFC: April the seventh.

INT: April the seventh, when?

GFC: Nineteen and seventeen.

INT: 1917. Your daddy was Daniel?

GFC: Yeah. Daniel Zebede. Yeah. His initials was G.D. No, D.Z. And my granddaddy was J.D.

INT: That stood for what--J.D.?

GFC: Dorris.

INT: The D was for Dorris?

GFC: Yeah. Dorris. And I believe this. I'm not certain about that, I think his middle name was Zebede. I believe it was.

INT: Okay. Who was your mama?

GFC: My mama was a Sheffield. Anna Sheffield.

INT: Were they a potter family?

GFC: Nope.

INT: No. Oh. Just the Cravens. Well, Cravens have been makin' pottery for generations, haven't they?

GFC: Oh yeah. I reckon my granddaddy was the first one. I ain't gonna say he was, but I believe he was, you know, started up there in that neck of the woods.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Up around, uh,. . .

GFC: In Westmore, you know, in those sections.

INT: Mm-hum. In Moore County.

GFC: Yeah. Up around Moore County. And a lot of them other fellers learned from him, you know.

INT: Did they? Did he have a lot of apprentices or journeymen potters?

GFC: Well, I just couldn't answer that, 'cause I don't know. But, uh. . .

INT: Who all learned from him that you know about?

GFC: Well now, this feller Teague we were talkin' about yesterday down here. That was his daddy learned from. You know.

INT: I do. Duck Teague's father.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Learned from J.D. Craven.

GFC: But then there's, uh, several more, and I cain't remember all of 'em. Fact I don't know 'em all. But the way I understood it, he'd have 'em as hired hands, you know, a'workin' for him, and they'd pick up the trade, you know. And after a bit they'd go out on their own. Other words, he was the daddy rabbit of all of it, you know. (Laughter)

INT: Well, what kind of pots did he make?

GFC: Oh, stoneware.

INT: Stoneware? With the salt glaze?

GFC: Mm-hum.

INT: So I guess he made things like crocks and. . .

GFC: And jugs. And they made a lot of jugs back then, you know, and sold 'em, I reckon you'd put it, to bootleggers. They wasn't bootleggers back then, you know.

INT: It was legal back then to do it, wasn't it?

GFC: Yeah. And I think a bunch of jugs would go to them.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Would they be like quart jugs?

GFC: Oh, they'd be up to 5 gallons.

INT: Up to 5 gallons for the, the whiskey?

GFC: Yeah. People back then, you know, didn't take a little sip. They chugged it.

INT: (Laughter) That's true. Well, he must have burned then in a wood-firin' kiln.

GFC: Oh yeah. He burnt it with wood and lighters. You know what lighters is?

INT: Tell me about it. Is it that real light, dried out wood?

GFC: Yeah. It's uh, some people call it pine, some lighter. It's got a heap more fire to it than oak wood. And he hauled that up, and my granddaddy hauled that up with two oxes. That's what he used to pull his wagon. You know what oxen is?

INT: Mm-hum. I do. That's what he used to pull the wagons? To haul, I guess he hauled the clay from the field with it?

GFC: He hauled his clay and on and on back then. I heard my daddy tell about it--haulin'-with them two old oxes and just as slow, seemed like he never would get nowhere.

INT: How did your granddad market his, his ware? Did he haul it off or did people come get it, or. . .?

GFC: Now the way I understood it they hauled it off in wagons, you know. Back then they had covered wagons and people would haul it off and camp, you know. Be gone week at the time, to camp out, you know, on the road.

INT: I guess it would take that long to get any distance, wouldn't it?

GFC: It'd take 'em that long to, you know, to go a hundred or two miles.

INT: Did they mainly sell, say, towards South Carolina? Did they have any particular area?

GFC: Sometimes they'd go to, back down the country. But they claimed they could get more for it up here, go up the country. So they would go both places.

INT: Just wherever they thought they could sell it.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983
GFC: Course, they didn't get much no way, but, I reckon back then it seemed like a right smart.

INT: We were talkin' yesterday and you said you thought your dad was probably born somewhere in the 1880s.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Was it a big family? Did he have lots of brothers and sisters?

GFC: I reckon there's about 6 or 7 of 'em.

INT: Can you remember any of their names?

GFC: Of my daddy's brother and sisters? Uh, Uncle Frank was his brother. And Aunt Arlene was his sister, and Aunt Polly Maude was his sister.

INT: Aunt Polly. . .?

GFC: Polly Maude.

INT_: Polly Maude?

GFC: That was his sister. And Aunt Juleanne was his sister. Francina was his sister. I don't know how many of 'em lef t.

INT: He had a lot of sisters.

GFC: More sisters than he had brothers.

INT: He just had Frank for a brother?

GFC: Yeah. He had a half-brother, John. But them two is all I can think of. Most of 'em was women.

INT: Were his brothers potters?

GFC: No.

INT: He was the only one? Daniel was the only potter in the family, after his daddy.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: And he worked with his dad?

GFC: Yeah. He worked with him, you know, till he died and then he put up his own business, you know.

INT: Do you know when J.D. Craven died?

GFC: No, I don't. And then another thing. He never would let nobody make a picture. And there ain't nobody to my knowin' that's got a picture of him.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Of J.D.?

GFC: No!

INT: He's just funny about that, huh?

GFC: And, I never did know what he looked like, only what they tell me.

INT: Well, how was he described?

GFC: Well, they described him to me as a small man, about the size of my daddy. You've seen about the size of man my daddy was.

INT: Mm-hum. Did he have a mustache?

GFC: Yes.

INT: That's sort of a family tradition? (Laughter)

GFC: Yeah. (Laughter)

INT: It's a nice one. Well, you say he was dead, your granddaddy was dead, by the time you were born.

GFC: Oh yeah. I don't even remember my grandma, no.

INT: Do you remember her name?

GFC: No, I don't. Somebody asked me out here a little back and I told her. And I just didn't know, I'd forgot it.

INT: Did your dad ever talk about when he first learned how to turn?

GFC: Not too much. The way he learned it as a boy, you know, a'stayin' around of the rest of 'em. You know how boys is? He just picked it up. And that's the way it went.

INT: So when your granddad died, your dad just kind a'took over the business.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Backin' up a little bit, J.D. had a brother, didn't he, that was in pottery out west somewhere.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: W.N. Was that what his initials were?

GFC: Yeah. And he was in Missouri.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Pine Bluff, I think the letter said, didn't it?

GFC: Yeah, I believe it was. And he also had another brother in Georgia. Now, I don't know whether I can find any letters on him or not. I've not got none there. But they's somebody told me, here back, that they seen a van in Georgia, had "Craven Pottery" wrote on the side of it. And that must be some of the same stock. And my brother Charlie's a'goin' to try to look into that, you know. And see what he can come up with.

INT: I wonder if you could write like, the Georgia travel and promotion people, like, you know, State government, and ask 'em if there's a pottery. They might know the address of it. That would be somethin', wouldn't it?

GFC: Wouldn't it though?

INT: Talk about findin' long-lost cousins. (Laughter) So J.D.'s family sort of spread out and took the trade with 'em, didn't they?

GFC: Yeah. In other words, I reckon it was borned in 'em, you know.

INT: Mm-hum. It must have been. Well, did your dad make any changes from the way things had been done?

GFC: No. He still, long as he lived, used a horse to grind his clay and haul up his clay, just like his, course his daddy used the oxen, but, he didn't have no oxen, so he used the horse.

INT: Where did he get his clay?

GFC: Uh, he got it down on his own land, the most of it. And, um, there's a place up yonder towards Asheboro where he got some clay, too. And I was thinkin' about that the other day. I don't know whether they still get clay up there or not.

INT: I think Melvin Owens still gets some clay up towards Asheboro, but I don't know if it's the same pit you're talkin' about.

GFC: They, I bet it is. They called it the Auman pond back then. That sure was good-turnin' clay.

INT: What made it good do you think?

GFC: Well, it was tough and there wasn't a bit of grit in it nor nothin', you know.

INT: Real pure.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: Yeah. That's the best-turnin' clay I ever turned.

INT: well, when did you learn to turn?

GFC: Well, I reckon I could turn some when I's 8, 6 and 8 and 10 years.

INT: Just picked it up by hangin' around the shop?

GFC: Well, when I was a little feller, I had my own little old lathe. And my little old kiln.

INT: Did ya?

GFC: Yeah, my daddy fixed it for me. And when I was about that high, I burnt it and took it out of that little old kiln and sold it the same day. I'd use a poking stick to reach in there and get it by the handles. and I'd bring it out and let it cool and sell it that same day.

INT: Would you! (Laughter) You wanted to make that money didn't you?

GFC: Well, that's just like a boy, you know.

INT: So, it would actually burn, that little kiln?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: You must have been makin' little pieces.

GFC: Yeah. They wouldn't be over that high.

INT: Yeah. Did you ever save any of 'em?

GFC: No, I never did.

INT: Well that's too bad. It would have been nice to have seen one of those. What about your brothers? Did they play with you?

GFC: Well, they's a little too big to mess with me, you know.

INT: Were you the youngest?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: What were they doin' at that time?

GFC: Oh, they was, uh, inside the shop, you know. Helpin' my daddy run the business.

INT: When did, when did you start turnin' seriously, you know, for your dad?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: I reckon 14 or 15 when I got, got out makin' my own clay and mess you know.

INT: Did he put you to makin' one particular size? Or did you just make everything?

GFC: Well, there's so many of this, you know, and so many of that. They vary in sizes from that size, you know, on up. Whatever one sold the best.

INT: How did he, how much was he sellin' his wares for, say, in the '30s?

GFC: Well, it's hard to tell. It wasn't much.

INT: Did he handle the business part of it too, or did your mother do that?

GFC: He did.

INT: He did it all. Did he haul his ware off, too, in wagons?

GFC: No. I heard him tell about haulin' for my granddaddy, but it, he never did haul none of his own. Now that is unless he did before I was big enough to remember, he might.

INT: Well, how did he sell, how did he market his ware, then?

GFC: Well, people come by after it all the time.

INT: He just sold it locally, then?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Was he makin' just stoneware?

GFC: Yeah. That's what he made up till, I don't know what year it was he went into the, this here glazed stuff, you know. That was a whim. Well, I don't remember.

INT: Were you still turnin' for him?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Were you a teenager?

GFC: Yeah. But I reckon two of the best turners that's ever been in this country, I ain't a'sayin' it 'cause they's my brothers, but my brother Ferrell and my brother Charlie, I believe they's two of the best.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Ferrell and Charlie?

GFC: I believe they were.

INT: Did they turn big pieces, too?

GFC: Oh yeah. Oh, they could turn, it didn't make no difference how big it, was.

INT: You were tellin' me how that pot we were lookin' at yesterday, how Ferrell could really bring it up from the bottom.

GFC: Yeah. And not leave it down there. A lot of people leave it down there and have it thick down there and they come off thin up towards the top. But he'll bring his from the bottom on up there. Yeah, he sure was a good turner, I tell you. And, anybody that you'll see will tell you that, too, that knows anything about it.

INT: There were a lot of, you had a lot of brothers and sisters, didn't you?

GFC: No. Well, you might say a lot. Had four brothers and five sisters. They was nine. And there was me.

INT: Who was the oldest?

GFC: My oldest one was my sister Lila.

INT: And who's next?

GFC: Bessie, down, you know, well you've seen the next one.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: And I got a brother up there. You ain't been to see him. He's up there in Westmore.

INT: No, what's his name?

GFC: He's Brack.

INT: Brack? Nope.

GFC: Well, he used to make it, too.

INT: Really? Was he a good turner?

GFC: He did pretty good.

INT: He worked for your dad? Or did he have his own?

GFC: Well, he used to have his own. Right up there close to where he lives now. And I'll tell you where he lives. You know where at the pottery is, I forget one or two. . .

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Westmore?

GFC: Yeah, but there's so many up there now, you know. This is the one that, uh, well, the road down there goes to Jug Town. And this 'un sits right there.

INT: That's Westmore, right on the corner there.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Right on the corner of, mm-hum.

GFC: And, my brother lives right up there on, in that little batch of woods right up there.

INT: There's a house across the road, sort of a frame house sort of similar to this.

GFC: That's him.

INT: Okay.

GFC: You ought to stop by and he might could remember more about my granddaddy than I could. I believe he could remember my grandma. And he might could remember my granddddy. Now I ain't gonna say whether he could or not.
INT: Mm-hum. Well, he was considerably older than you, wasn't he? Quite a few years.

GFC: Yeah. He's, uh, seems to me like he's maybe 81, 82, I don't know. But I bet you he might could give you more information on that than I can.

INT: Did he ever have his own pottery? Or did he always just work with the family pottery?

GFC: Oh, he had him one.

INT: Did he? Right up there?

GFC: Mm-hum.

INT: When did he quit makin' pottery?

GFC: Well, that's hard to answer. He quit way, could a'been in the '30s.

INT: Oh, it's been a long time.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Then he was probably just doin' stoneware, wasn't he?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983
GFC: No.

INT: Salt glaze?

GFC: No. He made, uh, he was doin' both kinds just as good as I know.

INT: He made what?

GFC: He made both of 'em.

INT: Did he?

GFC: Uh-huh. He's the one down there to talk to you about him. You ought to have a chat with him some.

INT: Well, I'll try and do that.

GFC: Uh, he might can remember some of them things away back then that I cain't.

INT: It always helps to get two people talkin' doesn't it?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Well, when did, you worked, you turned pottery when you were a little boy, and when did you stop? Did you stop to go into the Army or anything? Service?

GFC: Not exactly. Let's see. I stopped, I reckon in, I reckon it'd be in the late '30s. And, uh, there wadn't no money much in it back then and I went in a factory over here.

INT: Which factory was that?

GFC: Robbins Mill.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: I stayed in there for 38 years.

INT: So you just retired, what, in '68? Do you ever miss the pottery?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Miss turnin'?

GFC: Well, that's the reason I'm gonna put up my old lathe up here some day and mess with it, you know, just for the fun of it.

INT: I was tellin' Dorothy that you wanted to do that. She wants you to come down and see her and just play around a little bit on her wheel.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: Well, I been aimin' to do that. I go to Asheboro every few days.

INT: Well, please stop by and see her 'cause she really would enjoy that.

GFC: Well, did you tell her anything else about who you talked to, to make that, uh. . .?

INT: Mm-hum.

(Tape stops, then starts)

INT: Your dad used a wood-burnin' kiln, right?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Ground hog? What they call ground hog kiln?

GFC: Yeah. That's all there was back then.

INT: Did he use that kind of kiln all his life? Never went to a, an oil-burnin'?

GFC: No! Nothin' like that.

INT: He'd do some glaze pottery? What colors did he have?

GFC: Well, he had an orange color and, uh, a green and blue and red, he had just about all them there colors. Sometimes he'd mix them colors and take his fingers and flick it like that and make a speckled one. Pretty.

INT: Bet that was pretty. What kind of shapes did he use for his glazed pottery?

GFC: All kind of shapes, uh. Well, all different shapes. He just study 'em up in his head mostly. Or see a picture or somethin' and he'd go from there.

INT: You were still turnin' in the '30s, weren't ya? During the Depression?

GFC: Yeah. I reckon I was.

INT: How did--was pottery sellin' at all during that time?

GFC: Uh, not much. Yeah. It'd sell, but you couldn't get nothin' out of it.

INT: People didn't have money to pay for it?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: No. You'd take a piece about the size of that there thing out there, about 20 cent.

INT: Did you barter?

GFC: I mean and it glazed. And if it'd a been stoneware wouldn't a'been over 10 cents.

INT: Goodness. Did you take things in trade?

GFC: No.

INT: Barter food for pottery?

GFC: No, we had always get the money, what little there was.

INT: Did your dad farm at the same time? Most potters did that, didn't they?

GFC: Yeah. Yeah, we run a pretty big farm. I tell you, it was rough back then.

INT: I reckon it was from what I hear.

GFC: It was rough. You don't even know nothin', and never will know nothin', how rough it was.

INT: Did your dad ever have a kiln blow up?

GFC: Huh-uh. You take an old wood kiln, there wadn't much to blow up.

INT: Never could get 'em hot enough, could ya? The pressure?

GFC: Well, you can get 'em pretty hot, but you see, they had a good outlet, you might say, a chimley (sic) and there wadn't nothin' to blow up.

INT: Mm-hum. Did he still use a mule? He did, didn't ,he, because of that photograph you showed me.

GFC: Well, that's all he'd have, the mule and, uh, he had a old wooden wheel. He wanted things just like they was, you know.

INT: Mm-hum. He wanted to do it the way it'd always been done.

GFC: Yeah. And I take after him about that. That's the way I like to do it. I done all my gardening with a horse up till last year whenever my horse died.

INT: Aw!

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: That's the way I done my gardenin'.

INT: Well, there's a lot to be said for doin' it the way it's been done before.

GFC: Well, I just like it. Old-fashioned way, I like that. I like anything that's old. I even like old automobiles and stuff like that.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: I go to, every time I, every time there's a show, you know, on.

INT: Automobile show?

GFC: Yeah. I love that. It don't interest me a bit, go around looking at.

(Begin Side 2)

GFC: Dog if I know. A clay mill is the one I always know.

INT: And what do they do?

GFC: Well, they's, uh, two boards down there.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: And that's the bottom. And put it in at the top and after it'd get ground, then take the clay out of them boards that falls to the bottom. Then as the mill'd go around, your clay'd wind down, you know.

INT: The clay would go down?

GFC: Yeah. And when you got as much as you wanted, you know, if it was gettin' ahead of you, you could stop the mule and get caught up, and start him up again.

INT: Now, is this where they put the clay after it was dried? After you dried it out in the yard?

GFC: No. It was ground then, then they took it on in the shop.

INT: Mm-hum. It had water--had they added water to it?

GFC: Uh. Everything. Water is added in the box back here. You cain't see the box. It was got right to grind and they ground it and towed it on in there and took it to back of the shop in a moist place, box back there.

INT: Mm-hum. Did they keep it covered up?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: They kept it covered up and, um, damp, so it didn't get
dry.
INT: Mm-hum. Did they have to age it any? Did the clay need to set a while, or could you use it right away?

GFC: Just as quick as you'd get it in there, they'd go to use it.

INT: Did you grind clay every day in this mill?

GFC: Well, just 'cordin' to how they's a'usin' it. Now, it took a heap more gringin' for big jars, stuff like this, you know. It took a lot of clay. And it'd keep Old Bill on the huff a'most of the time.

INT: Poor Bill. (Laughter) I hope he got fed good. I wonder what your dad's thinkin' about? He looks like he's deep in thought, doesn't he?

GFC: Oh, he's studyin' 'bout somethin'.

INT: Was he a quiet man?

GFC: Well, you might say that. He was a workin' man.

INT: Mm-hum. Did he ever take time out to talk to his boys?

GFC: Yeah. Yeah. Back then, though, busy most of the time.

INT: Do you remember this building?

GFC: Oh yeah!

INT: How many, did you just have one wheel in there for turnin'?

GFC: There's two in there.

INT: Two?

GFC: He used one, and my daddy used the other.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: My daddy used the one I got in there. That's the only one he'd use.

INT: Looked like it had storage area up on top.

GFC: Oh, that's, uh, what we call the old fire. And we kept that full up there. And when it'd dry, dry enough to burn, we'd bring it down from up there. And I'd put it in the kiln.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: The kiln was over in this area?

GFC: Yeah. It's right up in there.

INT: Now, what'd your sister--did she do anything around the shop? The pottery shop?

GFC: Oh, she'd painted a good deal. Flower pots. She'd paint apples, big red apples on 'em and um, peaches and stuff like that. They're pretty.

INT: I bet they were. She'd do that with the glazed pottery?

GFC: No. That was paint, just regular paint, what she'd do. I see what you mean. After it was all finished, she'd paint on it.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: I bet that would be pretty.

GFC: You know what that's covered with?

INT: Hm-um. What is the roof made out of?

GFC: Well, my daddy made it. It's boards. They split them boards with a maul and and a axe and stuff like that, and made that roof.

INT: That must have taken hours!

GFC: Yeah, but time didn't mean nothin' back then.

INT: No. But that's a pretty, that's a fairly big building there. And they just layered it, then, huh?

GFC: They made uh, they uh, hewed them logs and, uh,. . .

INT: Guess it was made out of pine, huh?

GFC: Well, everything there, except for a little bit of lumber right up in there on each end, it didn't cost nothin'.

INT: Really. He just made it from the trees on the land.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Nothin' but his labor.

GFC: Yeah. But they didn't count that back then. Yeah, he split them boards to cover it with. And he got them logs off of his land to built it with. So, there's a little bit of lumber on each end. And that was back then, I bet that

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

wouldn't a been over a dollar. And he might a, I suspect he had that sawed off'en that way. Well, that old buildin' I'd say didn't have over ten dollars in it, and not that much, I don't think.

INT: You could really take pride in what you did back then, couldn't ya?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Did he have someone help him with that building, like, you know, they do barn raisin's and people, the neighbors come round and help?

GFC: Uh, now I don't remember that part--whether he had one of them raisin's or not. But I'm a'doubtin' that he did. He was particular with his--he wanted, anything that he'd done, he wanted done just like he wanted it. And, I don't believe he'd a'had a barn raisin' afraid they wouldn't a'put the thing up like he wanted. Now he might a'done it.

INT: Was he a religious man?

GFC: Oh yeah!

INT: What church did--did he go to church?

GFC: Oh, they's a little old country church back over there they call "New Center".

INT: New Center?

GFC: Yeah. That's where he'd go all the time.

INT: Would he take him a little nip?

GFC: Well, I'll tell ya. As far as I know, and as far as I've ever heard, he never did taste it.

INT: Never did.

GFC: No. But his brother, Frank, he sure loved his nip, you know: He'd take it, (sniff) come across his mustache and just grin. (Laughter) But, I don't know if my daddy ever did. I never did know it and nobody else never did know nothin' about it. Now, J.D., they said he'd take his nip. That's his daddy.

INT: Yep. Did Old Bill just finally give it up?

GFC: No, uh,. . .

INT: . . .and die?

GFC: Yeah. But, he lasted a long time. Yeah, he got, uh, he got sharp on that thing.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Did he?

GFC: Oh yeah. When, uh, when they'd all be inside, and he knowed it, he'd stop.

INT: Would he? (Laughter) Wouldn't be anybody out there lookin' at him, would it?

GFC: No.

INT: How long did it take to burn a kiln back then? Did you start it in the mornin'?

GFC: You started early of a morning and it'd take till, I'd say about 5 o'clock of a evening.

INT: How could you--and you added salt to it, of course. What kind of salt did you use?

GFC: Just take your every-day salt, you know.

INT: Mm-hum. How did you know when it was time to add the salt?

GFC: Well, the kiln had flue holes, and when you'd fix hold down in there, a'testin' it, it wouldn't take. It would roll off. Well, all you do then is go and shoot another blast of lighter. And when you got it to where that salt would, it'd take it, you'd see that salt meltin' down, you're fixed.

INT: You knew it was ready then.

GFC: Yeah.

INT: How did you, how do you "send another blast through" as you said. There's a fire in the front of the kiln, I know. You just add more wood?

GFC: Uh, fill it full of lighter. That's what we used to make it. . .

INT: Ah, that's what the lighter's for.

GFC: And the black smoke'd roll, well, you're talkin' about now, it'd burned down. Pitch in again, and if it'd take the salt then, why pour it on. It was done.

INT: Was that one of your jobs? Pourin' it on?

GFC: I've helped do it. But my daddy'd have to be the overseer to see when he. . .

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: . . .was ready?

GFC: . . .when he wanted to do it and when he wanted to quit. Well, if it hadn't a'been, you see, and he'd a'come out wrong, I'd a'got all the blame. (Laughter)

INT: Yes, you would have! (Laughter)

GFC: But like that, you see, I didn't have the blame, the responsibility. I liked it like that.

INT: Let you off the hook, didn't it?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: You must have enjoyed havin' your own little wheel and kiln, too.

GFC: Yeah, I did.

INT: Like bein' like your daddy, wasn't it?

GFC: Well, I had my little old kiln. It was settin' about here.

INT: Mm-hum. How big was it?

GFC: Oh, it wadn't, it wadn't no big thing. It was about that long.

INT: 'Bout four feet?

GFC: Yeah. And about that wide.

INT: Yeah. By, say, foot and a half.

GFC: Yeah, I could--course I's small and I could go in it, though.

INT: Mm-hum. I guess you were the judge then, weren't, you? When to add the salt?

GFC: Yeah. He didn't have, he didn't even have nothin' to do with that.

INT: Yeah! Did he let you keep the money that you made?

GFC: Yeah. I kept it all. You take today, and build that buildin' right there. Now, I couldn't even guess how many thousand dollars it would take, but it'd take several thousand. You know what I mean?

INT: I do. And there aren't many people that could build it from scratch like that.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: No. Not today there ain't.

INT: Hm-um.

GFC: And they wouldn't know how to make the coverin's. They couldn't do that. It'd have to be bought. That's what I call the nearest thing to livin' off of the land, that Dad had.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC; He made all this and it didn't cost nothin'.

INT: This mule didn't have any hames on it, did it?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Did it?

GFC: Right there it did. That's the ones they used to hang their ring jug.

INT: Your dad probably would a'had water in his though, wouldn't he?

GFC: Yeah. Oh, he'd a had a fit to a'caught somebody else's jug a'hangin' on his hame (laughter), that had booze in it!

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: Well, back then there wadn't nowhere to go. There wadn't nothin' to see, and you was bound to go'd off to one place, you know, wadn't nothin' home.

INT: I guess church on Sundays was the only time that you saw other people, wasn't it?

GFC: Yeah. And drive wagons, you know. I never will forget it. I was in church one Sunday, maybe 'bout that high. One of my daddy's mules got loose and run me, oh, I don't know, 'bout pretty near to the garage out there. And I run under the wagon, it strikin' at me, you know, with his feet, tryin' to kill me.

INT: Goodness! That was a mean mule.

GFC: Uh, he got rid of it, I believe the next day.

INT: It probably scared everybody, didn't it?

GFC: Yeah. But like I say, back then, that's about the only time we seen anybody, is when you went to church. And there wadn't nowhere to go nor no nothin'. All there was was eat and sleep and get back on it.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: Were you able to go to school?

GFC: Oh, yeah. I went to school. I walked, uh, two miles, back and forwards, you know.

INT: Mm-hum. Where was the school located then?

GFC: Oh, it was up there t'other way about two mile or so at Westmore.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: Little old two-room school house.

INT: Was your dad pretty strict about his children goin' to school?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: He wanted you to get an education? Well, school sort of, the school system was shorter then, wasn't it? The school year? Didn't you usually go to school when you didn't have to farm. Sort of, in the winter time?

GFC: I just studyin', I believe it was six months.

INT: Six months?

GFC: I believe it was.

INT: Would you have to work in the pottery when you got home from school?

GFC: No. I tell you. See, I's the youngest and I didn't have it quite as rough as the rest of 'em.

INT: Ah, you were the baby in the family. (Laughter) You weren't a little bit spoiled were ya?

GFC: No! (Laughter) But, I, now, you think kids would walk two miles, and it was so cold you couldn't hardly stand it, to go to school?

INT: No way. They don't like to sit out in front of the house waitin' for the school bus.

GFC: No. That little old two-room school house.

INT: One teacher?

GFC: No, there's two teachers. One for the little 'uns and one for the big 'uns.

INT: Who were they? Do you remember what their names were?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: No, it's been too long. Um, there's one thing I do remember. There's three girls in my class and one of 'um was 23 year old and one was 21 I believe, and the other 'un was 17. And, uh, in the fourth grade.

INT: In the fourth grade? I guess they didn't learn too quickly, huh? (Laughter)

GFC: Uh, people didn't learn nothin' back then.

INT: Yeah.

GFC: There ain't nobody much got no education back then. I got to where I could read good and to spell good. I'll spell and read with anybody, but, other than that, I don't know nothin' about no education.

INT: Well, I guess you got as much as you needed, didn't you?

GFC: Well, didn't need none back then. People thought it'd stay like that. But now, if you ain't got a good education, uh, you ain't nothin'! You know, cain't even get a job no nothin'. Remember goin' to school one mornin' with rain just a'pourin'. And there wadn't but two more there. Except me and them two and the teacher.

INT: Did she have class?

GFC: Yeah. Went through with the motion.

INT: Two miles in the rain, you must have been pretty wet by the time you got there.

GFC: Oh, my brother took me in the old car.

INT: Did he?

GFC: Yeah. Old T Model Ford. Did ya ever see one?

INT: Mm-hum. Pictures.

GFC: Them things. They'd go right along.

INT: Do you remember when you dad got the car?

GFC: Yeah!

INT: How'd he feel about that new-fangled invention?

GFC: What?

INT: How did he feel about that new invention, the automobile?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: Oh, he, uh,. . .

INT: Did he trust it?

GFC: No. Old T Model Ford. He bought it [unintelligible]. Give him 300 dollars for it. And paid for it by sellin' them there things right there.

INT: Did he? Paid for it sellin' pots.

GFC: Never will forget it one time, He's a'drivin' and we was a 'got back to the house, near about, and there's a big tree out there and he's a headed right toward that tree and I jumped out.

INT: Did you?

GFC: And skinned my arms all up. And he got out and just beat the tar out of me.

INT: Did .he? (Laughter) You thought, though, "It's the end", didn't ya? (Laughter)

GFC: I believe what made him mad, I's, I's a'doubtin' his drivin'. (Laughter)

INT: Mm-hum. I guess he was a man that had a lot of pride, didn't he?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: What do you remember about your mama?

GFC: Well, not too much to remember. She had a lot of brothers and sisters. They all dead now.

INT: You must a'spent most of your time out with your dad.

GFC: Yeah. Mostly. We done a lot of huntin' together in the wintertime, you know. In fact, we was together about all the time. Outside, you know. That's what I love. Always did love the outside. I got a little old farm back down there. And I go down there and just walk, walk a lot of days. And, I cain't stand to be cooped up in the house.

INT: Never do to live in the city, would it?

GFC: I tell you one thing. If somebody had'a make me live in town, I just soon a'be sent to the penitentiary. That's the way I feel about town.

INT: Mm-hum.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

GFC: Now my brother down there at Raleigh, raised out like I was, and town's where he wants to be. And I don't know what in the world happened to him.

INT: Maybe he likes--maybe he thinks it's simpler livin' in town. You don't have as much to take care of.

GFC: Yeah. Maybe it is. But, I like to get out and look at nature, what nature's done and all that stuff.

INT: Me, too. I live out in the country.

GFC: Do you?

INT: Mm-hum. Yeah. It's real close to Raleigh, but it's out, out in the country. Did your dad, or his dad, your granddad, ever make grave markers?

GFC: No, I don't believe they did. Uh, that one we's talkin' about yesterday, you know, they made 'em down in Missouri.

INT: Mm-hum. W.N.? Well, you know some of the, like around Westmore, I guess it's around Westmore, down that way, anyway, in Moore County, there's, some of the old cemetaries [cemeteries] used to have ceramic, you know, clay grave markers. And I just wondered who made 'em. They're not there any more. Everybody, they've been destroyed. You know, vandals have stolen 'em or broken 'em.

GFC: Yeah. I know my daddy never did make none.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: And I never did hear him say nothin' about his daddy a'makin' any. Course he could have. Probably did back then, you know. For otherwise, they wouldn't a'knowed who was here and who was there and all that.

INT: Mm-hum.

(Tape stops, then starts)

INT: You would remember when people would what?

GFC: I remember when they would come up home all Saturday evenin' with their family and their wagons. They'd put the mules in the stable and feed 'em. Had to stay all the night and go back home the next day. And now, somebody'll run up, get out the car, set down, and about two minutes, "Well, I reckon I better be a'goin "".

INT: Don't visit like they used to, do they?

GFC: No! Don't visit nothin'. I liked it better like it used to be.

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: People just feel like they got to be in a hurry, I guess.

GFC: Yeah. But where're they a'goin'?

INT: I know.

GFC: You could stop half of 'em over here on the road just a'flyin' up and down the road and ask they where they's go in'. Nowhere in particular.

INT: Hm-um.

('rape stops, then starts)

INT: Did any of your sisters ever turn?

GFC: No. No, not even that 'un down yonder did.

INT: Did they ever make any hand-built stuff?

GFC: The one at High Point used to make chickens.

INT: What was her name?

GFC: Clady Ashley.

INT: Clady? Mm-hum.

GFC: She'd make chickens, you know, out of clay. Looked like just like a old chicken, paint 'em and everything.

INT: Did she paint 'em? She was the one that you said painted apples and peaches on the, on the pots, didn't she?

GFC: Yeah.

INT: Bessie was sayin' that she used to make little animals, too. She said frogs and,. . .

GFC: She might. I forgot. Well, other words, I wasn't too big when she left home, you know.

INT: Mm-hum.

GFC: And I just don't know about that.

INT: You were too little to remember.

GFC: ' She probably did. Well, did she know anything about J.D.? Well, she's on up there, you know. She should, did you ask her anything?

Grady Franklin Craven, 10 June 1983

INT: I did. But she didn't--I think her mind's not as good as it was, and she just didn't remember a lot.

GFC: Well, that's what I's a'gettin' at.

(End of Tape)

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Creator : Francis, Michelle A.
Type : Oral Interview: Grady Craven
Studio : Dwight M. Holland
Location : Robbins, North Carolina, United States
Date : June 10, 1983 CE

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Creator :	Francis, Michelle A.
Type :	Oral Interview: Grady Craven
Studio :	Dwight M. Holland
Location :	Robbins, North Carolina, United States
Date :	June 10, 1983 CE